Starts out with some good points about how the leaving the bench rule is stupid... and then he just loses his fucking mind. How can a Larry Bird fan call a player like Bowen Dirty? :lmao
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba
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Starts out with some good points about how the leaving the bench rule is stupid... and then he just loses his fucking mind. How can a Larry Bird fan call a player like Bowen Dirty? :lmao
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba
He's right about his flopping rant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
white superstar lover
Yeah, he was way off on that...he makes it sound like Bowen is some goon who goes out to intentionally hurt everyone he guards. Worse, he makes it sound like Bowen is what's wrong with the NBA. No it's not. He's a hard-nosed, competitive player who busts his a** every night, who had to bounce from team to team until he could prove he deserved to be a starter on a championship level team. That's not what's wrong with the NBA. That's what's RIGHT about the NBA. He plays physical, and certainly goes right up to the edge of the rules, but he's not "cheap".
Simmons only wishes THAT Bowen had played for the Celtics.
This article is 10000000000000000000000000000000000% accurate.
Simmons is a smart dude and the tuck rule is a perfect comparison. And yes, debating if Bowen is dirty is like debating if OJ was a murderer, if the sky is blue, etc.
It's gotten so obvious as not even merit a debate or discourse anymore. More of just a factual statement.
Good article in regards to the bench rule.
another journalist that "just doesnt get it" right?
everyone on pti agrees
everyone on around the horn agees
steve kerr
marc stein
jim rome
ect
ect....
I liked how he said...
"As anyone who's ever played basketball knows, with the exception of clumsy people who probably shouldn't be playing in the first place, there are no accidents on a basketball court. Your feet just don't coincidentally land under someone else's feet as they're shooting a jump shot, and you don't just coincidentally kick someone in the calf as they're going up for a layup or dunk. These things don't just happen. They don't. The only room for error happens when someone's trying to block a fastbreak layup or dunk, takes a roundhouse swipe and inadvertently ends up hitting his opponent's head instead of the ball (like we saw with Matt Barnes when he clocked Matt Harpring Tuesday night). "
Anyone who plays basketball understands how true that is, and how full of shit Bowen is when he acts like its an accident when he does the shit he does.
edit -- inadvertent double post.
Maybe next time the Commissioner should put his disciplinary rulings to a vote of those journalists. While he's at it, he might just go ahead and do one of those nba.com poll-brackets to decide which teams make the Finals. Each of those would be a wonderful idea for the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsbum
Yeah, he nailed this but I'd still want Bowen on my team. If he's going to get away with it why wouldn't you want him on your team?Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
funny how you have to dig for something to knock bowen for. look, he's moved his foot a couple of times. oh no. :jack
So the rule should be changed to accomodate the "instinct" that 20% of the Suns bench couldn't overcome.
Brilliant.
what does sarver say? lol fucking douche.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsbum
Obviously, Marcus Banks, Jalen Rose, Pat Burke, and Eric Piatkowski just don't really care about Steve Nash and his personal welfare.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
If everyone had a vote, the Spurs wouldn't be allowed in the playoffs. Too bad they decide the outcome of the games by playing them instead of conventional wisdom.
oh im not arguing that i wouldnt want bowen on my team. i would love for him to be on the Mavs. while i think he is dirty as hell, he is still the best defender in the league, and a hell of a player to have. but he does do a lot of his shit intentionally.Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
Its not a bad take. You guys need to stop crying when Bowen is called dirty. Whether YOU as a Spurs fan thinks he is dirty or not isn't the point. Bruce Bowen even though you are not going to like this, is considered one of the dirtiest players in the league. BY THE LEAGUES PLAYERS! I'm not saying he is, but the players believe he is, and the thats only going to bleed over into the press and the fans.
The good news for the Spurs however, is that he is also considered one of the best defensive players in the league, and he plays for our team.
you obviously dont play basketball, otherwise you wouldn't say stupid shit like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by violentkitten
Were the suspensions done according to the letter of the rule?Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsbum
Yes . . . so what the fuck is your point?
If you are given a ticket for driving at 60 mph on a highway that only allows you to drive at 55, what the fuck is your defence going to be? That a max of 55 is stupid. You are probaly right, and I would agree with you, but good luck with that defence in front of a judge. You'll be paying for that ticket in no time.
This is the same thing. There has been a rule in place for the last ten years, why should it be applied differently for a Suns player than to any other player in the league?
Because these are the playoffs and Amare and Boris suspended hurts tonights game? Although this is true, it isn't a justification to give your stupid boys a pass.
Because you and some journalists dont like the rule? Buddy, tough luck, it's a rule and rules are there for a reason.
I don't like Amare and Diaw being suspended one bit. But I connot argue against the logic of the suspension.
Your arguments, on the other hand, have no leg to stand on. "The sports journalists don't like the rule" :depressed
And what are they all agreeing on? That it is not fair to your team that this is happening. What would be unfair is if Stern made the exception for your team when teams like the Knicks in 97 had half their team run for the next game for doing the same thing you guys did. How do you justify letting you guys off the hook when those other teams had to pay the same price for the same actions?Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsbum
good article :tu
The thing I found interesting was how concerned he was about Bowen's "dangerous" behavior on the court yet he later talks about the most memorable moments in the glory days of the NBA being cheap shots by some of its most famous stars.
I dont recall hearing Bowen say or even ever seeing him act like something he did was an accident...
He generally walks off like nothing happened just like Horry.
There's a different the plays that he was referencing in that they were overt acts of aggression in response to cheap play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Brickowski
If the Suns assistant coaches would have done their job, there'd be no crying.
And if Nash didn't try to sell it, perhaps his own players wouldn't have rushed to his aid.
The Suns have no one to blame outside of their locker room.
it was amazing how quickly nash recovered after he saw things got out of hand
They never do, but it hasn't stopped them yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I can't wait to see the proposed "Instinct and Intent" corollaries to the bench rule that whiners come up with.
Yet another whining pvssy. Who knew!?
Simmons, go suck on your toilet bowl Celtic, the same team to whom Tim Duncan has lost but once.
Simmons is not saying that Bowen is a problem of the NBA at all, rather a symptom of its nanny like rules. What he is saying is that the NBA is the problem by effectively protecting a player like Bowen with its anti-retaliatory rules. Simmons doesn't want the NBA to handle the problem of Bowen being dirty. He wants the NBA to allow others to handle that problem like was the case back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostofAlfrederickHughes
Does anyone think Bowen would have pulled any of his crap with the old school Pistons or Knicks? Isiah Thomas wanted to **** him up as a coach after his dirty play, what do you think he would have done to Bowen if he had actually been playing instead of coaching that night? He and his teammates would have "corrected" Bowen's behavior. That's Simmons' point....the NBA has effectively allowed situations like this to occur because they don't allow the players to handle dirty play the old fashioned way.
and the moment someone decks bell for a thrown 'bow then the spurs are just being "dirty"...yawn.
Hilarious.
Simmons was being praised as a genius a few days ago when he wrote an article saying how Duncan was one of the top players of all time and maybe the best of the last decade.
Now he's a whining Pu$$y. He's a Suns fan now because he doesnt see thinks the Spurs way?
So Simmons wants more fights.
Brilliant.
I wonder if a white guy had "decked" a black superstar, would there be such a hue and cry in the media? Hmm ...
the league should do away with penalties for going into the crowd as well. hey, it was great when sir charles spit on that little girl. no top 10 list of the greatest moments in nba history is complete without kermit washington's fist rearranging rudy t's face.
ding ding ding we have a winner. the media loves a white superstar.Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanMustGo
Does anyone else think that Bruce is kind of clumsy relative to other NBA players? I mean, he is a strange type of player: He shoots better from the corner compared to straight on, and the year he led the league in 3pt% he shot better from the 3pt line than he did from the FT line.
Most of all, he has to be the hands down NBA leader for least amount of time handling the ball among small forwards. I don't think anyone could disagree that there are times where he just looks awkward on the court.
So, Nash is guarding Bruce by standing right in his face 30 feet from the basket and Bruce tries to go off the dribble. Was anybody else not surprised at all that he ended up kneeing Nash in the groin in this scenario, because I know I wasn't.
Typical Spurs fans...Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjoe
Jackson and Ron-Ron's suspensions in Detriot were too harsh!
That rule has to be reviewed.
that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. not being used to handle the ball up court, and not having control over your body are two COMPLETELY diferent things.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLohaus
Dude, you watch way too much tv. Time for you to get a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsbum
Have you ever seen Mark Madsen play?Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanMustGo
Watch the video. Francis jumped forward into Bowen. It's always interesting when those of you that are critical can't get simple facts correct. Further proof that you are just repeating what you hear from other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver
If you were smarter, you'd be embarassed.
:lmaoQuote:
"NOW THAT'S A F------G FOUL!"
With regard to Bruce getting his feet under people, is it any different than, say, someone planting their feet just outside the arc, beneath an airborne player going to the rim?
Nash is a master of that little puss move.
Simmons' columns have always been taken with a grain of salt. he's flipflopped between the spurs, mavs and suns all season. one month the suns and mavs are saving the NBA, next month the mavs are far inferior to the suns, then duncan is all of a sudden the NBA's savior.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjoe
Isn't it the current thing to bash the Spurs? If you want web hits that's what you publish. The Spurs haven't generated this kind of interest ever. The writers probably figure if they can blow this far enough out of proportion they can milk it all the way to the Finals. If there are enough plays in a playoff series that can be hard or questionable to make the Spurs look dirty then the networks may have found their golden goose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjoe
The article is not just about Bruce Bowen, but also about the pussification of the NBA.
Sunsbum. Ive now heard two of your own phoenix suns players say that however much they may not like the outcome, the rule was implemented fairly.
Jalen Rose and Amare Stoudamire himself have both said this on national media.
Im not sure how old you are, or if you have been that educated, but the National Media talk shows (around the horn, Rome, etc) love to get ratings. They love to be controversial, this whole thing is a big fat cash cow for them.
Id listen to your team...and follow suit.
stop being a looser and start having faith in your damn team. Good luck suns, hope you guys make it a good game.
Sigh, lol. The dirty play I was referring to happened to Jamal Crawford, not Francis. It was the second time Bowen pulled that stunt against the Knicks (Francis was the first) which caused Isiah to lose it with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Now, here is what you look like after reading this..... :oops
It's cool though, we all make mistakes. :)
COMPLETELY different? Aren't they directly related?Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
If not being able to handle the ball well isn't caused by not having enough control over your body (lack of coordination) then what is the reason that a person is a bad ball handler?
And don't say lack of practice because I'm pretty sure that Bowen has practiced dribbling a few times in his life.
WTF are Golden State fans doing here debating whether Bowen is a dirty player?
Link? I'm just interested because I haven't heard Amare say as much. I think most people agree that the rule was implemented correctly, but fairly? That's a different matter and I wasn't aware that Amare or Jalen would've agreed that it was administered fairly. The only thing I've read is that Amare says that Duncan should also be reviewed....doesn't sound like he thinks it was fair at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Patch
That's the most comical thing I've ever seen. They should be down on their knees thanking God that the fake firestorm over the Spurs being dirty has completely obscured the fact that the Warriors are the biggest cheap shot artists in the last ten years.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Anyone remember the foul Matt "prison break" Barnes put on Tony Parker? That one was harder than Horry's foul on Nash.
LOL @ all the pundits losing their mind because it was Steve Nash who got bodychecked :lol
After all, they want Nash to make the finals since they don't want him to be like the only 2-time MVP in NBA history to never sniff the finals, making their back-to-back selection even more idiotic.
:lol :lol :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
i think everyone's jumped on to the anti-spurs bandwagon today. i can't believe that this is the only topic du jour today in the nba and while i really can't stand horry for other reasons, i kind of feel for the other spurs players, hopefully they are quarantined from the media and phoniex atmosphere right now. most spurs fans should just keep in mind that while the spurs are involved in this by virtue of the fact that they happen to be one of the two teams involved in this incident, most of the criticism is really being directed at david stern and the utility of the rule itself.
Matt Barnes is gonna trick someone into giving him a nice contract this offseason. And then he's gonna give them 5 points and 3 rebounds a game while shooting 25% from 3 point land. He's a prime candidate to be this year's Austin Croshere/Jerome James lame duck free agent signing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
That's the most comical thing I've ever seen. They should be down on their knees thanking God that the fake firestorm over the Spurs being dirty has completely obscured the fact that the Warriors are the biggest cheap shot artists in the last ten years.
Homers,Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
I'm not one, so saying that has no effect on me whatsoever. The Warriors have been by far the worst losers of any team in this playoffs. Does that make you feel better?
Austin Croshere. Now that's is one dirty mo fo! just kiddingQuote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
I thought that him and Baron Davis were going to scrap during one of those games.
Let's end this crap once and for all.
I'm not a complete homer. I'll admit that Bruce is a "chippy" player. That's how I'd describe it.
As for Horry, I think anyone that has watched him over the years would say that his foul on Nash was out of character for him.
Manu is a flopper.
THE END. Good night.
All fair points. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Simmons is probably my favorite sportswriter and this article was pretty much dead on as usual. Bowen may be a cheap shot artist, but he is a perrenial defensive player of the year candidate and "in the head' of some of the best offensive players in the league. I'm glad he's a Spur.
He seems to contradict himself about ten times in the article. Is he or is he not in favor of tough, physical play (a la Bowen and Horry)? It seems like he's against it when a Spur does it, but it's "Golden" if Cowens or Parish did it.
I can't speak for Simmons, but the distinction that I believe he was saying is that the stuff that Cowens and Parish did were overt actions because of the cheapshots, whereas Bowen was the one taking the cheapshots and required the overt action.Quote:
Originally Posted by peskypesky
Simmons is a hoser and obviously doesnt know shit about good defense. After the season, Id like to see him say that shit to Bowens face.
And I'd like to see yall call Amare a pussy in front of his face.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan
He's certainly proven that he has no impulse control.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDirtMcGirt
Word. Plus, if the guy you're fighting is 6'10", you're pretty much fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
The stupid thing about Simmons is that if Horry were white and on the Celtics and did the exact same thing, Simmons would be on his hands and knees soaking in the glory of an old school foul.
Nah, he'd lose his surgically repaired knee before he had a chance to take a swing. Big guys are easier to whip.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDirtMcGirt
Coming from real word experience, if a dude is more than five inches taller and over fifty pounds heavier, you better know some kung fu.*Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
*...or just kick him in achilles when he's jumping :lol
About the stupidity of the black and white bench rule, Simmons said EXACTLY what I was saying here yesterday and getting abused mercilessly for. So did Sheridan, and Stein. So maybe I'm not crazy.
As for the rest of the article, I think he's spot on. No doubt, he's too harsh on Bowen, but some of what he says is correct...
I'm gonna get killed around here for saying this, and don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Bowen fan, but he is a little dirty. He pushes the line and sometimes steps over it - not in the supposed Stoudamire tripping case (video shows that was clearly accidental). The knee to Nash was ultra-soft and overblown, but watch his eyes and it was clearly intentional.
No, I think Bruce does grab and push, and so do most of the league, but I definitely think Bruce steps under jumpshooters sometimes - sometimes he's boxing out, but other times he's boxing out far too close to the player and they land on his foot.
Simmons tore shreds off Bruce without giving him any credit for all the fantastic, clean D he plays, but sometimes Bruce can get chippy and stray over the line. Essentially, he's our tough guy, and I'm glad we have him or we'd be soft as shite.
Kill me now.
Thing is with so-called sports "journalism," it's all about the bandwagon. The editors sit around the table and decide what's "real." There's a building buzz that the Spurs are dirty, and this jackass is just piling on in a cowardly and unoriginal fashion.
The real story is much more nuanced, as we all know, but that's not what will grab the casual fans attention.
Clearly the media wants a story in which the Suns are America's Team, and the Spurs invented dirty basketball.
Kinda ironic, isn't it, since for years we've been labeled as Soft.
And the Suns "don't play any defense". What else is new?Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
The media feels like it has to put "labels" on everyone. Everyone fitting into neat little categories makes their life easier I guess.
Simmons is inconsistent. He's always praising the Spurs for old-school play, bashes them now. Within his own article he contradicts himself. First deriding Bowen for playing tough-nosed defense, then lambasting the current defensive tactics of flopping left and right.
I blame this on Pitino, no Celtic fan could remain sane after that era.
Simmons is a hypocrite of the highest order. There are so many contradictions in his article, I don't know where to begin.
1) His "tuck-rule" analogy is a total flip-flop. After it happened he argued that it was a good rule, that it was fairly called, that the Patriots totally deserved to win the game and that anyone complaining about it was a crybaby and a whiner. He even tried to rationalize it, saying if Jon Gruden was less conservative with his play-calling in the 4th quarter, the Raiders would've killed the clock and won the game outright. Now that the Pats have 3 rings (and are favored to win a 4th this year) he's more objective about the whole thing and concedes it's a stupid rule. What a clown.
2) He doesn't like that Bowen is a chippy, dirty player, but defends the good ol' days when players were allowed to beat the hell out of each other. The reason Bowen is effective is because other players hate to play against him. Tim loves Bruce. Ask Isiah what he thought of Laimbeer and Rodman. Ask Magic what he thought of Rambis. Ask Jordan what he thought of first Oakley, then Cartwright, then Rodman. You need gritty, chippy players to win. Is it any wonder that the Suns have more of an edge now because they have Bell on their roster?
3) Speaking of Bell, I found it ironic that Simmons has focused on Bowen and ignored all the liberties that Bell has taken on Manu and Tony over the course of the series. The only difference is our guys don't complain to the media after games.
4) Has he been watching the series at all? Practically every time Tony's covered Nash, we've gotten the better of the matchup. Whenever Bowen's been on him, Nash has destroyed Bruce. One would think that Nash would be begging for Bowen to cover him all game, especially now that so much has been said about Bruce that the refs are targeting him.
5) Simmons has been on the Suns' nuts all year, saying how much he loves how they play, loves their free-flowing offense, and he conveniently ignores that they're the softest team in the NBA. If this team played in the 90s with the Bulls, the Pistons, and the Knicks, they would have the shit beat out of them and been lucky to win 47 games. When Bird's Celtics were hammering the Suns on the boards by 30, Simmons would've been mocking these guys to no end.
6) Finally, I'm getting sick and tired of how much Simmons trashes foreign players. As if American players never tried to exaggerate fouls before 2002. This guy was kissing Manu's butt in '05 and now he slams him at every opportunity. It's gotten to the point that Ginobili could practically have his eye gouged out and people accuse him of flopping. Did Simmons make one mention of the cut under Manu's eye? No. You know why? Because Ginobili doesn't whine like a little girl about the fouls he gets after a game to the press. Even when he's gotten flagrant fouls against him and guys have gotten ejected, like Melo, Manu never said anything bad about anybody. Simmons' rant is both racist and xenophobic. Stop blaming foreigners for everything.
7) Yeah, defenders flop more to draw offensive fouls. So what? Look at all the advantages offensive players have now. They can set moving picks. Defenders can't hand check. The guys can carry the ball on their dribbles like The Professor. Yeah if somebody played like Bell 15 years ago he'd probably get decked. But if somebody dribbled like Tony or AI 15 years ago, they'd commit 30 turnovers a night. Games evolve and rules are interpreted differently over the years. You aren't even allowed to cover receivers in the NFL anymore or pitch inside in baseball. Simmons should grow up.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler
8) Yeah, swear LAST ONE...uh...Simmons sucks.
9) Ok one more...uh....Spurs aren't as bad as everyone is making out.
10) Why stop now? Duncan is great.
11) In closing, David Robinson was a class act.
12) Robert Horry won't be remmembered for this.
13) My favorite movie was "LOTR: Return of the King"
14) I thank you for reading my post.
Sincerely,
DSF.
15) Why is that everytime the Spurs drive to the lane.....
The biggest cheap shot artests in the league for the last 10 years, have been and will be as long as they are coach by Jerry Sloan, the Utah Jazz. You take a poll of the NBA and I GUARANTEE they would say that. Just like Matt Barnes quote, "they seemed to have always caught us retailiating."Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
how many SF's handle the ball much period? about 90% of the ball handling in basketball is done by the PG. i guarantee there are plenty of incredible athletes in the sports world who can do amazing things with their bodies and hands and such, perhaps a WR, but i doubt any NFL WR can handle the ball as efficiently as an NBA PG. and Bowen handles the ball fine. its not like every single time he dribbles, he turns it over or something. he just chooses not to dribble much, because its not what he is supposed to be doing. that is Tony Parker's job. but i guarantee if Bowen dropped into just a local pickup game at a gym or something, he could handle the ball just fine, without a single turnover.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLohaus
yea, the Jazz are a dirty-ass team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que Gee