State of the Cap: San Antonio Spurs

State of the Cap: San Antonio Spurs
By Josh Redetzke
6/8/07


2007/08 San Antonio Spurs Payroll: $60.9 million
2007/08 Estimated NBA Salary Cap: $55 million
Roughly: $5.9 million over cap

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/largepics/tduncan04.jpg
Tim Duncan

The Good: The Spurs are in the Finals yet again thanks to their talented core of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili. You’d better get used to it since that group is locked up for at least three more seasons.

Tim Duncan is one of the highest paid players in the league, getting $19, $20.5, and $22 million over that span. The future Hall of Famer earns every penny. After dipping last season, Duncan is back to scoring 20 points a game to go with his 10.6 rebounds and 2.4 blocks. To top it off, he shot 54.6% from the field, his best since his rookie year. The most efficient player in the league still has a lot of game left in him.

Duncan’s backcourt teammates also kept their play at a high level. Tony Parker maintained last year’s stellar numbers and vastly improved his three-point shooting to nearly 40%, although he hardly shoots them anymore. His preference is to get to the rim and finish, which he excels at. Despite not starting, Manu Ginobili still managed to play the same amount of minutes and improve his numbers. His 16.5 points per game and 39.6% three-point shooting were both career highs. Manu always saves his best for the playoffs and he is a big reason the Spurs are where they are right now. Each player will be paid between $9 and $12 million a year the next three seasons and together with Duncan, they are almost unstoppable.

Bruce Bowen is considered by some to be the best defender in basketball and San Antonio gets to keep him one more year for a measly $4 million. Bowen’s offensive game is limited to corner threes, but he knows what he does well and sticks to it, allowing the stars to do their thing without getting in their way. Bowen should get a nice pay raise next summer as other teams with be foaming at the mouth for a chance to take away one of the Spurs’ best role players.

The Bad: The days of Big Shot Rob are pretty much over. He’ll still make the occasional big play when it counts, but why does he even show up for the regular season? Horry sleepwalked his way to 3.9 points in 16 minutes a game. At least he is only due $3.6 million next year.

The Future: Simply put, the San Antonio Spurs are the flagship franchise in the National Basketball Association. They represent what every other team in the league should be trying to achieve. They win, they play smart, team oriented basketball, they are well-coached, and their salary cap is fiscally sound. Sure, they were lucky to land Tim Duncan in the draft lottery, but they made their own luck by drafting Parker and Ginobili and by making intelligent front office moves like acquiring Bruce Bowen and Michael Finley. Even after all their success, the Spurs will still be title contenders in the foreseeable future. That’s a major credit to their management.

The only concern I see is the depth of their frontline. Fabricio Oberto, their best big sub, could become a free agent this summer. The smart, efficient Oberto has a chance to produce better numbers with a larger role on another team and he’s likely to receive some offers. If Oberto leaves and Robert Horry retires, the only frontcourt players left are Francisco Elson and Jackie Butler. The Spurs will need to give Duncan a little more help down low. Of course, when you are the Spurs, filling a need seems to be an easy task.

Free Throw: After watching the Spurs dismantle Cleveland in game one of the NBA Finals, I started to wonder. How many championships will they win by the time Duncan calls it a career? Sure, the West is tough and they’ll have to fight through Phoenix and Dallas the next couple of years, but they’ve proven they can beat both of those teams. They are on their way to their fourth championship in the Duncan era and I wouldn’t be surprised if they won two more by the time he is through. Matching the great Michael Jordan for championships would be incredible and it appears to be within reach.

Grade: A

Main State of the Cap Page

http://nbadraft.net/2007stateofthecapsanantonio001.asp

Well, the Spurs will have their MLE to use to go after some interesting free agents (Pietrus and Posey come to mind). Also there is a group of other potential free agents who depending on the price might be nice to tap to add some experienced depth (Pat Garrity, Grant Hill, Vitaly Potapenko, Devin Brown, Earl Boykins, Michael Doleac, Chucky Atkins, Joe Smith, Bonzi Wells, Matt Barnes, Jerry Stackhouse, PJ Brown). Then there are guys who would take a sign and trade but you never know (Nocioni, Gerald Wallace, and Primoz Brezec). Lastly, the Spurs can always tap some of the international players they have rights to if they so desire (Scola and Javtokas being the most NBA ready) and I guess they could always shock us and draft a NCAA player in the 1st round. I have a feeling that even if the Spurs are successful in this round we might see a fairly active Spurs offseason.

I hope people read this before making stupid fa suggestions

I heard spurs wanted to save the mle for this year that is why they did not use it last year
they also have the lle right?

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Originally Posted by ducks

I heard spurs wanted to save the mle for this year that is why they did not use it last year
they also have the lle right?

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They should.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

I heard spurs wanted to save the mle for this year that is why they did not use it last year
they also have the lle right?

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the spurs used the MLE last year on elson and butler, btw you can use it every year.

oh

Also, there are Jackie Butler and James White who are tantamount to recent draft picks. The author of the article is correct in that the Spurs could see a lot of turnover in the frontcourt. But then again, Oberto could stay and Horry might decide to hang around for one more season with Butler getting a spot in the rotation to keep Horry's regular season minutes down.

spurs need a long three this offseason IMO

Spurs also have Barry and Beno with contracts that will expire after the 2007-08 season which, when combined with a draft pick or the rights to one of the Spurs' international assets could provide the Spurs with a nice trade opportunity. As much as the Spurs seem to be down on Udrih, there seems to be a view in the league that he could be a nice player elsewhere. As much effort as teams expend looking for a quality point guard, he could draw some interest.

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Originally Posted by ducks

spurs need a long three this offseason IMO

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Well, they do have a nice prospect in James White. They also could go after Pietrus, Posey, and/or Nocioni. In addition Grant Hill is available.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Spurs also have Barry and Beno with contracts that will expire after the 2007-08 season which, when combined with a draft pick or the rights to one of the Spurs' international assets could provide the Spurs with a nice trade opportunity. As much as the Spurs seem to be down on Udrih, there seems to be a view in the league that he could be a nice player elsewhere. As much effort as teams expend looking for a quality point guard, he could draw some interest.

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i agree to that.

In some wierd way, it seems to be destiny the Grant will end up here. Old, but still good-a great guy deserving of a championship.

I dont think the Spurs should be interested in Posey, unless he plays for the LLE, no way he is worth a MLE contract & the Spurs FO is smart enough not to offer him a MLE contract. The best case scenario IMO would be the Spurs trade:

Scola
Beno
Barry
Butler and
pick(s)

to the Bulls for

Nocioni
Duhon and
Khrypa

Then we would still have the MLE to fill a need or two like getting another PF or a center or maybe both..maybe split the MLE between Melvin Ely, Joe Smith, PJ Brown, or Doleac.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Spurs also have Barry and Beno with contracts that will expire after the 2007-08 season which, when combined with a draft pick or the rights to one of the Spurs' international assets could provide the Spurs with a nice trade opportunity. As much as the Spurs seem to be down on Udrih, there seems to be a view in the league that he could be a nice player elsewhere. As much effort as teams expend looking for a quality point guard, he could draw some interest.

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I don't understand why people think the Spurs will trade the expiring contracts. Don't the Spurs creem themselves over expiring contracts, and now that they have a few of their own, why would they trade them away unless it was for a player that they would target in FA?

I do expect Beno to be traded though.

Posey would be a nice fit in SA. Can play the 3, defend, run the floor, good outside shot and only 30.

What will be most interesting to me is whether the Spurs add another other players to their long term plan. Right now after next season, only Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are on the books (plus they have an option on Butler).

Will the Spurs limit everyone to one-year contracts like they have in the past or will their main goal be a 2008 championship?

We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Despot

I don't understand why people think the Spurs will trade the expiring contracts. Don't the Spurs creem themselves over expiring contracts, and now that they have a few of their own, why would they trade them away unless it was for a player that they would target in FA?

I do expect Beno to be traded though.

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Why not use those if they can take back better talent?

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Posey would be a nice fit in SA. Can play the 3, defend, run the floor, good outside shot and only 30.

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It's eerie how much Posey 2007 = Bowen 2001.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Posey would be a nice fit in SA. Can play the 3, defend, run the floor, good outside shot and only 30.

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For the LLE not a MLE contract.

what about Finley? is Cuban still have one more yr to pay him?
I think the Spurs needs to pick who shld stay- Finley & Barry.

and add a Bruce Bowen understudy, he's almost 36 yrs old. They need to train a young SG and Bruce show him the works.

I would rather aquire a SF through a S&T, someone like Nocioni or Pietrus & us the MLE on other position(s) of need.

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Originally Posted by milkyway21

what about Finley? is Cuban still have one more yr to pay him?
I think the Spurs needs to pick who shld stay- Finley & Barry.

and add a Bruce Bowen understudy, he's almost 36 yrs old. They need to train a young SG and Bruce show him the works.

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Finley will be the one that stays, they will probably use Barry's expiring & Scolas rights as the centerpiece to a S&T for a SF

We need a young SF more than we need a SG, but I would take Pietrus(he can play both) if we cant get Nocioni.

I don't see why the Spurs are thinking of extending Duncan's contract.

isn't it a little bit early to extend his contract this yr?

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Why not use those if they can take back better talent?

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I guess I am of the belief that the Spurs '08 plan is to find the next Spurs saviour.

Doesn't Duncan have a player's option in '08? Spurs hopefully have a convincing game plan to keep him from straying.

Potential '08 Free Agents

Josh Childress
Gerald Wallace
Primoz Brezec
Luol Deng
Chris Duhon
Ben Gordon
DeSagana Diop
Devin Harris
Carlos Delfino
Andris Biedrins
David Harrison
Shaun Livingston
Kwame Brown
Ricky Davis
Nenad Krstic
Bostjan Nachbar
Jannero Pargo
Carlos Arroyo
Jameer Nelson
Dwight Howard
Kevin Martin
Mickael Gelable
Gordan Giricek
Jose Calderon

Some nice names, but experience has shown that it would be extremely difficult for the Spurs to try to attract an elite free agent to play with 3 other stars in small market San Antonio. Hopefully the Spurs aren't setting themselves up for yet another offseason disappointment. They could perhaps land a decent starter if they should open up some cap room but they might as well do what they can now to bring in talent via trades and smart role player free agent signings.

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Originally Posted by Despot

I guess I am of the belief that the Spurs '08 plan is to find the next Spurs saviour.

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They already have those guys.

i like Jose Calderon

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Originally Posted by milkyway21

I don't see why the Spurs are thinking of extending Duncan's contract.

isn't it a little bit early to extend his contract this yr?

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Its never too early to lock up the best basketball player in the game. If SA gets the chance to extend TD this summer, you do it, especially since if he did sign a extension, it would void his player option in 08'.

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Originally Posted by Big P

Finley will be the one that stays, they will probably use Barry's expiring & Scolas rights as the centerpiece to a S&T for a SF

We need a young SF more than we need a SG, but I would take Pietrus(he can play both) if we cant get Nocioni.

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I'm sorry I meant SF like Bruce.:D

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Doesn't Duncan have a player's option in '08? Spurs hopefully have a convincing game plan to keep him from straying.

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I think that unfortunately that is why the Spurs seem to have an '08 plan'. The way you keep TD is by doing whatever you can to improve this team today.

You can mark off:

Gerald Wallace
Luol Deng
Ben Gordon
Devin Harris
Andris Biedrins
Dwight Howard off that list, those guys will probably be extended this summer.

Childress, Brezec, Diop, Delfino,Kristic,Gelabale & claderon are interesting, although most of them will sign extensions as well.

The other players, I would be interested in for short cheap contracts, they are all roleplayers.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

They already have those guys.

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I don't mean to sound combative, but can Tony lead us to a couple of Finals after Duncan retires? Manu is winding down, I hope you are not betting the house on White and Butler.

I always hear about the '08 plan, the most obvious target would be Howard, now if he extends, that may make the spurs pursue a big trade next year. I am sure Deng and Gordon will extend.

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Originally Posted by Despot

I don't mean to sound combative, but can Tony lead us to a couple of Finals after Duncan retires? Manu is winding down, I hope you are not betting the house on White and Butler.

I always hear about the '08 plan, the most obvious target would be Howard, now if he extends, that may make the spurs pursue a big trade next year. I am sure Deng and Gordon will extend.

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If Duncan was 35 I might be worried.

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Originally Posted by Big P

You can mark off:

Gerald Wallace
Luol Deng
Ben Gordon
Devin Harris
Andris Biedrins
Dwight Howard off that list, those guys will probably be extended this summer.

Childress, Brezec, Diop, Delfino,Kristic,Gelabale & claderon are interesting, although most of them will sign extensions as well.

The other players, I would be interested in for short cheap contracts, they are all roleplayers.

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Gerald Wallace is already a lock?

only 24 yrs of age. 18 ppg this reg season(2 stl PG, 1 blk PG), you think he's got what it takes to be the next Bruce Bowen? He's good defensively, right? and he can score. :eyebrows

I'm not sure Wallace will be extended this summer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Despot

I don't mean to sound combative, but can Tony lead us to a couple of Finals after Duncan retires? Manu is winding down, I hope you are not betting the house on White and Butler.

I always hear about the '08 plan, the most obvious target would be Howard, now if he extends, that may make the spurs pursue a big trade next year. I am sure Deng and Gordon will extend.

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Duncan isn't retiring after next year. Barring injury, he's got at least four years at his current level and maybe seven or eight. He doesn't dominate with his leaping ability or his speed.

Howard will extend. Waste to discuss him. That's like the Lakers' '07 plan where they were targeting Yao, Amare, Bosh but even less likely since SA is a small market.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

I'm not sure Wallace will be extended this summer.

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Wallace has a PO next year for $6 mil...he already said he is opting out & is looking for a contract starting at around $9-10 mil per year.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Duncan isn't retiring after next year. Barring injury, he's got at least four years at his current level and maybe seven or eight. He doesn't dominate with his leaping ability or his speed.

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I know, his contract ends in '10, and I believe he could play at close to the same level until his body starts to break down since he does not rely on athleticism or speed.

My concern is will he want to play past 2010? If we win this year, annd get at least one, maybe two before then, will he consider leaving the game? And if he does, will we be prepared? Having another big man might help him decide to keep going at it a few more years.

I just don't think it is a sure thing that he will keep playing after '10. I am pretty sure that Spurs fans are more concerned about his legacy than he is.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's eerie how much Posey 2007 = Bowen 2001.

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Really it isn't...they've both been coached and given good advice by Pat Riley.

I am not as impressed with Posey as you guys(although I'd take him)...but Bruce has long said Riley is the guy that told him if he wanted to stay in the NBA he needed to focus on his defense.

Just the fucking THOUGHT of Gerald Wallace on this team makes me believe in four MORE championships till TD retires...

Who knows...Nelly may want Scola...he needs a scoring big, he also wants to screw Cuban, yet at the same time is probably confident enough that he can beat us even if he does a trade with us...

I see the Spurs possibly landing Jack or Pietrus.


And James White is not a long three by any stretch. He's also not a rebounder.

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Originally Posted by MrChug

Just the fucking THOUGHT of Gerald Wallace on this team makes me believe in four MORE championships till TD retires...

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Yeah...I just don't see any scenario that ends with us landing a player of that caliber with what we have to trade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big P

Wallace has a PO next year for $6 mil...he already said he is opting out & is looking for a contract starting at around $9-10 mil per year.

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good news : opting out

bad news(?) : $9-10m/yr :oops

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's eerie how much Posey 2007 = Bowen 2001.

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No doubt. The only thing uncertain is how much Posey would go for an unguaranteed starting role in SA. But otherwise he would be a very nice fit. Also interesting to think of him and Bowen playing together.

When the Spurs face Dallas the Spurs could go small with Posey at the 4 on Dirk and Bruce at the 3 on Howard.

Hmmm. :smokin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Hopefully the Spurs aren't setting themselves up for yet another offseason disappointment. .

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That worm has long since turned Mr. Bryant...

These days young ballas like James White and Jackie Butler giggle like schoolgirls when the Spurs come calling...as do aging vets. Since 2005 the Spurs haven't had much trouble getting FA to want to play here.


I think it's because...

#1. Jack has probably told them the quality of Centex Weed.
#2. That third championship put us at elite status with the players, if not the fans.
#3. Robert Horry exudes coolness...if he wants to be here...others are taking notice.



Pietrus is on record as saying he wants to play for the Spurs.

Most of the kids in the NBA thesedays have grown up watching the Spurs play for championships.

Nah, the Spurs will still have trouble trying to land a free agent who can be a #2 man elsewhere. Guys like Butler and White are still trying to make it in this league.

Just a question, not saying it will happen.

If Duncan opted out in '08, could he resign for less? $10m, vet min., whatever?

Yes.

call me, crazy but I like Rush the hurt college player he's a good gamble and the Spurs can afford to wait for him go draft him and if Oberto leaves please get Joe Smith I liked him since his Maryland days, also I live in Miami and have seen Posey play Bowen with less defense he can be taught for sure

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Originally Posted by thekingrobert

please get Joe Smith

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I liked Joe Smith since he pissed David off so much he started to care about winning.

Mickael Pietrus just said on the french TV that if he had an opportunity to sign with the Spurs he would do it, the reason ? Spurs win titles and they take care of their players.

He also predicted that the Spurs will sweep Cleveland on their way to a 4th championship !

Here are the links for those who speak french :

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQOS.html

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQRi.html

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Nah, the Spurs will still have trouble trying to land a free agent who can be a #2 man elsewhere.

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We haven't tried in 4 years.

And it depends on the #2 man.

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Guys like Butler and White are still trying to make it in this league.

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And in the case of White, could have gotten more PT elsewhere for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriciergris

Mickael Pietrus just said on the french TV that if he had an opportunity to sign with the Spurs he would do it, the reason ? Spurs win titles and they take care of their players.

He also predicted that the Spurs will sweep Cleveland on their way to a 4th championship !

Here are the links for those who speak french :

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQOS.html

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQRi.html

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Nice. Welcome :tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriciergris

Mickael Pietrus just said on the french TV that if he had an opportunity to sign with the Spurs he would do it, the reason ? Spurs win titles and they take care of their players.

He also predicted that the Spurs will sweep Cleveland on their way to a 4th championship !

Here are the links for those who speak french :

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQOS.html

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQRi.html

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Fucking awsome! :toast

I'd love to have Pietrus on this team.

I'd KILL to have Nocioni. He's so underrated in Chicago's system of endless Small Forwards. He's exactly the type of player that would flourish in our system.

Doubt we could get both, but if I had to choose, I'd take Noc. He could be a great defender some day.

What would we have to give up to get him or Pietrus?

james white is gonna be a stephen jackson

I think Jack is a good deal bigger than White.

White is about the same size as Bowen...

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionIm...nota_id=916108

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriciergris

Mickael Pietrus just said on the french TV that if he had an opportunity to sign with the Spurs he would do it, the reason ? Spurs win titles and they take care of their players.

He also predicted that the Spurs will sweep Cleveland on their way to a 4th championship !

Here are the links for those who speak french :

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQOS.html

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQRi.html

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Could one of you numerous French people on this forum translate the main things he said please!

Sounded like he was full of praise for the Spurs but i want to know the specifics.

Doest he lower his own value if he would in the end really sign with the spurs with statements like this? (from his own personal standpoint)

I never understood players who rather earn 60mil and end their careers without any achivements than those earning 40mil and are part of championship teams and are signed into history of basketball.

So respect to the guy!

everyhting he said of the spurs has already been translated..There arent any offers, talks for the time being, only rumours he said..And hell be the first to tell if there ARE talks..He also said he loves playing for Don Nelson..

I think he cant wait to play for the spurs..the way he talked and his smile just said it all..

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Originally Posted by Bruno

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionIm...nota_id=916108

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So Pop really likes the guy..
Really hope we see him in aspurs uniform next year

Scola nd Pietrus, those are the guys i want on our team next year!

at this point, i just hope the spurs get someone. All the criticism this team was facing in January is still true today. The spurs did get old and they did lose alot of athleticism .


and they need that mother fucking long 3

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Potential '08 Free Agents


Some nice names, but experience has shown that it would be extremely difficult for the Spurs to try to attract an elite free agent to play with 3 other stars in small market San Antonio. Hopefully the Spurs aren't setting themselves up for yet another offseason disappointment. They could perhaps land a decent starter if they should open up some cap room but they might as well do what they can now to bring in talent via trades and smart role player free agent signings.

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It takes a special character-guy to leave his ego behind and join a proven group of All-stars where the emphasis is on TEAM. So you're right, the list of elite players of that character is probably very small.

Given that we have the Big 3 in place, we're probably gonna go for a role player in FA, not a star or future star.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan

at this point, i just hope the spurs get someone. All the criticism this team was facing in January is still true today. The spurs did get old and they did lose alot of athleticism.

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Yeah the Spurs weren't able to score on the Jazz, and the Nuggets and Suns were able to run on them at will. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionIm...nota_id=916108

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Might need to tap Scola this summer depending on what happens with Horry and Oberto.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriciergris

Mickael Pietrus just said on the french TV that if he had an opportunity to sign with the Spurs he would do it, the reason ? Spurs win titles and they take care of their players.

He also predicted that the Spurs will sweep Cleveland on their way to a 4th championship !

Here are the links for those who speak french :

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQOS.html

http://video.lequipe.fr/video/iLyROoaftQRi.html

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Hope so. Of course, he's a free agent so it would help him to have a serious suitor. He has the physical tools to be a very good defender. Master Bruce could train him in the art.

I'd be surprised if Oberto leaves. He'll get a good enough money offer here, and even if it's less than some others...I see him staying.

Finley took 1 season to get adjusted to his role, can the same be said of Posey?
IMO Posey, by the time he's adjusted, 2 seasons will have gone by. He strikes me as having the same BB IQ as Elson w/o the speed. He is a maverick and keeps to his own agenda, from what I've seen and heard and lets his anger take over his ability to execute on the court, won't that raise tensions.

People love to be associated with success and I'm guessing the success the Spurs have enjoyed over the long haul will recharge the game of hoops in a positive way while still leaving plenty of room for ball-hoggers and me firsts Mr. Endorsement types of players.

Thanks for the salary cap info, Ducks.

did not ludden have an article about extensing duncan this offseason

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan

at this point, i just hope the spurs get someone. All the criticism this team was facing in January is still true today. The spurs did get old and they did lose alot of athleticism .


and they need that mother fucking long 3

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:lol You're such a freaking idiot. Wtf do you measure athleticism by? Manu's not athletic? Tony's not? Bowen isn't obviously, because it doesn't take an ounce of athleticism to shut down scorers. Other teams in the NBA would kill for our "athleticism". Way to bring a completely non-measurable stat that means jack shit into the discussion.

Elson's a hell of an athletic player. Does that make him a 20-10 guy? Finley obviously has nothing athletic about him, that's why he's been defending like crazy these playoffs.

I am actually questioning if you're a Spurs fan at this point. Seriously.

But obviously a team that's steamrolling through the playoffs and is already being compared to the great playoff squads of all time isn't "athletic" enough for you. :rolleyes

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If Oberto leaves and Robert Horry retires, the only frontcourt players left are Francisco Elson and Jackie Butler.

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What about Ely??

I wish we could talk Horry into retiring

So by all the reports that have been released during the last month, the roster could look like:

C OBERTO/ELSON/BUTLER
PF DUNCAN/SCOLA/HORRY/BONNER
SF BOWEN/PIETRUS/WHITE/DUDLEY
SG MANU/FINLEY/BARRY
PG TONY/VAUGHN/BENO/PRUITT

That's a pretty solid roster, but obviously that's too many players, so does anyone have any reasonable trade ideas to slim down the roster and get better?

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I wish we could talk Horry into retiring

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congrats on another stupid statement.

It is possible that Barry, Beno, Butler & Scolas rights are traded. If that package could get us Nocioni & Duhon & possibly Khrypa, I would make that trade.

There is no guarantee that Bonner comes back.

Oberto has a PO, but I'm pretty sure he will pick it up & be here next year.

If we can't get Nocioni using Scola, I would rather do a S&T with GS using Barry, Beno, Butler & picks to get Pietrus & Jasikevicius, then split the MLE between Scola & Bonner or if Bonner goes somewhere else, maybe Ely.

Quote:

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That's a pretty solid roster, but obviously that's too many players, so does anyone have any reasonable trade ideas to slim down the roster and get better?

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cut Beno and trade Barry for a hot dog.

problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

You're such a freaking idiot. Wtf do you measure athleticism by? Manu's not athletic? Tony's not? Bowen isn't obviously, because it doesn't take an ounce of athleticism to shut down scorers. Other teams in the NBA would kill for our "athleticism". Way to bring a completely non-measurable stat that means jack shit into the discussion.

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You're an idiot if you think this team is fine in the athleticism department.

Manu is 30, I'll give you Tony, Bowen is 36 and won't be around for too much longer.

If you think we're athletic because we have a good 36 year old wing defender in the twilight of his career, I'd have to say you're the idiot in this discussion.

We're talking about the next 5-6 years of having to check guys like Howard, McGrady, Marion, Diaw, etc.

Or do you think a 41 year old Bowen is going to be locking those guys down? :lmao

James White!

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Originally Posted by T Park

cut Beno and trade Barry for a hot dog.

problem solved.

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It's always about food with you isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Big P

It is possible that Barry, Beno, Butler & Scolas rights are traded. If that package could get us Nocioni & Duhon & possibly Khrypa, I would make that trade.

There is no guarantee that Bonner comes back.

Oberto has a PO, but I'm pretty sure he will pick it up & be here next year.

If we can't get Nocioni using Scola, I would rather do a S&T with GS using Barry, Beno, Butler & picks to get Pietrus & Jasikevicius, then split the MLE between Scola & Bonner or if Bonner goes somewhere else, maybe Ely.

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Ugh, we aren't even in the off-season yet and people are already brining their crack induced trade ideas to the table.

Barry, Beno, Butler & Scola for Nocioni and Duhon? :lol Why stop there? I bet we could send those four to Phoenix for Diaw and Marion. Seriously, Paxson would still be laughing in September at that trade offer.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

You're an idiot if you think this team is fine in the athleticism department.

Manu is 30, I'll give you Tony, Bowen is 36 and won't be around for too much longer.

If you think we're athletic because we have a good 36 year old wing defender in the twilight of his career, I'd have to say you're the idiot in this discussion.

We're talking about the next 5-6 years of having to check guys like Howard, McGrady, Marion, Diaw, etc.

Or do you think a 41 year old Bowen is going to be locking those guys down? :lmao

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That's not what I'm saying. Did you not see my earlier post where I stated I would practically beg for Nocioni?

I'm saying THIS team. The team we have right now, is fine athletically.

Stating we have to make trades to stay young and athletic is kind of redundant. Almost every team in the league has to do the same.

THIS team though, is fine, in the athletic department. I think even for next year we're okay, but we need to start making trades. The poster I responded to said that "all the criticism of this team in January is still true".

How you can say that about the hottest team in the league who's about to pull down the title without going to a single game 7 and only 1 (maybe 2) game 6's against the most "athletic" teams in the league is just silly.

Heck, Oberto isn't young. I have to wonder how much longer he'll be effective for.

We need:

A 3 to replace Bowen, which we have the opportunity for this season.

A 4/5 to play post up, who can run (hopefully).

And a serviceable backup PG, which tend to be not as hard to find as a great 3 defender or a 4/5 player.

So in that order, let's go get 'em.

What do you think we could offer to pick up Noc, Aggie?

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Originally Posted by Clutch20

Finley took 1 season to get adjusted to his role.

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Not that I am in the habit of defending Finley...but did you actually watch him play last season?

He was way better last year than he has been this season. He sucked and lost his job to Barry this season...and only got it back because Barry got injured.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

That's not what I'm saying. Did you not see my earlier post where I stated I would practically beg for Nocioni?

I'm saying THIS team. The team we have right now, is fine athletically.

THIS team though, is fine, in the athletic department. I think even for next year we're okay, but we need to start making trades. The poster I responded to said that "all the criticism of this team in January is still true".

What do you think we could offer to pick up Noc, Aggie?

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We're not fine athletically. Look at our rotation players at the 2-3:

Finley, 34
Bowen, 36
Manu, 30
Barry, 35

It's ignorant to say we're okay now, and that we'll be fine next year, when we didn't have to go up against the one team built to beat us - Dallas. We still don't have someone to match up with Dirk, and when we have to put Bowen on him that gives us no one to match up with Howard. So yes, the criticism about this team's personnel that was valid in January is still valid.

Further, it's pretty common knowledge that it takes a player a year to get up to speed on the 'corporate knowledge' required to play for the Spurs.

We need youth and athleticism and we need it in here next season. Both to start the learning process, and to keep the minutes down for those guys I just listed (you can even argue that there's a good chance Barry won't be around next year, so you're looking at a perimeter rotation with an average age of 33.

I think Nocioni is a pipe dream and people need to give up the idea of getting him. Chicago may trade him, but if they do they can get far more for him than the Spurs can give him (unless they decide to trade Manu, and we all know that ain't happening).

The reasonable targets for this summer for some athleticism are going to be Posey and Pietrus, and I would consider either of those a *good* summer.

We also need to make use of our draft picks in a very deep draft instead of doing the usual draft a Euro and stash him for 20 years shit we've been doing of late.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Ugh, we aren't even in the off-season yet and people are already brining their crack induced trade ideas to the table.

Barry, Beno, Butler & Scola for Nocioni and Duhon? :lol Why stop there? I bet we could send those four to Phoenix for Diaw and Marion. Seriously, Paxson would still be laughing in September at that trade offer.

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This trade has been discussed by Spurs & Bulls fans & the majority believe its a fair deal. Paxson has already said that he will shop Nocioni because they have Deng, TT & Sefolosha & they are in more need of a low post socerer than another SF. Nocioni has already said that he would love to play in SA., & he could try to force a trade to SA if he wants.The Bulls would be looking for low post scorer(Scola) & expring contracts Barry, Beno & Butler, picks would be added to sweeten the deal. Whats so "crack head" about it? You think Nocioni is going to return a superstar to the Bulls? Who cares if its not the offseason, this thread is called the "state of the cap", what did you think people were/are going to talk about?

The Spurs' window with the Big 3 ends in 3 years. Pietrus or Posey replacing Barry would indeed be a "good summer".

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Originally Posted by Big P

This trade has been discussed by Spurs & Bulls fans & the majority believe its a fair deal. Paxson has already said that he will shop Nocioni because they have Deng, TT & Sefolosha & they are in more need of a low post socerer than another SF. Nocioni has already said that he would love to play in SA., & he could try to force a trade to SA if he wants.The Bulls would be looking for low post scorer(Scola) & expring contracts Barry, Beno & Butler, picks would be added to sweeten the deal. Whats so "crack head" about it? You think Nocioni is going to return a superstar to the Bulls? Who cares if its not the offseason, this thread is called the "state of the cap", what did you think people were/are going to talk about?

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Since Nocioni is a free agent, anything is possible. Generally, teams don't retain players who wish to leave. The keys are 1) convincing the player to sign with your club and 2) coming up with an attractive package for that team. I think the Spurs can do both. In any event, it's worth the attempt.

Also, Spurs fans need to stop worrying about 2013. The key is to make the most of the next 3 or so seasons with the best player in the game.

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This trade has been discussed by Spurs & Bulls fans & the majority believe its a fair deal. Paxson has already said that he will shop Nocioni because they have Deng, TT & Sefolosha & they are in more need of a low post socerer than another SF.

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Most Spurs fans think it's fair, when in reality it would be highway robbery. Bulls fans think it'd be a good deal? That's funny. Where are these fans?

I know Paxson will shop Nocioni, but to pretend he will trade a guy like that who can bring him back some usable parts for our discards is a joke.

Nocioni will have to agree to join the team that would offer a better return.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Most Spurs fans think it's fair, when in reality it would be highway robbery. Bulls fans think it'd be a good deal? That's funny. Where are these fans?

I know Paxson will shop Nocioni, but to pretend he will trade a guy like that who can bring him back some usable parts for our discards is a joke.

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On realgm, where thats all fans do is discuss trades.

Our "discards" bring back expiring contracts & servicable players, the 2 things Paxson will be looking for. If Nocioni decides that he wants to play in SA, Paxson will either lose him for nothing, or take back expirings plus a useful player like Scola. While Nocioni is a very nice player, he is not going to return a superstar to the Bulls & all the other players the Bull will be offered will more than likely have big contracts which Paxson will not take. It's not highway robbery, its a matter of both teams getting something that they need, the Spurs a SF & the Bulls, Scola & expiring contracts.

If Nocioni doesn't work out, if the Spurs can bring in Pietrus & Scola, I'll be happy.

I'm not sold at all on Nocioni being a good fit in SA.
IMO, he would only be good as a small ball PF but he would be average as a SF.

Bring in Pietrus!

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Originally Posted by Big P

On realgm, where thats all fans do is discuss trades.

Our "discards" bring back expiring contracts & servicable players, the 2 things Paxson will be looking for. If Nocioni decides that he wants to play in SA, Paxson will either lose him for nothing, or take back expirings plus a useful player like Scola. While Nocioni is a very nice player, he is not going to return a superstar to the Bulls & all the other players the Bull will be offered will more than likely have big contracts which Paxson will not take. It's not highway robbery, its a matter of both teams getting something that they need, the Spurs a SF & the Bulls, Scola & expiring contracts.

If Nocioni doesn't work out, if the Spurs can bring in Pietrus & Scola, I'll be happy.

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RealGM is about as good a place to get trade ideas as the ESPN message boards.

I'm sure the Spurs will try to see what it would take to get Nocioni, but bottom line is that at the point he is in his career, Andres is still going to be focused on the bottom line - $$$$. If some other team wants him and can give him two million more a year, he'll be there.

Sorry dude, but the fnas at realgm are alot more clued in than the espn message boards.

Nocioni will most likely be getting a $6-7 mil a year contract, more than a MLE contract, but no more than 1 or 2 mil over a MLE type deal. The Spurs can put together a offer that will pay Nocioni that much.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

:lol You're such a freaking idiot. Wtf do you measure athleticism by? Manu's not athletic? Tony's not? Bowen isn't obviously, because it doesn't take an ounce of athleticism to shut down scorers. Other teams in the NBA would kill for our "athleticism". Way to bring a completely non-measurable stat that means jack shit into the discussion.

Elson's a hell of an athletic player. Does that make him a 20-10 guy? Finley obviously has nothing athletic about him, that's why he's been defending like crazy these playoffs.

I am actually questioning if you're a Spurs fan at this point. Seriously.

But obviously a team that's steamrolling through the playoffs and is already being compared to the great playoff squads of all time isn't "athletic" enough for you. :rolleyes

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I would defend myself but aggie's done my work for me.

Wow talk about going out on a limb and looking like an asshole, you couldn't look more stupid right now.

NOT POSEY!!!!!!! He's a gansta-wannabe and doesn't look too bright.

I want Pietrus!