cuban take

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.2ec226b.html


09:53 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 5, 2007
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

If you asked Mavericks fans to recall their most vivid memories of the 2006 NBA Finals, you'd probably get this majority response – Dwyane Wade's free throws.

To which people in San Antonio might wonder if Cleveland's LeBron James is next in line at the 15-foot shooting gallery.

Mavericks fans may rue the whistles of their team's only visit to the Finals, but the rest of the unbiased world is left to ponder whether Wade shot a record 95 free throws because the Mavericks couldn't guard him, or because an overzealous set of referees kept sending the NBA's rising star to the stripe for free throw after free throw.

Wade's free throw total was the most in an NBA Finals series that lasted six games. It tied for second-most overall in the 60-year history of the Finals.

Now, it's the Spurs' turn to attempt to slow down the next-hottest thing.

And James almost certainly has more pull on the league and the world than Wade could ever muster.

In the last two games of the Eastern Conference finals against Detroit, James shot a combined 33 free throw attempts, making 24. With that percentage (.727), maybe the Spurs would be better served putting James on the line instead of allowing him free runs at the rim.

The point is that Spurs fans probably will be treated to a parade by James to the free throw line. Or will they? There's at least one player who knows James will try to do some damage from the line. And it's Bruce Bowen's job to keep him off of it.

"It all depends on how the game is being called," the Spurs forward said Tuesday. "Just like Dirk [Nowitzki] in the first game against us last year didn't get to the line too much. But after that, he got to the line a lot more.

"Part of the adjustment is on their coaches, saying, 'Hey, we're going to have you go to the basket more and create contact and get a foul called.' The other thing is just how aggressively they allow you to play [defense]."

In Games 5 and 6 of the Eastern Conference finals vs. Detroit, LeBron James (right) shot a combined 33 free throw attempts. One expert on the importance of how a game is officiated is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who said that officiating will be "a key to who wins" the series.

"It's not just about going to the line, it's about fouling out," Cuban said. "LBJ attacks the basket, and no one can slow him down one on one, which means Tim Duncan is the last line of defense. So if they are officiating the games like last year, Tim will have a tough decision to make, get a foul, or watch LeBron shoot a layup."

And if the Finals aren't officiated as they were last year, things might tilt heavily in the Spurs' favor. But it's not just James' ability to get to the basket. In the last three games against Detroit, Daniel Gibson, the rookie from Texas, had 33 free throw attempts and took only 23 shots from the field. And he's considered more of a spot-up shooter than a slasher.

Another keen observer said the teams will have to adjust to the officiating, one way or the other.

"I'm not sure how it's going to go," Mavericks coach Avery Johnson said. "You've got a dominant player who can handle the ball and is really a point guard who initiates the offense and finishes the offense. Who's to say how the games are going to be called? Nobody knows. But when you have a player like [James], he's capable of getting to the line."

The Spurs aren't giving many clues on how they expect to defend James once the series begins Thursday in San Antonio. However, they said Bowen will start on James. The matchup will pit one of the game's most respected one-on-one defenders against one of its most unstoppable offensive forces.

It should be fun to see how those first few minutes unfold. If James is able to rack up quick fouls on the Spurs, things could shift in Cleveland's favor.

That still might not be enough for the Cavaliers to win, Cuban said, because the Spurs like to play man-up defense and dare an opponent's big gun to beat them, the way they did against Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire and Utah's Carlos Boozer.

"The issue is whether or not Tim and Bowen will get in foul trouble first," Cuban said. "That is what will have the biggest impact on the series. If LeBron's drives to the basket can get TD in foul trouble and foul him out of a couple games, the Cavs win. If not, it's the Spurs."

NBA Finals, Cleveland at San Antonio: Game 1, 8 p.m. Thursday (Ch. 8)

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Originally Posted by ducks

"It's not just about going to the line, it's about fouling out," Cuban said. "LBJ attacks the basket, and no one can slow him down one on one, which means Tim Duncan is the last line of defense. So if they are officiating the games like last year, Tim will have a tough decision to make, get a foul, or watch LeBron shoot a layup."

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i need to thank him for advice on what to do in the Finals. he knows better than me.

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Originally Posted by Cuban

"The issue is whether or not Tim and Bowen will get in foul trouble first," Cuban said. "That is what will have the biggest impact on the series. If LeBron's drives to the basket can get TD in foul trouble and foul him out of a couple games, the Cavs win. If not, it's the Spurs."

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Cuban is rarely right but this time he was pretty dead on.

As I said...Elson needs to pull his head out. And hopefully Horry will get on the court. They can help protect the basket and even block a few shots.

the question is the legitimacy of the intention to make a shot when driving in the lane

some players just run in lookin to create body contact and throw up a hail mary and hope the refs blow the whistle....

there needs to be a clearer interpretation imo to stop awarding floppers on the offensive end excluding ginoboli

"One expert on the importance of how a game is officiated is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban..."

:lmao

I thought it was actually 97 free throws in 6 games but who cares, it was a record!

Look for the same thing to happen this series. The concern for the Spurs is the depth of the bench. If the starters do get into foul trouble that will be a concern.

I have harped on this very point on this board for over a week now and i still believe that this is the main reason that the Cavs will win some games in this series (officiating and fouls) and it is the only reason that the Cavs have a slight chance in winning this series.

I warned you guys about the foul fest that is coming and you all blew it off.
If i am wrong i will come on here and happily eat crow. But if i am right you all will probably not reciprocate, which is fine with me. Lebron will average 14-15 free throws per game. Luckily he won't make 90% of them like DumbWade did.

Just remember:
1. Lebron is bigger, stronger and probably faster than DumbWade.
2.The officiating has not changed in the past year.
3.The league wants to see Lebron as their "new Jordan"
4. Some of Joey's buddies are still reffing.
5. Sweeps are bad for TV and for the League.

So get ready for some foul shots and a 6 or 7 game series!

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Originally Posted by 41times

I thought it was actually 97 free throws in 6 games but who cares, it was a record!

Look for the same thing to happen this series. The concern for the Spurs is the depth of the bench. If the starters do get into foul trouble that will be a concern.

I have harped on this very point on this board for over a week now and i still believe that this is the main reason that the Cavs will win some games in this series (officiating and fouls) and it is the only reason that the Cavs have a slight chance in winning this series.

I warned you guys about the foul fest that is coming and you all blew it off.
If i am wrong i will come on here and happily eat crow. But if i am right you all will probably not reciprocate, which is fine with me. Lebron will average 14-15 free throws per game. Luckily he won't make 90% of them like DumbWade did.

Just remember:
1. Lebron is bigger, stronger and probably faster than DumbWade.
2.The officiating has not changed in the past year.
3.The league wants to see Lebron as their "new Jordan"
4. Some of Joey's buddies are still reffing.
5. Sweeps are bad for TV and for the League.

So get ready for some foul shots and a 6 or 7 game series!

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I actually believe this is the ONLY thing the Spurs have to fear in this series. A disportionate number of FTs to the Cavs. I see that as the only way they can keep the game close.

But the silver lining in that cloud is, Lebron is not the greatest of free throw shooters, especially under pressure.

Could put Beno on the floor and employ the "hack a King" ploy, just to see if he is having an "on or off" night at the line. If he misses 3 out of 4, send him to the line a lot. Never give him the chance for the "and 1". Put the pressure on him to score from the FT line.

Manu has the ability to force the refs to call fouls. The only way James gets more free throw attempts than Manu or Duncan is if they aren't being aggressive and he is, or if guys aren't rotating. The Spurs don't commit a lot of fouls when they are playing their defense because they don't have to. The Mavericks shot jumpers in the finals and thought they should be rewarded for it just because.

And let the excuses begin......

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Manu has the ability to force the refs to call fouls. The only way James gets more free throw attempts than Manu or Duncan is if they aren't being aggressive and he is, or if guys aren't rotating. The Spurs don't commit a lot of fouls when they are playing their defense because they don't have to. The Mavericks shot jumpers in the finals and thought they should be rewarded for it just because.

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You can bet that when Manu starts driving, Varejao will start floppin :king

Likewise, Duncan will likely get the Cavs in foul trouble. He did it to the Nuggets, the SUns, and the Jazz, there's no reason to think it won't happen to the Cavs.

I still wonder who on the CAvs is going to be able to stop Tim Duncan. Lebron is great and all, but Tim Duncan is still at his peak doing his thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.2ec226b.html


09:53 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 5, 2007
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

If you asked Mavericks fans to recall their most vivid memories of the 2006 NBA Finals, you'd probably get this majority response – Dwyane Wade's free throws.

To which people in San Antonio might wonder if Cleveland's LeBron James is next in line at the 15-foot shooting gallery.

Mavericks fans may rue the whistles of their team's only visit to the Finals, but the rest of the unbiased world is left to ponder whether Wade shot a record 95 free throws because the Mavericks couldn't guard him, or because an overzealous set of referees kept sending the NBA's rising star to the stripe for free throw after free throw.

Wade's free throw total was the most in an NBA Finals series that lasted six games. It tied for second-most overall in the 60-year history of the Finals.

Now, it's the Spurs' turn to attempt to slow down the next-hottest thing.

And James almost certainly has more pull on the league and the world than Wade could ever muster.

In the last two games of the Eastern Conference finals against Detroit, James shot a combined 33 free throw attempts, making 24. With that percentage (.727), maybe the Spurs would be better served putting James on the line instead of allowing him free runs at the rim.

The point is that Spurs fans probably will be treated to a parade by James to the free throw line. Or will they? There's at least one player who knows James will try to do some damage from the line. And it's Bruce Bowen's job to keep him off of it.

"It all depends on how the game is being called," the Spurs forward said Tuesday. "Just like Dirk [Nowitzki] in the first game against us last year didn't get to the line too much. But after that, he got to the line a lot more.

"Part of the adjustment is on their coaches, saying, 'Hey, we're going to have you go to the basket more and create contact and get a foul called.' The other thing is just how aggressively they allow you to play [defense]."

In Games 5 and 6 of the Eastern Conference finals vs. Detroit, LeBron James (right) shot a combined 33 free throw attempts. One expert on the importance of how a game is officiated is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who said that officiating will be "a key to who wins" the series.

"It's not just about going to the line, it's about fouling out," Cuban said. "LBJ attacks the basket, and no one can slow him down one on one, which means Tim Duncan is the last line of defense. So if they are officiating the games like last year, Tim will have a tough decision to make, get a foul, or watch LeBron shoot a layup."

And if the Finals aren't officiated as they were last year, things might tilt heavily in the Spurs' favor. But it's not just James' ability to get to the basket. In the last three games against Detroit, Daniel Gibson, the rookie from Texas, had 33 free throw attempts and took only 23 shots from the field. And he's considered more of a spot-up shooter than a slasher.

Another keen observer said the teams will have to adjust to the officiating, one way or the other.

"I'm not sure how it's going to go," Mavericks coach Avery Johnson said. "You've got a dominant player who can handle the ball and is really a point guard who initiates the offense and finishes the offense. Who's to say how the games are going to be called? Nobody knows. But when you have a player like [James], he's capable of getting to the line."

The Spurs aren't giving many clues on how they expect to defend James once the series begins Thursday in San Antonio. However, they said Bowen will start on James. The matchup will pit one of the game's most respected one-on-one defenders against one of its most unstoppable offensive forces.

It should be fun to see how those first few minutes unfold. If James is able to rack up quick fouls on the Spurs, things could shift in Cleveland's favor.

That still might not be enough for the Cavaliers to win, Cuban said, because the Spurs like to play man-up defense and dare an opponent's big gun to beat them, the way they did against Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire and Utah's Carlos Boozer.

"The issue is whether or not Tim and Bowen will get in foul trouble first," Cuban said. "That is what will have the biggest impact on the series. If LeBron's drives to the basket can get TD in foul trouble and foul him out of a couple games, the Cavs win. If not, it's the Spurs."

NBA Finals, Cleveland at San Antonio: Game 1, 8 p.m. Thursday (Ch. 8)

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looking at the past 4 games between the cavs-spurs, none of the spurs really ever come close to fouling out aside from oberto.

Cuban doesn't understand that good defensive teams don't need to commit fouls. He actually believes that the refs have an agenda.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Cuban doesn't understand that good defensive teams don't need to commit fouls. He actually believes that the refs have an agenda.

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Just look at game 3 in the Jazz series.

It's definitely a concern. If Tim is in foul trouble repeatedly, we're dead in the water.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n-HeadCase.jpg

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Manu has the ability to force the refs to call fouls. The only way James gets more free throw attempts than Manu or Duncan is if they aren't being aggressive and he is, or if guys aren't rotating. The Spurs don't commit a lot of fouls when they are playing their defense because they don't have to. The Mavericks shot jumpers in the finals and thought they should be rewarded for it just because.

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You are right on the money. You don't see us in the penalty very often.

You guys needn't be concerned about a repeat of 2006. LeBron doesn't get Dwayne Wade calls, he didn't get them during the regular season, and he won't get them in this series. D-Whistle gets breathed on, flies backwards ten feet, and gets the call. LeBron gets hacked, slapped, whacked in the face, and doesn't get the call. Christ, he didn't get to the free throw line once in Game 1 against Detroit, and he was driving plenty that night. He's like Shaq- he'll never get all of the foul calls he deserves.

The refs will not decide this series.

James is not the same kind of penetrator that Wade is. Wade will jump into the defender and try to draw contact, whereas James tries to avoid contact on most of his drives. Also, I don't believe James is as good a FT shooter as Wade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDS4

Just look at game 3 in the Jazz series.

It's definitely a concern. If Tim is in foul trouble repeatedly, we're dead in the water.

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I watched that game. Duncan committed stupid fouls. Collins got him for an and one, and then he went over Kirilenko's back for no reason after missing a shot 30 seconds later. That's just stupid, it's not bad officiating. Duncan had a shitload of stupid turnovers. Nobody showed up for that game and they got the shit beat out of them. If the Spurs fail to show up and make stupid mental mistakes, yeah, they'll be in trouble.

Two points:

One, it's ironic that Cuban is blaming the refs for 2006, when Cuban took credit for the league changing the way it called games to favor teams like Dallas and the Suns. What goes around, comes around...

Two, as mentioned above, sending Lebron to the free throw line is not the worst thing that could happen.

Even if Lebron shoots 25 free throws every night, the officials won't be deciding the series. Blaming losses on officials is always weak. Always.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Even if Lebron shoots 25 free throws every night, the officials won't be deciding the series. Blaming losses on officials is always weak. Always.

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True. If the Spurs didn't want the Mavericks taking a shitload of free throws last year they shouldn't have taken all their shot blockers out of the game in the middle of a series and replaced them with smaller guys who were out of position and struggling against a quick penetrating team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

True. If the Spurs didn't want the Mavericks taking a shitload of free throws last year they shouldn't have taken all their shot blockers out of the game in the middle of a series and replaced them with smaller guys who were out of position and struggling against a quick penetrating team.

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As it was, the Spurs didn't lose any games to Dallas last year because of free throw attempts or officiating.

I was truly awed by the performances of Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic during this post-season. Clearly, each is a guy who will thrive by virtue of his shot blocking ability in the new age of the NBA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

As it was, the Spurs didn't lose any games to Dallas last year because of free throw attempts or officiating.

I was truly awed by the performances of Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic during this post-season. Clearly, each is a guy who will thrive by virtue of his shot blocking ability in the new age of the NBA.

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Hmm. There was that other championship they won in San Antonio. I'd bet they're still better shot blockers than Michael Finley.

Duncan knows how to stay out of foul trouble. how many times has he fouled out in the last 12 games?

The only time he was in foul trouble it was his own fault. If they bring in FIBA officials for game one, it's time to worry.

[QUOTE=41times]
Just remember:
1. Lebron is bigger, stronger and probably faster than DumbWade.
2.The officiating has not changed in the past year.
3.The league wants to see Lebron as their "new Jordan"
4. Some of Joey's buddies are still reffing.
5. Sweeps are bad for TV and for the League.

QUOTE]
True. But the Mavs of last year were not nearly the defensive team of the Spurs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Even if Lebron shoots 25 free throws every night, the officials won't be deciding the series. Blaming losses on officials is always weak. Always.

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Officials can take one game off you, not an entire series.

Ex : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6SpBM8dB4k

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Originally Posted by Martin R

Officials can take one game off you, not an entire series.

Ex : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6SpBM8dB4k

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I don't know what's more sad: That some Lakers fan took the time to put that together, or that he's completely wrong on the majority of his facts.

I think that is HORRIBLE officianting. No contact fouls. Cavs players almost stopping Kobe's penetrations with their hands, etc.

I am a Spurs fan but for me, that's horrible officiating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin R

I think that is HORRIBLE officianting. No contact fouls. Cavs players almost stopping Kobe's penetrations with their hands, etc.

I am a Spurs fan but for me, that's horrible officiating.

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So, the horrible officiating is the only reason that the Lakers might have lost that game? (did they lose the game?)

Officials make mistakes -- sure. But officials' mistakes don't cost teams games. Period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin R

I think that is HORRIBLE officianting. No contact fouls. Cavs players almost stopping Kobe's penetrations with their hands, etc.

I am a Spurs fan but for me, that's horrible officiating.

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Fortunately the refs are more familiar with the rule book than you are. A foul is, by rule, contact the defender initiates, not just contact. Defenders have the right to their space, and just because Hubie and Breen love the Lakers doesn't mean they are entitled to whistles.

Some of those no calls had almost no contact at all, Kobe flopped on at least two of them, and the defenders usually jumped straight up without hacking down on anyone's arms. Notice that's why Kobe gets called at the end of the game for slapping down across the player's arms and knocking him to the floor. You can't just jump into a guy's chest and expect to get bailed out with a call. The guy who made the video was looking for flagrants to be called. Are you kidding me with that shit?

Kobe leads the league in free throw attempts; it amazes me that Lakers fans still manage to complain about how unfair life is.

I am not a Laker fan. Those are fouls a referee usually calls in the NBA. Period.

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Originally Posted by Martin R

I am not a Laker fan. Those are fouls a referee usually calls in the NBA. Period.

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They're also cherry-picked from an entire game. Did they show any good calls? No? It's propaganda, then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks
NBA Finals, Cleveland at San Antonio: Game 1, 8 p.m. Thursday [B

(Ch. 8)[/B]

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Well now at least I don't have to ask anyone what channel it's on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I watched that game. Duncan committed stupid fouls. Collins got him for an and one, and then he went over Kirilenko's back for no reason after missing a shot 30 seconds later. That's just stupid, it's not bad officiating. Duncan had a shitload of stupid turnovers. Nobody showed up for that game and they got the shit beat out of them. If the Spurs fail to show up and make stupid mental mistakes, yeah, they'll be in trouble.

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Word. Duncan himself said all that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Cuban doesn't understand that good defensive teams don't need to commit fouls. He actually believes that the refs have an agenda.

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Exactly. the Mavs aren't really a good defensive team, they just like to think they are.

And anyway, if they hadn't choked away a big lead in game 3, there wouldn't be any talk about DWade's parade to the free throw line. Does Cuban REALLY believe the refs had it in for his team? They had the series in the bag. btw, who was the first team in Finals history to blow a 2-0 lead?

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Originally Posted by Martin R

I am not a Laker fan. Those are fouls a referee usually calls in the NBA. Period.

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You are wrong. You can't have watched Spurs games this year and believe that. Period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

As I said...Elson needs to pull his head out. And hopefully Horry will get on the court. They can help protect the basket and even block a few shots.

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Elson? He can´t find his head!!!! :elephant

Cuban sucks! :p:

Anyway it's a good point ,but whatever I say TIM DUNCAN is the key of the world survival.
GO TIMMY YOU'RE THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME (TBPOAT) and GO SPURS GO!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by lrrr

btw, who was the first team in Finals history to blow a 2-0 lead?

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Not sure who was the first but there have been several. Dr. J's team in 1977 vs. Bill Walton in Portland was my first dissapointing 2-0 lead loss. Last year was my 2nd.