Spurs vs. Suns Game 5 - Grades

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that says "oh shit Vaughn is coming in" and "Don't even think about shooting Jac......fuck you missed again"

Priceless, Timvp. Duncan's defense earned him an A- though. Five blocks, and every other player in the game for both teams combined for 4.

Everyone else.... errrgggg. Manu gets an A+ for effort but minus 50 points for those loony plays of his that end up with the other Spurs going, "Yep. That's his imitation of Homer Simpson." I'll still take it though, he made some good good good plays down the stretch as well.

I'd knock everyone else's grade down a half step. I can't bring myself to give out that many "B's" on a game that was so sloppy.

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Originally Posted by Xolotl

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that says "oh shit Vaughn is coming in" and "Don't even think about shooting Jac......fuck you missed again"

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That's what you think, with your puny 3 dimensions. Jacque plays in five... thousand. At once. And in all the other ones, he's lighting it up like candles on Hannukah. Just look at his mighty leaping abilities!!

...

The Earth's gravity is very strong here. Jacque must go now.

Yeah...don't let Bonner off light, I know he only played 3 minutes, but in that 3 minutes he had a tremendous positive impact(for the Suns)...


I don't think I've ever seen a player look as bad in his first playoff game as Bonner did...he sucked.

Jacques Vaughn has relased an instructional video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2v2XFYg_Q

"Ginobili!"

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Originally Posted by timvp

Bruce Bowen
Bowen's three-pointer with 36 seconds to go in the game might go down as the biggest shot of his career. It gave the Spurs a lead that they never relinquished. On top of that, he played amazing defense on Nash down the stretch. While that hasn't always been the case this series, he was in top form in the fourth quarter on Nash.
Grade: B+

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Bowen deserves an A, he played so good I'm considering buying his jersey... :clap

Timvp I guess you won't have the time to answer this one but well...
I know you always give your grades / your expectations of the players.
But to be honest expectations can be slightly different from a ST poster to another...
I'd like to know wich grade you'd give to each player concerning your expectations...
Just to quantify the output you're awaiting for each of them.
Messy question maybe but whatever... :p

Congrats to the Spurs team for a game well-played. :clap

Vaughn = Paul Pressy :depressed

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Originally Posted by timvp

Tim Duncan
Duncan had a streaky game but he was a huge part of the win. He struggled early on but recovered on both ends of the court like champions do. Once he started to punish single-team coverage, he forced the Suns to send help. Once the Suns made that adjustment, it opened the floodgates for shots from downtown. His defense near the end of the game was almost perfect. Not the best of Duncan, but good enough.
Grade: B+


Manu Ginobili
Sure, Ginobili had some big turnovers in the fourth quarter. But like I always say regarding Ginobili, as long as he's being aggressive then I'm happy. His 26 points led the way for the Spurs and he hit many huge free throws down the stretch. Also worthy of note were his huge rebounds he snagged at various points in the game and possessions of possessed defense. He's still relying on his three-pointer a tad too much, but no one can fault his effort. Ginobili gave everything he possible could for the Spurs to win.
Grade: B+


Tony Parker
I was proud of the way Parker fought through adversity in this game. His jumper wasn't falling for most of the game and that allowed the Suns to really pack the paint on him. Instead of folding and just depending on others, he kept fighting. Because of that, the Spurs were rewarded with a great effort down the stretch from their point guard. He hit a jumper to tie the game for the first time in the second half. Parker also got the assists on the other final two baskets, three-pointers from Finley and Bowen. Defensively, Parker continued his amazing play. Quietly, he's been the best defender on the team this series.
Grade: B


Bruce Bowen
Bowen's three-pointer with 36 seconds to go in the game might go down as the biggest shot of his career. It gave the Spurs a lead that they never relinquished. On top of that, he played amazing defense on Nash down the stretch. While that hasn't always been the case this series, he was in top form in the fourth quarter on Nash.
Grade: B+


Francisco Elson
Elson looked lost. He had a couple of decent plays but he was a liability when he was on the court. More concentration while on the court would help matters.
Grade: D+


Michael Finley
Finley hit some big buckets and was one of the few Spurs not hesitating on their shot. His defense down the stretch was greatly improved and his will to win was apparent all game. He missed some shots but overall, Finley did his part.
Grade: B-


Brent Barry
As good as Barry was in Games 3 and 4, that's how bad he was in Game 5. Honestly, I'm not totally sure he made the flight to Phoenix. No points, one assists and one rebound in 16 minutes is not exactly what the Spurs had in mind coming off his last two performances. Timid Barry was back.
Grade: D


Fabricio Oberto
Early on, it seemed like Oberto was the only Spur who wanted to win. He came ready to play and ready to take home the victory. You couldn't say that for too many Spurs in the beginning of the contest. However, Oberto became a liability when the Suns went to their mini-ball lineup.
Grade: B-


Robert Horry
Horry's defense on Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw was fantastic. He kept both players in check single handedly. He didn't get many open shots tonight, but he made all the ones he took. Although he was seventh on the team in plus/minus at +0, his impact went beyond the numbers.
Grade: A


Jacque Vaughn
If it's possible to play a worse six minutes, I'd like to see it. Well, as long as it's on the other team. Vaughn was literally the best player for the Suns. It's gotten to the point that it's hard to watch when Vaughn is in the game. Please for the love of all that is holy, please stop shooting the ball, Jacque. Please?
Grade: D


Pop
It was a tale of two halves for Pop. In the first half, he was getting outcoached and was being stubborn. The lineup the Suns put on the court screamed for small ball from the Spurs. Yet Pop decided he was going to let Shawn Marion go for Wilt Chamberlain numbers in the first half. Luckily, Pop came to his senses and put a lineup out there that could compete with what the Suns had to play with. He leaned heavily on his stars in the second half, which was the right call. He also learned from the last game and did a better job of conserving timeouts.
Grade: C+

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again...timvp: A+! :clap

Question: Manu and Oberto played great together. But, who's starter to next game whit Amare? both boys? :wtf

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Originally Posted by whottt

Yeah...don't let Bonner off light, I know he only played 3 minutes, but in that 3 minutes he had a tremendous positive impact(for the Suns)...


I don't think I've ever seen a player look as bad in his first playoff game as Bonner did...he sucked.

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Yeah, I had a Vaughn-ish type cringe when Bonner entered the game. His defense isn't near playoff ready. Maybe some point next year he'll start to understand the defensive concepts better.

Right now, all I gotta say is thank the basketball gods for Oberto. Without Oberto, this team would be dead in the water. Most teams would laugh at the thought of playing Elson or Bonner ... yet that's a reality for San Antonio.

Oh and this wasn't Bonner's first playoff game for those of you scoring at home.

Yeah Oberto has been unreal.

Hopefully he can bring it big one more game, and then get him some rest.

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Originally Posted by lebomb

Vaughn = Paul Pressy :depressed

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Vaughn makes Avery Johnson look like Steve Nash.

If you look at plus/minus per minute, Oberto has been far and away the best Spur in the playoffs.

Here are the plus/minus stats from last night.

Game 5 Plus/Minus
Tony Parker +22
Michael Finley +12
Fabricio Oberto +10
Bruce Bowen +4
Manu Ginobili +2
Matt Bonner +1
Tim Duncan -4
Brent Barry -4
Francisco Elson -11
Jacque Vaughn -17

We should start a SpursTalk donation drive to send Elson and Vaughn to Cancun early. The level of suckage those two guys impose on a game of basketball in six minutes is unreal.

Tony Parker and Michael Finley with the highest plusses?

How can that be!!!

They are the two biggest chokers on the team though....

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Originally Posted by timvp

Tony Parker +22
Michael Finley +12
Fabricio Oberto +10
Bruce Bowen +4
Manu Ginobili +2
Matt Bonner +1
Tim Duncan -4
Brent Barry -4
Francisco Elson -11
Jacque Vaughn -17

We should start a SpursTalk donation drive to send Elson and Vaughn to Cancun early. The level of suckage those two guys impose on a game of basketball in six minutes is unreal.

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:lmao:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Yeah Oberto has been unreal.

Hopefully he can bring it big one more game, and then get him some rest.

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Oberto's not getting any rest. He'll be counted on again against Utah if the Spurs close out one more.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Yeah, I had a Vaughn-ish type cringe when Bonner entered the game. His defense isn't near playoff ready. Maybe some point next year he'll start to understand the defensive concepts better.

Right now, all I gotta say is thank the basketball gods for Oberto. Without Oberto, this team would be dead in the water. Most teams would laugh at the thought of playing Elson or Bonner ... yet that's a reality for San Antonio.

Oh and this wasn't Bonner's first playoff game for those of you scoring at home.

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Ok well, there went that excuse...Bonner's appearance left me never wanting him to step foot on the court during a playoff game again. I actually felt myself begin to choke just watching him.

And btw, how come you all of a sudden started taking it easy on Elson?

Last night was easily his worst game as a Spur IMO. F easily.

And Barry didn't get to run any plays...

Surely after 3 years you've noticed...

Barry as a spot up shooter = not very good. Lost. Especially when he's getting inconsistent minutes.


Barry acting as the point or as the initiator of the offense = the smartest ball handler on the team, confident, and IMO, the best passer. Found.


Barry sucks coming in cold off the bench...and I kind of have a problem with the way Pop does this to Shooters...it's what fucked Kerr up too. Kerr went from getting big minutes and being counted on by Jordan to not getting off the bench except in desperation....took him 5 years to acclimate to that role.



RE: Oberto

I've been on the Oberto bandwagon from day 1. Longer than about 90% of the Argentines. I was the guy wanting us to sign Oberto over Rasho...I wanted him over Scola(I still think he gives the team what it needs more than Scola will). I'm not saying he's a HOF'er or anything...I just know what we are going to get from most C VS what we pay them.

Oberto is a bargain when you consider the level he is capable of playing at.

I do concede though...he doesn't bring it every game though, and neither does any other C we've had...or Horry...but he brings it in big games.

One other thing on Oberto...I don't think the Spurs brought him over to gauge Scola...I think they brought him over to gauge Javtokas.

Javtokas and Oberto met in the finals of the ULEB Cup and Oberto outplayed him...Javtokas' team won, and Oberto was Spurlike from the FT line, but he got to the line about 15 times against a guy many considered to be one of the best defensive C's in Europe.

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Originally Posted by travis2

Oh, but doesn't small ball lose games?

:rolleyes

One would hope this game would put that particular fallacy to rest, but I just know some people here will continue to watch games with a mini-TV in their ass...

Nice call, timvp...

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you're clearly an idiot. no one says small ball is always a bad idea. against the mavs, it clearly was. against the suns lineup last night, it clearly wasn't. obviously you don't understand basketball.

:lmao

you slay me...

and yes, there are people here who say that small ball is always bad.

Read. Learn.

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Originally Posted by travis2

Oh, but doesn't small ball lose games?

:rolleyes

One would hope this game would put that particular fallacy to rest, but I just know some people here will continue to watch games with a mini-TV in their ass...

Nice call, timvp...

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Retard:

The Spurs didn't play small ball at all last season until the playoffs. It then became the new Spurs style for 100 percent of the last five games of the series against the Mavericks. A series the Spurs lost, by the way because they couldn't stop anyone and scrambled on defense.

This year, they've played the lineup a lot, so the team is prepared when it's used in stretches and short bursts or against a team that has two bigs sitting out. Elson played more minutes last night than Rasho and Nazr did in the last five games of the Mavs series. Finley's plus minus when he's on the floor in small lineups is proof that he's figured out his role on the defensive end of the small lineup.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Retard:

The Spurs didn't play small ball at all last season until the playoffs. It then became the new Spurs style for 100 percent of the last five games of the series against the Mavericks. A series the Spurs lost, by the way because they couldn't stop anyone and scrambled on defense.

This year, they've played the lineup a lot, so the team is prepared when it's used in stretches and short bursts or against a team that has two bigs sitting out. Elson played more minutes last night than Rasho and Nazr did in the last five games of the Mavs series.

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Dickhead:

Tell that to the ones who STILL bitch every time small ball is used.

It was the right call then (and I concede the Spurs didn't have as much experience then) and it was the right call last night.

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Originally Posted by travis2

Dickhead:

Tell that to the ones who STILL bitch every time small ball is used.

It was the right call then (and I concede the Spurs didn't have as much experience then) and it was the right call last night.

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It wasn't the right call then. Those of us that said so at the time were right. The 63 win Spurs lost despite home court advantage because they couldn't play defense, the one thing that's won them three championships, and the small lineup couldn't rebound. This year's version of smallball does both much better because the players have actually got some experience with it.

Some of us bitch when small ball is used in an attempt to outscore the opponent rather than play defense. That's usually when Pop plays the lineup for the last three quarters of a game. He hasn't done that at all during the post season. It's not a coincidence that the Spurs are up 3-2.

If Pop just decides to run the triangle starting tomorrow night the Spurs will lose to the Suns. Will it be a bad idea? Phil Jackson has won everywhere with it.