Why the hate on Stern?

Yeah, the rule is stupid, but everyone's hating on him because he followed the proper guidelines. I don't understand what everyone is griping about. Why does everyone blame Stern and not Amare or the Suns' 7 coaches that failed to keep him on the bench? You didn't see anyone from the Spurs running onto the court during the altercation.

IMO, Stern would've been a bigger pussy if he had let it go. Everyone knows he likes Phoenix more because they bring him better ratings. I personally think it took more balls to do what he did (even if he did pussy out and not travel to Phoenix, but with the way Sun fans are calling in bomb threats, who could blame him?). Anyone agree?

Because no one likes the Spurs other than us. The Suns are the "saviors" of basketball, remember?

Because some people tend to bitch and moan when things don't do their way.

i agree with Stern's ruling, and no matter what anyone will tell you when you see your teammate go down like Nash did (even though it was just a hard, old school foul and he did embellish after the fact) you react the way amare and diaw did. In the heat of the moment i would've done the same thing. Most of, if not all, the blame falls on the asst. coaches for not coralling amare and diaw

Because it's pretty assinine to hate on the Spurs because their players are morons. And they can't hate on their players for being morons. So they hate on Stern for following the rules - because he clearly doesn't understand how important Amare/Diaw are/were to winning this series and it's unfair they weren't there for a pivotal game.

It's not Stern's fault. He didn't make the rule, the owners did. Changing the rule doesn't come from him, it comes from the owners. Sarver should have forseen Stoudamire and Diaw jumping from the bench and did something about it.

Stern is the commissioner, not dictator.

Why not hate on Stern.

I certainly do.

I'm not a Stern fan at all...

Only one's that liked his decision were Spurs fans. I want to see Spurs win he series, but not like this. Cheap shit. Realistically this series should be 3-2 Suns after watching the game last night. Spurs barely squeaked by with 2 key players out on the Suns. Spurs can't feel good about that any way you spin it.

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Originally Posted by easjer

Because it's pretty assinine to hate on the Spurs because their players are morons. And they can't hate on their players for being morons. So they hate on Stern for following the rules - because he clearly doesn't understand how important Amare/Diaw are/were to winning this series and it's unfair they weren't there for a pivotal game.

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LOL! Yeah, I agree 100% Spurs players are MORONS! Just like their FANS!

:tu

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Originally Posted by 1SUNSFAN

LOL! Yeah, I agree 100% Spurs players are MORONS! Just like their FANS!

:tu

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:lol calling Spur players morons when you have Amare on your team

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Originally Posted by mardigan

:lol calling Spur players morons when you have Amare on your team

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Another Moron... it was A SPURS fan that called your players morons... I was just quoting and agreeing with her. MORON!

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Originally Posted by 1SUNSFAN

Another Moron... it was A SPURS fan that called your players morons... I was just quoting and agreeing with her. MORON!

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How did that vagina-plasti work out for you?

Because he rewarded Horry's cheapshot by swinging the series in the Spurs favor. The suspensions were moronic. Is not like they went out there throwing punches. I find it almost comical that Stern tried to deflect criticism about his decision by throwing the owners under the bus saying is thier rule. But Game 5 is over the Spurs should be concerned that they managed to just get by and win the game. The Spurs should have won this game by 10-15 points.

I still find it funny that due to the actions of two players, the entire Spurs team, coaching staff and fan base are all dirty morons.

Generalize much?

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Originally Posted by 1SUNSFAN

Another Moron... it was A SPURS fan that called your players morons... I was just quoting and agreeing with her. MORON!

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how did it feel watching this series alleged "dirty" player sink that heartbreaking three to seal the game? awwwww

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Originally Posted by ratm1221

Only one's that liked his decision were Spurs fans. I want to see Spurs win he series, but not like this. Cheap shit. Realistically this series should be 3-2 Suns after watching the game last night. Spurs barely squeaked by with 2 key players out on the Suns. Spurs can't feel good about that any way you spin it.

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No one liked his decision. All of us wanted Amare and Diaw playing, especially after the crying that's been going on lately.

Thing is, though the Spurs "barely" squeaked by, the Suns probably gave the Spurs a harder time without Amare and Diaw then with. The Suns crowd was totally amped and the Suns played inspired ball. They had many chances to beat us and blew a 16 point lead. The Spurs couldn't hit jack shit in the first half but still managed to play good defense and took a come from behind win with Manu leading the way. I'd say we feel pretty damn good about our win.

I think people are really down playing the suspension of Horry. He is our first big off the bench and a big part to running small ball effectively and he's our smartest player. The Spurs' big men (outside of Oberto) played like shit in the first half and Timmy only played good on the offensive end for 4 minutes in the third.

The suspensions hurt both sides, and Spurs fans wanted to beat the Suns at full strength. You're kidding yourself if you think all this is our fault. The Spurs are not a dirty team and the Suns, minus Nash and Thomas, are a bunch of pussy ass whiny bitches. Imagine if they had played the Nuggets in the 2nd round with Evans nut grabbing people, Melo clobbering people and girly punching, Camby hacking people, Nene clubbing people, and Iverson and Blake flopping everywhere, along with Najera. Suns fans don't know what physical play is.

The greatest commissioner in pro sports since Pete Rozelle. His reaction the last few days just further proves that to me. I'd be really annoyed if the commissioner just ignored a very clear rule with a mandatory penalty just because everybody wanted that team to win more than the other team. This is really what it boils down to. Most of the country wants David Stern to cheat for the Suns just because they are the run and gun team against the boring old Spurs. It would be better for ratings and probably would make a lot of money for the league if he just did that and fucked the Spurs over. Who would care other than Spurs fans? Stern instead chose to look long term and see that the rule is there for a reason, that Diaw and Amare broke the rule that was specifically created to prevent violent, bench-clearing brawls that bring the bigots out of the woodwork to criticise the NBA and send endorsement dollars elsewhere. In an age where everyone accuses the NBA of playing favorites or fixing outcomes, he steadfastly refused to do it when the majority of the sporting world basically told him they wanted him to do it "just this once".

David Stern is God.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The greatest commissioner in pro sports since Pete Rozelle. His reaction the last few days just further proves that to me.

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:clap

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Because he rewarded Horry's cheapshot by swinging the series in the Spurs favor. The suspensions were moronic. Is not like they went out there throwing punches. I find it almost comical that Stern tried to deflect criticism about his decision by throwing the owners under the bus saying is thier rule. But Game 5 is over the Spurs should be concerned that they managed to just get by and win the game. The Spurs should have won this game by 10-15 points.

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clearly you just started watching basketball this decade when the NBA became the most pussified professional sports organization ever, so i don't blame you.

We probably wouldn't even have the NBA as we know it if it hadn't been for Stern. The league was seriously going down the tubes financially when he came on the scene and was even in danger of losing TV contracts. The public perception was that the NBA was just a bunch of drugged out thugs and their image was horrible. Corporate sponsors were abandoning in droves.

Not everything that Stern has done is wrong. If he hadn't got it straightened out we might be watching the occasional NBA broadcast on ESPN2 sandwiched between rodeo and bowling...

Its a good rule that keeps shit in check. Rules are fine with everyone until they break them. All this talk and disgust about the rule these few days, I'm wondering where everybody who hates it was when it was affecting players from teams not named Phoenix?

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Because he rewarded Horry's cheapshot by swinging the series in the Spurs favor. The suspensions were moronic. Is not like they went out there throwing punches. I find it almost comical that Stern tried to deflect criticism about his decision by throwing the owners under the bus saying is thier rule. But Game 5 is over the Spurs should be concerned that they managed to just get by and win the game. The Spurs should have won this game by 10-15 points.

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Did Horry force Amare and Diaw to leave the bench?

No?

I didn't think so.

What reason did Amare and Diaw have for leaving the bench other than to start some shit? Were they going to give Nash medical assistance? No. Were they going to go to Horry and say "Now Robert, that just wasn't nice and you owe little Stevie an apology"? No.

Horry's play was dirty. Bowen's ball shot was dirty. I'll give you those things. But no one put a gun to your 2 resident moron's heads and say "GET ON THE COURT!!!"

They wanted to retaliate. Plain and simple.

I put this question in another post and maybe it will get answered here.

Why do the Suns feel Stoudemire and Diaw are above the rules?

Serious question.

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Originally Posted by samikeyp

I put this question in another post and maybe it will get answered here.

Why do the Suns feel Stoudemire and Diaw are above the rules?

Serious question.

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I read that in another thread, as well.

And, like you, I'd like to know the answer.

I thought I would feel good about Phoenix getting screwed, but I actually feel bad for them.

In case anyone didn't watch the game, the Suns almost won without Amare and Diaw. They controlled almost the ENTIRE GAME. They just choked it away at the end -- just like the Spurs did in game four.

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Originally Posted by samikeyp

I put this question in another post and maybe it will get answered here.

Why do the Suns feel Stoudemire and Diaw are above the rules?

Serious question.

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Its not even just the Suns that feel that way. They wonder why athletes do stupid shit off the court/field its because people feel that they are always above the law.

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Originally Posted by samikeyp

I put this question in another post and maybe it will get answered here.

Why do the Suns feel Stoudemire and Diaw are above the rules?

Serious question.

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Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

The Suns didnt get screwed by anyone except their two dumb ass players. Other than that, they got a call that sealed game 4, they got one of the Spurs best rotation guys suspended 2 games, and they got the media on their side. If tweedle dee and tweedle dum had been smart, it would have been a landslide victory

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Originally Posted by gino>yourlife

i agree with Stern's ruling, and no matter what anyone will tell you when you see your teammate go down like Nash did (even though it was just a hard, old school foul and he did embellish after the fact) you react the way amare and diaw did. In the heat of the moment i would've done the same thing. Most of, if not all, the blame falls on the asst. coaches for not coralling amare and diaw

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So it's not reasonable to expect grown men to sit down and shut up when they know doing otherwise will screw their team over?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

In case anyone didn't watch the game, the Suns almost won without Amare and Diaw. They controlled almost the ENTIRE GAME. They just choked it away at the end -- just like the Spurs did in game four.

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D'Antoni should have played Rose and Banks in the game. I think Nash played too many minutes and down the end he just ran out of energy. Valient effort but not enough.

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

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Considering he supended Ewing for much less I would say yes

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

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The punishments have been consistent since the rule was created.

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

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Yeah, he would've. Right now, LeBron vs. The Nets isn't generating jack shit for ratings versus the Suns. Stern would love a Phoenix and Cleveland Finals, but rules are rules.

The ruling had nothing to do with what Horry did. I understand the frustration and I don't think anyone should've been suspended, except maybe Bell for escalating the situation, but the rule is the rule. Horry didn't force Diaw and Stoudemire to go running onto the court. You need to look at the players and assistant coaches for not holding them back. Ultimately, what Horry did was wrong, yes, but what Amare and Diaw did cannot be blamed on him. They know what they did was against the rules, and they broke them. They have to live with the consequences.

The rule has been there for around 12 years people. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by samikeyp

I put this question in another post and maybe it will get answered here.

Why do the Suns feel Stoudemire and Diaw are above the rules?

Serious question.

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WHat's even more shocking is how much of the sports media thinks the Suns are above the rules, seemingly just because they are playing the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Amare_32

Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

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Well, because David Stern applied the rule exactly the way it's written, you now know 100 percent that anyone that did what Amare did is going to be suspended. Your gripe is that what Amare did hurts the Suns, but you don't have the balls to place the blame in the right place. The Suns got a gift with Horry's suspension. If Amare and Diaw had stayed on the bench, you'd have gotten a huge advantage. Too bad for them. Maybe they'll learn to follow the rules from now on, especially since they know the commissioner isn't going to cheat just to give them a victory.

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Originally Posted by mardigan

Considering he supended Ewing for much less I would say yes

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Yep. People are still suggesting that Stern fixed the lottery for Patrick Ewing, so if he's going to suspend the golden child of the biggest market in the NBA, prior to a huge showdown with Michael Jordan, he's going to suspend the first team all-nba center and feel good story of the 2007 season.

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

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Ok lets put it this way. If it had been LeBron instead of Amare would Stern had done the same thing? My gripe is that the ruling severly affect the Suns for what Horry did. I did not even want Horry suspended. A fine would have suffice. You don't potentially taint and influenced the outcome of a series when niether player did anything other then check on Nash.

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He should have done the same thing. You can't bend the rules for anyone.

Now I think the rule sucks and I think it should be changed but it is the rule...I just don't get why those players and their fans think the rule shouldn't apply.

I swear if I hear one more person cry for the Suns I am going to go crazy. I don't care about either team but as a basketball fan I am sick of all of this crying for the Suns. You need to blame Amare and Diaw for this as they didn't follow the rule that you can't leave the bench and as stupid as that rule may be you still have to follow it. There are many stupid rules at my job that I don't agree with at all but I have to follow them or get fired. The majority of the league do not seem to have a problem following this rule. People fall hard all the time in basketball and you don't see the benches clearing. Amare started all of this by crying to the media that the Spurs play dirty and rough and now the media has taken on the attitude of the Suns calling the Spurs dirty and rough. This is playoff basketball and all games have this type of atmosphere but because it is everyones favorite team they are crying over it. What is the NBA coming to?

Suns are jsut mad because things haven't gone their way this series-they are used to having things go their way. They are looking for a scapegoat, and Stern/Spurs/Horry provide that scapegoat to fill in the gap of their shortcomings. Even after Game 1, they were saying the refs screwed the Suns, if Nash was in they would have won; hell, even ANALYSISTS, who are supposed to be UNBIASED were saying the Spurs won because of the refs. It's always like that in sports. They did it to the Mavs last year too (even though we did get a lot of bad calls, we still had PLENTY of opportunites and we squandered them badly). What I want to know is if Phoenix is so good, then why have they not won the series yet? Fact is, the Spurs have executed fairly well this series and have had some amazing plays. Also, they have had some luck/breaks-Nash leaving the game? Stoudemire/Diaw? None of it is their fault, though. But as David Robinson and dozens of other experienced players will tell you, sometimes you get lucky breaks on the way to a series victory/title. We should take them because we got NONE last year.

I knew there were going to be problems in this series when there wasn't one Suns fan who was grateful that the officials just ignored the blood rule to let Nash score five points at the end of game 1.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

We probably wouldn't even have the NBA as we know it if it hadn't been for Stern. The league was seriously going down the tubes financially when he came on the scene and was even in danger of losing TV contracts. The public perception was that the NBA was just a bunch of drugged out thugs and their image was horrible. Corporate sponsors were abandoning in droves.

Not everything that Stern has done is wrong. If he hadn't got it straightened out we might be watching the occasional NBA broadcast on ESPN2 sandwiched between rodeo and bowling...

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Gimmee a break. A guy like Stern will always get credit for things he didn't do from the media.

The NBA was revived by three people.....Magic, Bird, and one of the greatest if not the best sportsman ever in Jordan. Stern was just along for the ride. And the proof of that is that the NBA has been on a steady decline now since Jordan left the Bulls.

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And the proof of that is that the NBA has been on a steady decline now since Jordan left the Bulls.

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Yeah, they are making so much less money....

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And the proof of that is that the NBA has been on a steady decline now since Jordan left the Bulls.

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Jordan was the saving grace of basketball during that time because other than him the rest of the league sucked back then. The league as a whole is much better now in my opinion aside from all the recent whining of teams and the media.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

The NBA was revived by three people.....Magic, Bird, and one of the greatest if not the best sportsman ever in Jordan. Stern was just along for the ride. And the proof of that is that the NBA has been on a steady decline now since Jordan left the Bulls.

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Those of us old enough to remember watching the Magic and Bird NBA remember doing so on tape delay late at night, and you could only see the conference finals and the finals. There was no TNT, no TBS, no ESPN, no NBATV, no prime time games, no weekend games, not even really much mention of it in the sports reports outside of the towns that had local teams. There were no giant endorsement deals, no corporate sponsorships, no luxury boxes and many NBA players actually had off-season jobs to supplement their income. That's all David Stern, sparky.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yeah, they are making so much less money....

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Originally Posted by ObstructedView

Those of us old enough to remember watching the Magic and Bird NBA remember doing so on tape delay late at night, and you could only see the conference finals and the finals. There was no TNT, no TBS, no ESPN, no NBATV, no prime time games, no weekend games, not even really much mention of it in the sports reports outside of the towns that had local teams. There were no giant endorsement deals, no corporate sponsorships, no luxury boxes and many NBA players actually had off-season jobs to supplement their income. That's all David Stern, sparky.

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Source:

"The end of the NBA on NBC
“ For one last time, you've been watching the NBA on NBC. ”
—Bob Costas, on the network's last broadcast in 2002.


When NBC Sports' contract with the NBA expired in 2002, the broadcast rights were passed to ABC, which began airing games the next season. NBC had made a four-year, $1.3 billion bid in the spring of 2002 to renew its NBA coverage, but the league instead made six-year deals worth $4.6 billion with ESPN, ABC, and TNT. In the last four years of the final contract, NBC lost $300 million dollars. NBC only offered $325 million a year compared to ESPN's $400 million.

Whereas NBC normally televised 33 regular games a year, ABC would generally air fewer than twenty regular season games a year. According to Commissioner David Stern, the reduced number of network telecasts was at the NBA's own request since the NBA believed that they would get a higher audience for a single game (in contrast to NBC's tripleheaders). From 2002 to 2006, the NBA's ratings on broadcast television (ABC) have dropped almost a full ratings point (from nearly a 3.0 average rating to just above a 2.0 rating). NBC averaged a 5.5 average rating during the 2002 NBA Playoffs. ABC averaged a 3.3 average rating for the 2005 NBA Playoffs.

In response to the impending loss of NBA coverage, NBC Entertainment president Jeff Zucker said:

“ We lost football two years ago, and we stayed a strong No. 1. We lost baseball, and we stayed a strong No. 1. Now we're about to lose basketball, and I believe we'll stay a strong No. 1. The fact is, it's had no impact on our prime time strength. . . NBC can now program all of Sunday nights without going around basketball. I think that's a huge advantage for us. We haven't been able for the last several years to put a program at 8 o'clock (such as "American Dreams") because we've had the NBA. ”

NBC Sports chairman Dick Ebersol had this to say:

“ The definition of winning has become distorted. If winning the rights to a property brings with it hundreds of millions of dollars in losses, what have you won? When faced with the prospect of heavy financial losses, we have consistently walked away and have done so again. ... We wish the NBA all the best. We have really enjoyed working with them for more than a decade to build the NBA brand.[3] ”

NBC Sports replaced the Sunday afternoon single games and doubleheaders of the NBA on NBC with games of The AFL on NBC in February 2003, which lasted until the conclusion of their contract in 2006."



Well, the ratings and losses to NBC wouldn't agree that the NBA is on an upward trend. In fact, it is in a decline like I said (more evidence of NBA declining ratings and popularity). If Stern gets credit for making the NBA great, then be consistent and tar and feather him when it goes into a decline, like it is in now.

The expansion of cable access across America was a much bigger reason for the NBA's success in reaching more households then Stern since they needed programming to fill up their tv lineups. I also didn't buy Air Jordan's back in the day because of David Stern. Nike was a far, far better marketer of the NBA than Stern ever was.

Perhaps you should read my quote again. Have someone help you with it if you can't figure it out.

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Yeah, they are making so much less money....

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Those of us old enough to remember watching the Magic and Bird NBA remember doing so on tape delay late at night, and you could only see the conference finals and the finals. There was no TNT, no TBS, no ESPN, no NBATV, no prime time games, no weekend games, not even really much mention of it in the sports reports outside of the towns that had local teams. There were no giant endorsement deals, no corporate sponsorships, no luxury boxes and many NBA players actually had off-season jobs to supplement their income. That's all David Stern, sparky.

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exactly.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Perhaps you should read my quote again. Have someone help you with it if you can't figure it out.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yeah, they are making so much less money....

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Who is "they"? The NBA? The networks? The players? The owners? The networks aren't making more money with declining ratings that's for sure. Now that there is a cap, the players aren't making as much as they use to relatively. So we are left with the NBA and the owners "...making so much less money" according to you. Not saying it isn't true, but please post some corroboration to back up your point.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

When NBC Sports' contract with the NBA expired in 2002, the broadcast rights were passed to ABC, which began airing games the next season. NBC had made a four-year, $1.3 billion bid in the spring of 2002 to renew its NBA coverage, but the league instead made six-year deals worth $4.6 billion with ESPN, ABC, and TNT. In the last four years of the final contract, NBC lost $300 million dollars. NBC only offered $325 million a year compared to ESPN's $400 million.

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Hmm. I don't know where you went to school, but last I checked, 4.6 billion dollars over six years is more than twice as much as 1.3 billion dollars over 4 years. When the NBA can't find anyone to bid on a TV contract let me know.

If Stern can change the type of ball used during the season, why not modify the rules in a situation like this?

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

Who is "they"? The NBA? The networks? The players? The owners? The networks aren't making more money with declining ratings that's for sure. Now that there is a cap, the players aren't making as much as they use to relatively. So we are left with the NBA and the owners "...making so much less money" according to you. Not saying it isn't true, but please post some corroboration to back up your point.

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David Stern isn't the president of NBC. David Stern is the commissioner of the NBA. Try to stay with the topic here, I know you're getting owned, but you can't just change the subject to get out of it.

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Originally Posted by pooh

If Stern can change the type of ball used during the season, why not modify the rules in a situation like this?

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Why couldn't he just award the game to the Suns? Why not just put the Lakers in the finals? If you don't want rules, then just say so, but don't bitch when your team gets fucked.

I don't like Stern because he seems to want to remove emotion from the game. I don't remember fighting killing the league back in the 80's when it was the most popular. I also don't like how Stern concentrates so much of his attention internationally when we need a stronger movement at home. And most of all, I hate how he tries to market superstars (Wade, Kobe, and LeBron) instead of TEAMS.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Why couldn't he just award the game to the Suns? Why not just put the Lakers in the finals? If you don't want rules, then just say so, but don't bitch when your team gets fucked.

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Neither one is my team. My team got royally fucked in the "malace at the palace", but that was the regular season, not the playoffs.

In the circumstance which is this playoff series, Amare and Boris should've just gotten fined and that was it. The intregity of the series has been tainted due in part to what has happened.

Stern immediately went on the defensive yesterday, yelling at Dan Patrick and trying to state his case, when the man was too chicken to show up last night for game five. He's a commissioner whose been in power too long (23 yrs now) it's time for someone else to assume the mantle and run the league to where you get a decent outcome, etc. The longer he stays in there, the more things like this, will continue.

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Originally Posted by EssaySpur1001

Yeah, the rule is stupid, but everyone's hating on him because he followed the proper guidelines. I don't understand what everyone is griping about. Why does everyone blame Stern and not Amare or the Suns' 7 coaches that failed to keep him on the bench? You didn't see anyone from the Spurs running onto the court during the altercation.

IMO, Stern would've been a bigger pussy if he had let it go. Everyone knows he likes Phoenix more because they bring him better ratings. I personally think it took more balls to do what he did (even if he did pussy out and not travel to Phoenix, but with the way Sun fans are calling in bomb threats, who could blame him?). Anyone agree?

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Many people lack accountability. They'd rather make excuses and point fingers instead of assuming responsibility. It makes for a weak psyche. People can never learn from their mistakes if they don't accept it was a mistake on their part.

The only ones to blame for their stupidity is themselves.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

Who is "they"? The NBA?

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Yes, genius. They is the NBA.

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Originally Posted by pooh

Neither one is my team. My team got royally fucked in the "malace at the palace", but that was the regular season, not the playoffs.

In the circumstance which is this playoff series, Amare and Boris should've just gotten fined and that was it. The intregity of the series has been tainted due in part to what has happened.

Stern immediately went on the defensive yesterday, yelling at Dan Patrick and trying to state his case, when the man was too chicken to show up last night for game five. He's a commissioner whose been in power too long (23 yrs now) it's time for someone else to assume the mantle and run the league to where you get a decent outcome, etc. The longer he stays in there, the more things like this, will continue.

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Decent outcome? Kinda like in the NFL where's those players run around killing people, getting busted for drugs, starving animals.
Yeah thats a decent outcome. People are so stupid and shallow to not see the real meaning behind this rule. And these players who break them, any player, knows what is allowed and not allowed. They get paid millions of dollars and what is asked of them during their careers is a fair tradeoff. After they are done, the can do whatever the hell they want. Period!!

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Originally Posted by pooh

Neither one is my team. My team got royally fucked in the "malace at the palace", but that was the regular season, not the playoffs.

In the circumstance which is this playoff series, Amare and Boris should've just gotten fined and that was it. The intregity of the series has been tainted due in part to what has happened.

Stern immediately went on the defensive yesterday, yelling at Dan Patrick and trying to state his case, when the man was too chicken to show up last night for game five. He's a commissioner whose been in power too long (23 yrs now) it's time for someone else to assume the mantle and run the league to where you get a decent outcome, etc. The longer he stays in there, the more things like this, will continue.

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Another "Impartial Observer."

Your team and the Suns got fucked by players who couldn't control themselves. Your and sunfans' lame attempt to infantalize grown men by saying they can't be expected to control themselves in return for millions of dollars is pathetic.

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Originally Posted by EssaySpur1001

Yeah, the rule is stupid, but everyone's hating on him because he followed the proper guidelines. I don't understand what everyone is griping about. Why does everyone blame Stern and not Amare or the Suns' 7 coaches that failed to keep him on the bench? You didn't see anyone from the Spurs running onto the court during the altercation.

IMO, Stern would've been a bigger pussy if he had let it go. Everyone knows he likes Phoenix more because they bring him better ratings. I personally think it took more balls to do what he did (even if he did pussy out and not travel to Phoenix, but with the way Sun fans are calling in bomb threats, who could blame him?). Anyone agree?

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Stern made the right decision based on how the rule is written. My only problem with him was him trying to make the public believe that he had "no power" to do otherwise :rolleyes and how he distanced over & over from all of it (during interviews) by referring to it as the owners rule. Overall, Stern is a damn good commissioner (one of the best ever in any sport).

So you're saying Stern should be able to arbitrarily ignore a black-letter rule, and furthermore be forced to use that power when enough people on the internets say he should?

Too funny.

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Originally Posted by OldDirtMcGirt

I don't like Stern because he seems to want to remove emotion from the game. I don't remember fighting killing the league back in the 80's when it was the most popular. I also don't like how Stern concentrates so much of his attention internationally when we need a stronger movement at home. And most of all, I hate how he tries to market superstars (Wade, Kobe, and LeBron) instead of TEAMS.

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Great post.

Stern in the Patrick interview yesterday unbeliveably said the rule was needed to, "....prevent the players from killing each other". I'm really surprised no one brought up just how insulting a statement that was to NBA players. But hey, they are "thugs" and "gang-bangers" so any rule to keep them from "fighting to the death" is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So you're saying Stern should be able to arbitrarily ignore a black-letter rule, and furthermore be forced to use that power when enough people on the internets say he should?

Too funny.

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No, I'm saying he can do anything he wants for what he believes is the good of the league. That's what the owners pay him for. Like I said before, he made the correct call. I'm not questioning that.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

Great post.

Stern in the Patrick interview yesterday unbeliveably said the rule was needed to, "....prevent the players from killing each other". I'm really surprised no one brought up just how insulting a statement that was to NBA players. But hey, they are "thugs" and "gang-bangers" so any rule to keep them from "fighting to the death" is a good thing.

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Just like you say NBA players are animals and incapable of controlling themselves despite ten years of evidence to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by mabber

No, I'm saying he can do anything he wants for what he believes is the good of the league. That's what the owners pay him for. Like I said before, he made the correct call. I'm not questioning that.

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The owners made the rule for the good of the league. Stern enforced the rule for the good of the league.

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Originally Posted by mabber

Stern made the right decision based on how the rule is written. My only problem with him was him trying to make the public believe that he had "no power" to do otherwise :rolleyes and how he distanced over & over from all of it (during interviews) by referring to it as the owners rule. Overall, Stern is a damn good commissioner (one of the best ever in any sport).

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David Stern doesn't change the rules of the game. That's a fact. I don't really expect a Mavericks fan to know anything about basketball, but go to NBA.com and look up the board of governors and the competition commitee. Perhaps you are different from the other Mavs fans and actually have the capability of educating yourself.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The owners made the rule for the good of the league. Stern enforced the rule for the good of the league.

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Right. I guess you've been arguing against people that think he did the wrong thing so long that you're not reading what I said. I just thought it was humorous in several of his interviews that he said he didn't have "the power" to rule any other way. I'll say it again..."HE MADE THE CORRECT CALL". I'm not arguing that.

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Originally Posted by pooh

Neither one is my team. My team got royally fucked in the "malace at the palace", but that was the regular season, not the playoffs.

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How exactly did your team get fucked? Your players ran into the stands and started arbitrarily beating up fans. Nevermind. You aren't worth my time.

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Originally Posted by mabber

Right. I guess you've been arguing against people that think he did the wrong thing so long that you're not reading what I said. I just thought it was humorous in several of his interviews that he said he didn't have "the power" to rule any other way. I'll say it again..."HE MADE THE CORRECT CALL". I'm not arguing that.

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Can you give me an example of Stern's nullifying a black-letter rule like this?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Can you give me an example of Stern's nullifying a black-letter rule like this?

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Nope.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

Great post.

Stern in the Patrick interview yesterday unbeliveably said the rule was needed to, "....prevent the players from killing each other". I'm really surprised no one brought up just how insulting a statement that was to NBA players. But hey, they are "thugs" and "gang-bangers" so any rule to keep them from "fighting to the death" is a good thing.

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Ask Rudy T if his life was in danger when he was lying on the floor after having been punched so hard that spinal fluid was draining into his mouth. Those are the biggest strongest men on the face of the planet. You do not want them throwing punches at each other.

Again, why is this so hard for you to understand?

What's funny is that the rule that Amare broke probably saved him from a lengthy suspension. What would have happened if he'd gotten to Horry?

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Originally Posted by mabber

Nope.

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So he doesn't seem to be pretending.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Ask Rudy T if his life was in danger when he was lying on the floor after having been punched so hard that spinal fluid was draining into his mouth. Those are the biggest strongest men on the face of the planet. You do not want them throwing punches at each other.

Again, why is this so hard for you to understand?

What's funny is that the rule that Amare broke probably saved him from a lengthy suspension. What would have happened if he'd gotten to Horry?

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in answer to the last part, we would've had WWE a few days earlier. :) no big deal.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Just like you say NBA players are animals and incapable of controlling themselves despite ten years of evidence to the contrary.

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HUH????? Dude, are you so hard up for trying to "own" me that you can't even recognize sarcasm? Good grief man. I'll just close by saying good day to you.

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Originally Posted by mabber

Right. I guess you've been arguing against people that think he did the wrong thing so long that you're not reading what I said. I just thought it was humorous in several of his interviews that he said he didn't have "the power" to rule any other way. I'll say it again..."HE MADE THE CORRECT CALL". I'm not arguing that.

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Thats a complete seperate issue altogether. Its apple and oranges. Of course he has the power per say but that does not mean he is going to disrupt everything and change a rule that has been in place for a while on a whim. It has to be looked at the end of the season. Does any other sports league ie the NFL, NHL MLB change their rules on a whim? In MLB if a player comes out of the dugout its an automatic one game suspension.

But all of a sudden now everyone wants the rule changed. These players are NOT ABOVE THE LAW. They all got the proper punishment in that scenario.

btw, I am not arguing with you, I'm merely using your quote as reference.

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Originally Posted by judaspriestess

Thats a complete seperate issue altogether. Its apple and oranges. Of course he has the power per say but that does not mean he is going to disrupt everything and change a rule that has been in place for a while on a whim. It has to be looked at the end of the season. Does any other sports league ie the NFL, NHL MLB change their rules on a whim? In MLB if a player comes out of the dugout its an automatic one game suspension.

But all of a sudden now everyone wants the rule changed. These players are NOT ABOVE THE LAW. They all got the proper punishment in that scenario.

btw, I am not arguing with you, I'm merely using your quote as reference.

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Thank you, that's all I've been trying to say.

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Originally Posted by pooh

Neither one is my team. My team got royally fucked in the "malace at the palace", but that was the regular season, not the playoffs.

In the circumstance which is this playoff series, Amare and Boris should've just gotten fined and that was it. The intregity of the series has been tainted due in part to what has happened.

Stern immediately went on the defensive yesterday, yelling at Dan Patrick and trying to state his case, when the man was too chicken to show up last night for game five. He's a commissioner whose been in power too long (23 yrs now) it's time for someone else to assume the mantle and run the league to where you get a decent outcome, etc. The longer he stays in there, the more things like this, will continue.

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Good post!

I agree 100%... I felt bad for the Pacers getting more penalized in that fight when the Pistons and their fans are the ones that started it. I guess thug play and dirty play gets rewarded in the NBA. Good lesson to teach the kids.

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Originally Posted by judaspriestess

In MLB if a player comes out of the dugout its an automatic one game suspension.

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It may be written like that, but it's not applied. You see bench clearing fights all the time in baseball games, if they gave everyone a one game suspension for each time the benches were emptied, there would be several forfeits during the season.

It's time that rule needs to be modified to an extent. If you don't get into it, then you shouldn't be suspended. I agree that if you do get involved, yes...a fine and or suspension is warranted.

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Originally Posted by pooh

It may be written like that, but it's not applied. You see bench clearing fights all the time in baseball games, if they gave everyone a one game suspension for each time the benches were emptied, there would be several forfeits during the season.

It's time that rule needs to be modified to an extent. If you don't get into it, then you shouldn't be suspended. I agree that if you do get involved, yes...a fine and or suspension is warranted.

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I just dont see the point in changing such an easy and simple to follow rule

Amare ran so far he got the attention of one of the officials who had to tell him to get back. That's involvement under any definition of a rule. Unless you just ignore it altogether there's no change in his punishment.

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Originally Posted by ImpartialObserver

HUH????? Dude, are you so hard up for trying to "own" me that you can't even recognize sarcasm? Good grief man. I'll just close by saying good day to you.

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Keep working on that BIG MARKET CONSPIRACY!

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Amare ran so far he got the attention of one of the officials who had to tell him to get back. That's involvement under any definition of a rule. Unless you just ignore it altogether there's no change in his punishment.

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Well, do you run to see an accident? If you go to see what's going on, are you tossed into jail?

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Originally Posted by pooh

It may be written like that, but it's not applied. You see bench clearing fights all the time in baseball games, if they gave everyone a one game suspension for each time the benches were emptied, there would be several forfeits during the season.

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Are you trying to use baseball as an example for basketball to follow?

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It's time that rule needs to be modified to an extent. If you don't get into it, then you shouldn't be suspended. I agree that if you do get involved, yes...a fine and or suspension is warranted.

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How the hell can anyone codify "getting into it"?

What is so difficult about staying near the bench so you can make a $5000 - $256,000 just for showing up the next game?

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Originally Posted by pooh

Well, do you run to see an accident? If you go to see what's going on, are you tossed into jail?

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Are you paid $5000 to sit by the road?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Are you trying to use baseball as an example for basketball to follow?How the hell can anyone codify "getting into it"?

What is so difficult about staying near the bench so you can make a $5000 - $256,000 just for showing up the next game?

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I used baseball cause another poster brought it up. They said that in MLB if you leave the bench you're automatically suspended, which isn't true.

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Originally Posted by pooh

Well, do you run to see an accident? If you go to see what's going on, are you tossed into jail?

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This is called a strawman argument. You said the rule should state that if you get involved you get suspended, and I pointed out that Amare would still be suspended. You got owned, don't change the subject. Are you man enough to own up to it? If not, then you're a puss like Amare.

how bout thinking like you guys arent fans of the team? how bout switching what happened to the suns on to yourselves..... hypothetically speaking, what if pat burke leveled tony parker? and drew tim duncan and manu ginobili to step onto the court.... think with your brains you stupid fuck cock sucking faggot spurs fans....... it was on some unfair bullshit......

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Originally Posted by Fillmoe

how bout thinking like you guys arent fans of the team? how bout switching what happened to the suns on to yourselves..... hypothetically speaking, what if pat burke leveled tony parker? and drew tim duncan and manu ginobili to step onto the court....

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I would accept the punishment and not be a douche about it, unlike you.

Tim and Manu should know better. They are paid millions of dollars to know better.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This is called a strawman argument. You said the rule should state that if you get involved you get suspended, and I pointed out that Amare would still be suspended. You got owned, don't change the subject. Are you man enough to own up to it? If not, then you're a puss like Amare.

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You didn't read what I posted, I said IF they get involved then a fine and OR a suspension IS warranted.

Read before you type next time ok? I respect your right to type an opinion, just get it right ok?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I would accept the punishment and not be a douche about it, unlike you.

Tim and Manu should know better. They are paid millions of dollars to know better.

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yah i bet you would........ and not a single spurs fan would make a thread about it on spurstalk talking about how it was bullshit...... get the fuck outta here with that shit........ BE REAL WITH YOURSELF IF YOU AINT GONNA BE REAL WITH ME!

and "mr know better that gets paid millions" stepped onto the court after elson gotta shitted on by jones.......

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Originally Posted by pooh

I used baseball cause another poster brought it up. They said that in MLB if you leave the bench you're automatically suspended, which isn't true.

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I believe you are mistaken, the last two fights in MLB the players were suspended.

THE POINT IS, the NBA is not going to change the rule on a whim dude, get it? understand? comprende? don't try to throw yet another red herring into your pointless argument.

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Originally Posted by Fillmoe

yah i bet you would........ and not a single spurs fan would make a thread about it on spurstalk talking about how it was bullshit...... get the fuck outta here with that shit........ BE REAL WITH YOURSELF IF YOU AINT GONNA BE REAL WITH ME!

and "mr know better that gets paid millions" stepped onto the court after elson gotta shitted on by jones.......

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Duncan on the court during no altercation=no suspension, AMare and Diaw running 20 feet towards an altercation=suspension. How hard is that to understand. Its the easiest fucking rule to follow ever, and if the Spurs had done it, I would be pissed at them for being so fucking stupid

define altercation? whats an altercation and what isn't? is a verbal altercation an altercation? like i said BULLLLLLLLSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

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Originally Posted by Fillmoe

hypothetically speaking, what if pat burke leveled tony parker? and drew tim duncan and manu ginobili to step onto the court

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They will be suspended, you'll be in here rubbing it in, and no amount of complaining will prevent it from happening.

Google Derek Anderson and Juwan Howard. The Spurs didn't leave the bench, douche. DA's collarbone was broken in a completely unnecessary takedown.

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Originally Posted by Fillmoe

yah i bet you would........ and not a single spurs fan would make a thread about it on spurstalk talking about how it was bullshit...... get the fuck outta here with that shit........ BE REAL WITH YOURSELF IF YOU AINT GONNA BE REAL WITH ME!

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I'm sure plenty of spurfans would be bleeding vaginas like you. Jst not me.

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and "mr know better that gets paid millions" stepped onto the court after elson gotta shitted on by jones.......

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If he left the bench area, he's lucky he didn't get suspended. Would've been nobody's fault but his.

Don't leave the bench area -- get $213,557 and play for your team. Seems pretty sweet for Tim.

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Originally Posted by Fillmoe

define altercation? whats an altercation and what isn't? is a verbal altercation an altercation? like i said BULLLLLLLLSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

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I think you and me both know what a altercation is, like Horry throwing a bow at Bell. Elson and JJ didnt even look at each other, JJ was running back down the court while Elson was still laying on it. Stop making excuses for two idiots just because you hate the Spurs

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Originally Posted by pooh

You didn't read what I posted, I said IF they get involved then a fine and OR a suspension IS warranted.

Read before you type next time ok? I respect your right to type an opinion, just get it right ok?

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Amare got involved. You said "if you don't get into it, you shouldn't be suspended." Amare got into it. The official had to tell him to get off the floor. He would have been suspended.

But don't worry, I already knew you weren't man enough to admit it.

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Originally Posted by mardigan

I think you and me both know what a altercation is, like Horry throwing a bow at Bell. Elson and JJ didnt even look at each other, JJ was running back down the court while Elson was still laying on it. Stop making excuses for two idiots just because you hate the Spurs

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i dont hate the spurs.... i called this series to the spurs in 6 before it even started..... but now after all the bullshit.... SUNS in 7

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Those of us old enough to remember watching the Magic and Bird NBA remember doing so on tape delay late at night, and you could only see the conference finals and the finals. There was no TNT, no TBS, no ESPN, no NBATV, no prime time games, no weekend games, not even really much mention of it in the sports reports outside of the towns that had local teams. There were no giant endorsement deals, no corporate sponsorships, no luxury boxes and many NBA players actually had off-season jobs to supplement their income. That's all David Stern, sparky.

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Sorry I don't buy it. The entire sports industry has profited from massive cable expansion, new sports venues, tech advancement and increased discretionary income. To single Stern out as some kind of PR marketing genius goes way too far. Stern's sarcastic response to the fan media regarding this issue insulted every NBA customer outside of San Antonio and has now made him the issue.

Stern's sarcastic response to an entire country that wanted him to cheat to screw a team that nobody likes or wants to see outside of San Antonio after all the accusations of fixing games that he's had to endure all these years is completely justified. You guys are all but asking him to fix the series since it started. The Spurs already got fucked by having a guy suspended two games for a foul that wasn't all that hard. The Spurs already got fucked by the officials allowing a guy with blood gushing out of his face to step onto the floor and score five points. The sports world has been trying to get Bowen suspended for stepping on the back of Amare's heel and for clearing out space on Nash.

Fuck all of you if you don't get it. Amare and Diaw got what they deserved, and if Horry planned it all along, his jersey should be retired in San Antonio. I've spent the last two days completely destroying you guys with the most simple logic, and it's clear that most people don't even have the guts to admit that they just want their team to win at any cost.