If they win Where will Duncan Rank all TIME??

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Originally Posted by Diesel

Shaq may have hhad Kobe in his Laker runs, but the LA Show was a two-man team. Duncans Spurs always had the depth. Bowen, Ginobili, David Robinson, Parker? Not your typical scrubs either.

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Not a 2 man team they had Horry in his prime, Fisher very good pg during those years, Rick Fox was a good player for them. Spurs best years i would agree were a little deeper than the Lakers but Kobe counts for a lot he is an all time great player. Other than Jordan is there really any player better than him at the 2 guard?

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Originally Posted by spurtime

Wilt didn't own Russell. He scored more points, but he also took a lot more shots. Russell was more content anchoring the defense and controlling the glass. Russell was 57-37 against Wilt in the regular season and 29-20 against him in the playoffs.

http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0116/1493700.html

His rebounding numbers in their head to head matchups were pretty much equal to Wilt's. It was Russell's defense that was the constant for the Celtics over the course of his 11 championship seasons.

Using the logic that Wilt's scoring puts him over the top against Russell is akin to saying that Carmelo Anthony is the best forward in the game because of the scoring numbers he puts up. It ignores all the things that other players do to help their teams win and make them superior relative to Carmelo.

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Wilt was just as good on D a better rebounder than Russell and a much better offensive player even Russell admits to that.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Wilt was just as good on D a better rebounder than Russell and a much better offensive player even Russell admits to that.

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Block statistics weren't kept back then, but I've heard Russell's contemporaries rave about his one on one and help defense being the best they'd ever seen. Also, I've never seen Bill Russell compare himself favorably to the other great players in the history of the game, unlike Wilt (God rest his soul) was prone to do. That was more indicative of a character trait then rooted in reality imo.

Am I the only guy who thinks Kareem is the undisputed second best player of all time?

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Originally Posted by ~~Ice Man 2000~~

Am I the only guy who thinks Kareem is the undisputed second best player of all time?

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To me Wilt is, Kareem is in the top 5 for sure.

I've always seen him as having the best combination of stats and winning.

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Originally Posted by OldDirtMcGirt

MJ, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, West, Abdul-Jabar, and Robertson are all clearly better than Duncan.

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How many of those won a title without another hall of famer as their teammate? The only thing most of those guys have on TD is a few decades for their legend to grow.

duncan will have more titles then this one if he wins this year

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Originally Posted by ducks

duncan will have more titles then this one if he wins this year

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I hope he makes it a mission to repeat, Just to make the Dynasty complete.

Problem is, I am worried that too much success in the next couple of years might make it more likely for him to hang it up at the end of his current contract.

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Originally Posted by SpursIndonesia

One clear level above Hakeem & Shaq. Still lacking one more ring to overtake Bird though.

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??

Bird won three titles: 81, 84 and 86. Tim is playing for his 4th title.

You can't judge a player mid-career, but when Timmy retires he's 2nd to jordan.

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Originally Posted by sandman

??

Bird won three titles: 81, 84 and 86. Tim is playing for his 4th title.

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And Bird only (!) got 2 Finals MVP's. Duncan's got 3 (as of this moment.)

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Originally Posted by spursfan09

:lol competence.

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i meant competition

its hard when you dont know a language, that is not your natal one, very good. thanks for pointing

About the only thing Bird has on TD is his skin color and playing in the large media market that still bemoans TD being 'stolen' from them a decade later.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

About the only thing Bird has on TD is his skin color and playing in the large media market that still bemoans TD being 'stolen' from them a decade later.

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Bird was seriously fun to watch and he was so damn good at trash talking, he was probably the best trash talker in NBA history, because he could always back it up. For instance, Bill Walton said that after a timeout, where the coach painstakingly drew up a play, Bird would walk out on to the flloor and tell his opponents exactly what play he was going to run and he would still score on them.

:lol

That is good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Diesel

lmao a Cleveland fan bitching about winning because of weak competition. Nice teams you beat. Gilbert and Butlerless Wizards, the mediocre Nets, and an overrated Pistons team. Now that your actually playing a title contender your going to get owned.

I love Tim Duncan, but no way is he on Shaqs level. Even when he wins this one title. In Shaqs prime he couldn't be stopped. Here are his playoff averages during his prime.

98: 30.5 PPG, 61 FG%, 10.2 RPG 2.9 BPG
99: 26.6 PPG, 51 FG%, 11.6 RPG 2.9 BPG
00: 30.7 PPG, 57 FG%, 15.4 RPG 2.4 BPG(Won title)
01: 30.4 PPG, 55 FG%, 15.4 RPG 2.4 BPG(Won title)
02: 28.5 PPG, 53 FG%, 12.6 RPG 2.5 BPG(Won Title)
03: 27.0 PPG, 54 FG%, 14.8 RPG 2.8 BPG

Both have 8 All NBA 1st Team appearences despite there being two Forwrd spots on the 1st Team. During Shaq's prime he was on it every year as well as 04, 05, and 06.

I love Tim Duncan and recognize his greatness. I refer to him as the best power forward of all-time, but Tim Duncan was never able to dominate the game the way Shaq did.

Tim Duncan definetly has a good shot to surpass Shaq though, since he is only 31 and has 4 titles(let's assume that). At the pace he's going I wouldn't be surprised to see him match MJ's 6 titles.

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im not a cleveland fan. im a anti-duncan, anti-bowen, anti-parker and anti-pop

Bird's so underrated on this board. Bird could do anything on the offensive end, and he was the second greatest clutch player I've ever seen. To me, Bird vs. Magic is a toss up for the second greatest player all-time. Those 80s Celtics had the hardest roads to the Finals in NBA history. In the early 80s they had to go through a supremely talented Sixers team that boasted one of the 5 greatest teams in NBA history with their 1983 group. Milwaukee was a step below, but still a hell of a team with lots of scoring. Then, they had to go through some of the deepest teams in NBA history in the Pistons... and after all that work, three times they had to go up against a ridiculously deep, talented, and rested Lakers team that pretty much got a bye to the Finals in a weak Western Conference.

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Originally Posted by Jimcs50

Bird was seriously fun to watch and he was so damn good at trash talking, he was probably the best trash talker in NBA history, because he could always back it up. For instance, Bill Walton said that after a timeout, where the coach painstakingly drew up a play, Bird would walk out on to the flloor and tell his opponents exactly what play he was going to run and he would still score on them.

:lol

That is good stuff.

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:lol

You're referring to the one he hit in Xavier McDaniel's face at the Kingdome.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Bird's so underrated on this board. Bird could do anything on the offensive end, and he was the second greatest clutch player I've ever seen. To me, Bird vs. Magic is a toss up for the second greatest player all-time. Those 80s Celtics had the hardest roads to the Finals in NBA history. In the early 80s they had to go through a supremely talented Sixers team that boasted one of the 5 greatest teams in NBA history with their 1983 group. Milwaukee was a step below, but still a hell of a team with lots of scoring. Then, they had to go through some of the deepest teams in NBA history in the Pistons... and after all that work, three times they had to go up against a ridiculously deep, talented, and rested Lakers team that pretty much got a bye to the Finals in a weak Western Conference.

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I think Bird's incredible, and I'm starting to think Duncan deserves to be in the discussion. Considering that Duncan's career isn't close to over, that's saying something.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I think Bird's incredible, and I'm starting to think Duncan deserves to be in the discussion. Considering that Duncan's career isn't close to over, that's saying something.

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Bird is the reason I'm an NBA fan.

I was in college in RI his rookie year. We used to drive into Boston and get cheap tickets at the door on game nights.
You see Bird play live in his first season you become a fan.
He was incredible.

And Duncan does deserve to be in the discussion. I can't imagine what we'll be saying after he retires considering his accomplishments so far.

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Originally Posted by Slinkyman

You can't judge a player mid-career, but when Timmy retires he's 2nd to jordan.

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No way homer.

Just wait til Timmy retires and about 15-20 years later people will look back and finally realize how dominating he is.......All these fans on here writing about the guys in the past always inflate how good they are after they have been gone so long and we forget to stop and realize how good some of these players in this era are.....Kobe/Timmy....The way Tim can change a game on both sides of the ball makes him better than Magic and Bird

Another sort of category or modification of it will be created for Timmy, since it's hard to, in a limiting fashion, pinpoint his contributions while focusing on the position/skills that a PF traditionally has.
He loves playing out of position as it is.
His skills encompass those of being a scorer, rebounder, facilitator, shot blocker, passer and not to forget, team defender. Those times when he lurks around the perimeter or top of the key for a medium range j or 2 come to mind also.

What should humble the skeptics is that TD likely has 5 more seasons playing at this level in front of him. His resume already is good enough to be an unanimous first ballot Hall of Famer. As long as the Spurs can keep the supporting cast around him, TP, and Manu replenished with talented like-minded teammates the legend will continue to grow.

:smokin

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Originally Posted by texasqb2

Just wait til Timmy retires and about 15-20 years later people will look back and finally realize how dominating he is.......All these fans on here writing about the guys in the past always inflate how good they are after they have been gone so long and we forget to stop and realize how good some of these players in this era are.....Kobe/Timmy....The way Tim can change a game on both sides of the ball makes him better than Magic and Bird

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That's a great point. It will take ten years for people to look back at how good tim is... how good kobe, shaq, jkidd, cweb, dirk (elw), AI, and how good this era was in general.