Suns fans misery index goes up a notch...

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm sure you don't know anything about the pre-2005 Suns because you weren't a fan then, but they won 44 games in 2003 and gave the Spurs a more competetive playoff series than they've given since Nash arrived. Amare was hurt, they changed coaches and traded away all their guards. Do a little research before you say stupid shit.

Nash has two MVP trophies: Lebron's and Shaq's.

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I know all there is about them as I've been a fan my whole life. Go take a second and look at their stellar 2003-2004 record, the one right before Nash. I wasn't talking about 2002-2003 when Amare was a rookie and Marbury was still decent for them.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY deserved it over him, because the MVP means the most VALUABLE ot his team, and nobody compares to Nash in that category. Now you wanna say best player in the league that year, then Kobe would have about 7 awards, but that's not what the award is. And now most people around the country think he should have gotten his third, as Dirk's numbers were down, but he was valuable to leading his team to 67 wins, so he got the award, but again, Kobe was far and away the best player.

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If it was COMPLETELY judged by the voters on purely how valuable the guy is to the team, then it would be between Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan every year.

But the voters DO and always have factored in numbers. Just not in Nash's, because of my previous post. The NBA forgot that all Nash does well is play point guard. It's not like Nash is one of the 10 best PG's ever.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Since you mentioned it, I went back and checked. There were 18 seconds on the clock. Nash missed one free throw, so the lead was four. Barring the flop, the Spurs had a timeout, and the ball, with a four point deficit at home. They didn't think the game was over. Trust me. Horry wasn't trying to hurt Nash. If he had been, I assure you Nash would have been hurt.

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I thought it was 100-97.

But I agree, if Horry wanted to hurt him, he freaking could.

Dude, all you have to do is watch the tape to see what happened.

Nobody denies that Horry gave Nash an unnecessarily hard foul. But given that the refs didn't call the two clear fouls by Finley on Nash right after the inbounds, I don't blame him for bodychecking Nash. It wasn't even that hard a foul, frankly. Harder than necessary, probably, but hardly designed to injure him. In fact, specifically designed to throw him out of the way without injury, hence why Horry's arms where held inside.

But it would have ended there had it not been for Nash's embellishment, and if you don't believe he embellished, then you are the one being close minded. The tape evidence clearly shows that he fell (as he would by physics), paused, then flung his arms and legs out and scooted backwards. Robert Horry was then accosted by Raja Bell who ran over as Horry walked away towards his bench. Raja got in Horry's face and THAT was the start of the altercation.

I am not going to argue Bowen's 'tactics' with you or anyone, because it's totally subjective.

And stop pretending the Suns got screwed over by Stern. Or that had it not been for that you would have won. You lost 2 games previously, couldn't pull out a game 5 when the Spurs played like utter shit scrubs because your coach overplayed them and refused to play the bench for just 2 minutes, and then rolled over in game 6.

That's what happened plain and simple. Your team didn't pull it out, just like the Spurs didn't last year against the Mavs.

And unfortunately for you as a fan, your team has chemistry issues that are becoming very apparent and it's clear that you've got people on the block. Maybe that will help, but you won't know until this time next year. The window is certainly closing, just as it is for the Spurs, given the relative ages of our primary players.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Since you mentioned it, I went back and checked. There were 18 seconds on the clock. Nash missed one free throw, so the lead was four. Barring the flop, the Spurs had a timeout, and the ball, with a four point deficit at home. They didn't think the game was over. Trust me. Horry wasn't trying to hurt Nash. If he had been, I assure you Nash would have been hurt.

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The game was pretty much over in everyones mind as the Suns made it 4, and kept the ball and were fouled again to go to 6. Horry knew it was over so he did what he did.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Most of these fans, with the exception of a few, are so close minded and clueless about everything that you saying this will just get them to always react the way they have. Blaming even the conflict on the Suns, when it was really the little bitches on the Spurs that couldn't handle something not going their way again, and then beating on a player when the game was over. The Spurs are the biggest whiny bitches in the NBA, as it shows EACH and EVERY time they get a foul called on them. They win, yes, I'll give them that, but they also bithc better than any team in basketball.

The Suns made that mistake when Amare and Diaw left the bench, but for any of these morons to blame anyone but the BITCH Horry for starting things is just being foolish.

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its funny.. suns fans wouldnt know this because they just started watching basketball again. but the spurs have had to deal with their fair share of questionable/BUNK calls over the years. we lost championships due to some of these. sorrys suns, but it's a right of passage. Maybe if you handle it as gracefully as the spurs and spurs fans you might also get to the top of the mountain someday.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY deserved it over him, because the MVP means the most VALUABLE ot his team, and nobody compares to Nash in that category. Now you wanna say best player in the league that year, then Kobe would have about 7 awards, but that's not what the award is. And now most people around the country think he should have gotten his third, as Dirk's numbers were down, but he was valuable to leading his team to 67 wins, so he got the award, but again, Kobe was far and away the best player.

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Interesting logic. So does the driver of a school bus deserve an award because he's the only one that can drive?

Nash is the most valuable player on his team because:

1. The coach sucks
2. There's no other point guard on the roster
3. The other stars on the team have a combined basketball IQ of about 90

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Originally Posted by Corn on the Colb

If it was COMPLETELY judged by the voters on purely how valuable the guy is to the team, then it would be between Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan every year.

But the voters DO and always have factored in numbers. Just not in Nash's, because of my previous post. The NBA forgot that all Nash does well is play point guard. It's not like Nash is one of the 10 best PG's ever.

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I'm not even going to get into the best PG argument, because most knowledgable analysts will never agree with you. Taking a 29 win team to 62 and the leagues best record in 1 year speaks volumes for that award.

Guess what?

The Suns were up, by what, 16 points in Game 5?

And CHOKED.

If they were any type of decent in the playoffs, NASH in particular, we wouldn't have to talk about the suspensions because they'd have beaten the Spurs with their HUGE LEAD.

But, we're here.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

I'm not even going to get into the best PG argument, because most knowledgable analysts will never agree with you. Taking a 29 win team to 62 and the leagues best record in 1 year speaks volumes for that award.

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Would you argue that Nash is a top-tier point guard of all-time?

Because if you did, you'd be wrong.

Magic, Stockton, Thomas, then everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Corn on the Colb

Guess what?

The Suns were up, by what, 16 points in Game 5?

And CHOKED.

If they were any type of decent in the playoffs, NASH in particular, we wouldn't have to talk about the suspensions because they'd have beaten the Spurs with their HUGE LEAD.

But, we're here.

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Let's not forget, a shorthanded game 5 where only 6 players played, and yes 6, not 7 because Burke never counts. That's on the coach though because he didn't have enough players playoff ready, but losing a 12 point lead with only 6 players against a pretty much full strength SPurs squad will happen easily. The lead was not 16.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

The game was pretty much over in everyones mind as the Suns made it 4, and kept the ball and were fouled again to go to 6. Horry knew it was over so he did what he did.

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Another lie. What you describe above is after the Horry foul. The game was over as soon as Nash got two shots and the ball. Since Horry basically said the reason he fouled Nash was because if Nash got by him the game was over, I'm not sure why you are so sure Horry thought the game was over.

BTW, easjer: There was no inbounds on that play, the Spurs missed a shot. And Finley never made contact. That's why it made sense that Horry was worried about Nash getting past him.

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Originally Posted by Corn on the Colb

Would you argue that Nash is a top-tier point guard of all-time?

Because if you did, you'd be wrong.

Magic, Stockton, Thomas, then everyone else.

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I will say those 3 and a couple others are above him, but sure as hell not 10 above him. But like I said, I won;t argue this, its been done before, and too many idiots throw a name like Kidd in there when he is nowhere near Nash, tust me, I know, I watched him too.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

The game was pretty much over in everyones mind as the Suns made it 4, and kept the ball and were fouled again to go to 6. Horry knew it was over so he did what he did.

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it was three points. spurs took two more three pointers during the course of the game, which could have tied or taken a lead with some missed free throws.

it was over in your mind, but you don't get to decide for the players. they still had a long shot at winning.

don't you ever tire of being wrong?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Another lie. What you describe above is after the Horry foul. The game was over as soon as Nash got two shots and the ball. Since Horry basically said the reason he fouled Nash was because if Nash got by him the game was over, I'm not sure why you are so sure Horry thought the game was over.

BTW, easjer: There was no inbounds on that play, the Spurs missed a shot. And Finley never made contact. That's why it made sense that Horry was worried about Nash getting past him.

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Dude, Horry could have fouled, not done what he did, those are different. He was all frustrated and butthurt because his team folded, and he took it to far.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Let's not forget, a shorthanded game 5 where only 6 players played, and yes 6, not 7 because Burke never counts. That's on the coach though because he didn't have enough players playoff ready, but losing a 12 point lead with only 6 players against a pretty much full strength SPurs squad will happen easily. The lead was not 16.

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Are you starting to sense a pattern here? Why is it you always have an excuse for losing? At what point do you just man the fuck up? You are a puss, and I'm so glad that basketball karma keeps slapping your team in the face with its dick.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Are you starting to sense a pattern here? Why is it you always have an excuse for losing? At what point do you just man the fuck up? You are a puss, and I'm so glad that basketball karma keeps slapping your team in the face with its dick.

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Well when some Jazz moron tries to compare losing a 12 point lead in that situation to potentially losing the small lead with 18 seconds to go, I will say that. I have said many times before, the Suns lost game 5 because of bad coaching and missing key shots, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

I will say those 3 and a couple others are above him, but sure as hell not 10 above him. But like I said, I won;t argue this, its been done before, and too many idiots throw a name like Kidd in there when he is nowhere near Nash, tust me, I know, I watched him too.

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Did you say Nash's career > Kidd's career?

Please don't tell me you are that bad of a homer.

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Originally Posted by Dave McNulla

it was three points. spurs took two more three pointers during the course of the game, which could have tied or taken a lead with some missed free throws.

it was over in your mind, but you don't get to decide for the players. they still had a long shot at winning.

don't you ever tire of being wrong?

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Owned!!! Just plain-old fucking owned!!!

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Dude, Horry could have fouled, not done what he did, those are different. He was all frustrated and butthurt because his team folded, and he took it to far.

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How? What did Horry do that was so egregious? He didn't put his elbow up. He looked like he was either going to draw a charge or set a pick. He threw his weight into it at the end. He turned around and walked away as soon as he did it. Everything else that happened after that is on your team.

I'm so tired of owning you guys. You are the weakest fan base, by far, in the history of sports.

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Originally Posted by Corn on the Colb

Did you say Nash's career > Kidd's career?

Please don't tell me you are that bad of a homer.

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Yes, I will say that all day, and I'm a huge Kidd fan as well. Remember, he spent the years in Phoenix, and was shipped, which was a very unpopular move in Phoenix. I will always stick by great players who wore that uniform, and Kidd did for longer, but he still was never the PG Nash has become.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Well when some Jazz moron tries to compare losing a 12 point lead in that situation to potentially losing the small lead with 18 seconds to go, I will say that. I have said many times before, the Suns lost game 5 because of bad coaching and missing key shots, plain and simple.

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Uh, dude, it's a valid point. The Suns and Spurs each came back from deficits in that series, so the idea that either team thought game 4 was over is laughable.

The Jazz moron is owning you. Something about knowing more about basketball than you do.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Well when some Jazz moron tries to compare losing a 12 point lead in that situation to potentially losing the small lead with 18 seconds to go, I will say that. I have said many times before, the Suns lost game 5 because of bad coaching and missing key shots, plain and simple.

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I never compared it to potentially losing a lead with 18 seconds left.

What the fuck are you talking about? Don't put words in my mouth dipshit.

The fact is, the Suns, regardless of the situation, had a double figure lead and lost it. LOST. Who cares why? THEY LOST AND COULD HAVE WON WITHOUT AMARE. They played a whole season without Amare and made it farther. He obviously wasn't THAT vital. They still could have won. And lost. Why you think they lost is irrelevant.

And the biggest lead was 16. I'm no idiot. I remember this shit. Look it up.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

How? What did Horry do that was so egregious? He didn't put his elbow up. He looked like he was either going to draw a charge or set a pick. He threw his weight into it at the end. He turned around and walked away as soon as he did it. Everything else that happened after that is on your team.

I'm so tired of owning you guys. You are the weakest fan base, by far, in the history of sports.

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Horry laid his shoulder in like the BITCH he is, and always has been. Bell came to the defense of his teammate who was knocked down, and then Horry made another BITCH move and elbowed him. The rest of it is on the Suns from there with Amare and Diaw, but it will always be the little girl Horry who got it all going because he couldn't handle losing like a man.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

Yes, I will say that all day, and I'm a huge Kidd fan as well. Remember, he spent the years in Phoenix, and was shipped, which was a very unpopular move in Phoenix. I will always stick by great players who wore that uniform, and Kidd did for longer, but he still was never the PG Nash has become.

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Kidd was traded for Marbury because he got arrested for hitting his wife. He's still the best point guard the Suns have ever had. Nash has an outside chance of becoming the third best point guard the Suns have ever had if he plays well the next couple of years.