Why are we small market again?

So... here is a list of the largest 50 cities in the US in order and the teams they have.

New York - Knicks/Nets
Los Angeles - Lakers/Clippers
Chicago - Bulls
Houston - Rockets
Philadelphia - 76ers
Phoenix - Suns
San Antonio - Spurs
San Diego - none
Dallas - Mavs
San Jose - none
Detroit - Pistons
Indianapolis - Pacers
Jacksonville - none
San Francisco - GS Warriors
Columbus - none
Austin - none
Memphis - Grizzlies
Baltimore - Wizards*
Fort Worth - Mavs*
Charlotte - Bobcats
El Paso - none
Milwaukee - Bucks
Seattle - Supersonics
Boston - Celtics
Denver - Nuggets
Louisville - none
Washington, DC - Wizards
Nashville - none
Las Vegas - none
Portland - Trailblazers
Oklahoma City - none
Tucson - none
Albuquerque - none
Long Beach - none
Atlanta - Hawks
Fresno - none
Sacramento - Kings
New Orleans - Hornets
Cleveland - Cavaliers
Kansas City - none
Mesa, Ariz - none
Virginia Beach - none
Omaha - none
Oakland - GS Warriors*
Miami - Heat
Tulsa - none
Honolulu - none
Minneapolis - Timberwolves
Colorado Springs - none
Arlington - none

That places us at 7th... not very small when we are 2.5 times bigger than the Atlanta metropolitan area.

I mean can someone explain why San Antonio is considered small market?

No football team? :p:

Too many Mexicans.

It's not incorporated city size; it's entire metropolitan area; SA metro. isn't much bigger, relatively, than SA proper.

Those aren't MSA areas. That's your answer.

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Originally Posted by 101A

It's not incorporated city size; it's entire metropolitan area; SA metro. isn't much bigger, relatively, than SA proper.

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City: 1.2 million

MSA: 2 million

Not a huge gap but not small potatoes either.

Here are the MSAs (as of 2000, but there has not been a dramatic change in SA's relative ranking since then). In a decade or so they will combine SA and the Austin-Round Rock MSAs and then things will look quite different.

United States
Metropolitan Statistical Areas (2000 Census)

1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA2/ 18,323,002
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12,365,627
3 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9,098,316
4 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE 5,687,147
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 5,161,544
6 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5,007,564
7 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD 4,796,183
8 Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land, TX 4,715,407
9 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 4,452,557
10 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 4,391,344
11 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 4,247,981
12 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 4,123,740
13 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 3,254,821
14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 3,251,876
15 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 3,043,878
16 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 2,968,806
17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2,813,833
18 St. Louis, MO-IL 2,698,687
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD 2,552,994
20 Pittsburgh, PA 2,431,087
21 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 2,395,997
22 Denver-Aurora, CO1/ 2,179,240
23 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH 2,148,143
24 Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN 2,009,632
25 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 1,927,881
26 Kansas City, MO-KS 1,836,038
27 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville, CA 1,796,857
28 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 1,735,819
29 San Antonio, TX 1,711,703
30 Orlando, FL 1,644,561
31 Columbus, OH 1,612,694
32 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1,582,997
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1,576,370
34 Indianapolis, IN 1,525,104
35 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 1,500,741
36 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 1,375,765
37 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC 1,330,448
38 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA 1,316,510
39 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro, TN 1,311,789
40 Austin-Round Rock, TX 1,249,763
41 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1,205,204
42 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY2/ 1,170,111
43 Louisville, KY-IN 1,161,975
44 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 1,148,618
45 Jacksonville, FL 1,122,750
46 Richmond, VA 1,096,957
47 Oklahoma City, OK 1,095,421
48 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 1,052,238
49 Rochester, NY 1,037,831
50 Salt Lake City, UT 968,858

I think "market" often refers to purchasing power and other economic indicators rather than population size.

"Small Market" in these terms doesn't having anything to do with population, it has to do with TV market. San Antonio is the 7th largest city by population, but it's the 37th (or maybe 39th) largest TV market.

^What do you mean? People in San Antonio don't watch TV?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Testing

^What do you mean? People in San Antonio don't watch TV?

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They don't have/watch TV, comparatively.

Here's the numbers from 2004.
http://www.mediainfocenter.org/compare/top50/#tv

San Antonio is still 37th as of the 2006-07 TV season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_media_market

Do we need more tv stations then?

the following are the top metro areas in the u.s. according to the latest estimates for 2007
1.new york 22,000,000
2.los angeles 18,000,000

3.chicago 9,800,000
4.washington-baltimore 8,300,000
5.boston 7,500,000
6.san francisco-oakland 7,300,000
7.dallas-ft worth 6,500,000
8.philadelphia 6,400,000
9.houston 5,800,000
10.atlanta 5,600,000
11.miami 5,500,000
12.detroit 5,400,000
13.phoenix 4,200,000
14.seattle 4,000,000
15.minneapolis-st.paul 3,500,000
16.denver 3,000,000
17.san diego 2,950,000
18.cleveland 2,900,000
19.st. louis 2,900,000
20.tampa bay area 2,700,000
21.orlando-daytona beach2,700,000
22.pittsburgh 2,400,000
23.sacramento 2,400,000
24.charlotte 2,300,000
25.portland 2,200,000
26.cincinnati 2,200,000
27.kansas city 2,050,000
28.indianapolis 2,000,000
29.san antonio 2,000,000

Most of those places are using CSA populations while SA's there is just a MSA population ranking. If SA were given a CSA we'd be around 15th on that list between Seattle and Minn.

I have 5 tv's..should I turn all of them on when the Spurs play, then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

They don't have/watch TV, comparatively.

Here's the numbers from 2004.
http://www.mediainfocenter.org/compare/top50/#tv

San Antonio is still 37th as of the 2006-07 TV season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_media_market

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So if we are not watching much TV how did we make the fattest city list that one time.

Just how do they calculate media market size anyways?

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Originally Posted by Buddy Holly

Most of those places are using CSA populations while SA's there is just a MSA population ranking. If SA were given a CSA we'd be around 15th on that list between Seattle and Minn.

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What City would San Antonio could combine with to put them between Seattle and Minneapolis? I highly doubt San Antonio metro has over 3.5 million unless you want to go ahead and add Austin which is 80 miles away. Besides, San Antonio is not big enough to have a CSA. There's nothing to combine.

Well then it makes more sense if you go by TV market rating... that answers my question.
Thanks Kori!!

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Originally Posted by mrcoon29

I have 5 tv's..should I turn all of them on when the Spurs play, then?

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Originally Posted by CubanMustGo

Here are the MSAs (as of 2000, but there has not been a dramatic change in SA's relative ranking since then). In a decade or so they will combine SA and the Austin-Round Rock MSAs and then things will look quite different.

United States
Metropolitan Statistical Areas (2000 Census)

1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA2/ 18,323,002
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12,365,627
3 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9,098,316
4 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE 5,687,147
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 5,161,544
6 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5,007,564
7 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD 4,796,183
8 Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land, TX 4,715,407
9 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 4,452,557
10 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 4,391,344
11 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 4,247,981
12 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 4,123,740
13 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 3,254,821
14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 3,251,876
15 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 3,043,878
16 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 2,968,806
17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2,813,833
18 St. Louis, MO-IL 2,698,687
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD 2,552,994
20 Pittsburgh, PA 2,431,087
21 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 2,395,997
22 Denver-Aurora, CO1/ 2,179,240
23 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH 2,148,143
24 Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN 2,009,632
25 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 1,927,881
26 Kansas City, MO-KS 1,836,038
27 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville, CA 1,796,857
28 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 1,735,819
29 San Antonio, TX 1,711,703
30 Orlando, FL 1,644,561
31 Columbus, OH 1,612,694
32 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1,582,997
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1,576,370
34 Indianapolis, IN 1,525,104
35 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 1,500,741
36 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 1,375,765
37 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC 1,330,448
38 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA 1,316,510
39 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro, TN 1,311,789
40 Austin-Round Rock, TX 1,249,763
41 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1,205,204
42 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY2/ 1,170,111
43 Louisville, KY-IN 1,161,975
44 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 1,148,618
45 Jacksonville, FL 1,122,750
46 Richmond, VA 1,096,957
47 Oklahoma City, OK 1,095,421
48 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 1,052,238
49 Rochester, NY 1,037,831
50 Salt Lake City, UT 968,858

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Watch out for the Clash of Titans....Which city will take over San Marcos/New Braunfuels first, San Antonio or Austin? San Antonio should capture Boerne/Bulverde area within the next coming years. Okay, now to my point. The reason SA has such a large metro population is due to city boiunderies. Northside communities such has Stone Oak used to not be apart of Metro San Antonio. Metro San Antonio now stretches to the northern most part of Bexar County, engulfing most of the smaller communities which would make up the suburbs. I guess we figured, hey, their Spurs Fans' too, why not just include them into the town. More people to pay for our new arena....Crafty...huh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StylisticS

What City would San Antonio could combine with to put them between Seattle and Minneapolis? I highly doubt San Antonio metro has over 3.5 million unless you want to go ahead and add Austin which is 80 miles away. Besides, San Antonio is not big enough to have a CSA. There's nothing to combine.

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To be honest with you, I've lived in Seattle, but I find it difficult to imagine it being larger than San Antonio. Even with the inclusion of Tacoma. It must be all those damn boat houses. I always forget about the boat houses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

Watch out for the Clash of Titans....Which city will take over San Marcos/New Braunfuels first, San Antonio or Austin? San Antonio should capture Boerne/Bulverde area within the next coming years. Okay, now to my point. The reason SA has such a large metro population is due to city boiunderies. Northside communities such has Stone Oak used to not be apart of Metro San Antonio. Metro San Antonio now stretches to the northern most part of Bexar County, engulfing most of the smaller communities which would make up the suburbs. I guess we figured, hey, their Spurs Fans' too, why not just include them into the town. More people to pay for our new arena....Crafty...huh?

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Metro SA is an eight county area.

I'm not sure how you're using the word metro but the MSA of SA is eight counties that include the town/cities of New Braunfels, Boerne, Seguin, Bulverde, Spring Branch, Canyon Lake, Floresville, etc.

ive thought about this b4 also and i guess the TV market thing makes since...................Considering that i had 2 different places in SA and both of them had stolen cable when i moved In...not to mention my in laws home had Free cable also.......oh yeah and my uncle had free cable for 3 years after i moved out of his place, b4 time warner finally disconnected it. :lol

Its also teh fact that our per capita income sucks here as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CubanMustGo

Here are the MSAs (as of 2000, but there has not been a dramatic change in SA's relative ranking since then). In a decade or so they will combine SA and the Austin-Round Rock MSAs and then things will look quite different.

United States
Metropolitan Statistical Areas (2000 Census)

1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA2/ 18,323,002
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12,365,627
3 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9,098,316
4 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE 5,687,147
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 5,161,544
6 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5,007,564
7 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD 4,796,183
8 Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land, TX 4,715,407
9 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 4,452,557
10 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 4,391,344
11 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 4,247,981
12 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 4,123,740
13 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 3,254,821
14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 3,251,876
15 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 3,043,878
16 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 2,968,806
17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2,813,833
18 St. Louis, MO-IL 2,698,687
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD 2,552,994
20 Pittsburgh, PA 2,431,087
21 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 2,395,997
22 Denver-Aurora, CO1/ 2,179,240
23 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH 2,148,143
24 Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN 2,009,632
25 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 1,927,881
26 Kansas City, MO-KS 1,836,038
27 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville, CA 1,796,857
28 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 1,735,819
29 San Antonio, TX 1,711,703
30 Orlando, FL 1,644,561
31 Columbus, OH 1,612,694
32 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1,582,997
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1,576,370
34 Indianapolis, IN 1,525,104
35 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 1,500,741
36 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 1,375,765
37 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC 1,330,448
38 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA 1,316,510
39 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro, TN 1,311,789
40 Austin-Round Rock, TX 1,249,763
41 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1,205,204
42 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY2/ 1,170,111
43 Louisville, KY-IN 1,161,975
44 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 1,148,618
45 Jacksonville, FL 1,122,750
46 Richmond, VA 1,096,957
47 Oklahoma City, OK 1,095,421
48 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 1,052,238
49 Rochester, NY 1,037,831
50 Salt Lake City, UT 968,858

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Those are old...the dallas metro area has surpassed the philly one now. And who said S.A. was bigger than the ATL metro area??? You might be right but I fidn that extremely hard to believe.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

They don't have TV.

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LOL!!! And Sequ was asking Polandprzem if they have a TV in Poland! :lol

Do they count illegal Mexicans who can't afford TV's ? You're a small time hayseed/tumbleweed town that nobody gives a shit about. One major league team =pathetic.

Next up? having your asses handed to you by Cavs. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

"Small Market" in these terms doesn't having anything to do with population, it has to do with TV market. San Antonio is the 7th largest city by population, but it's the 37th (or maybe 39th) largest TV market.

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Actually last I heard SA has passed up Dallas and is now the 4th or 5th largest city in America, by population - behind NY, LA, Chicago, and Houston, I'm guessing?

But SA is a poor city, and therefore is a small market. But with the increase in biomedical and military money coming in, that may change in the next 10-20 years.

"Market" as in "marketing".

The SA metropolitan area simply doesn't have the income per capita of the other areas to make a strong and large market for advertisers. Hence, it is a small market.