Spurs vs. Cavs Game 2 -- Grades

Tim Duncan
Duncan had an all around powerful contest in Game 2 of the NBA Finals. He dominated early and finished with 23 points, nine rebounds and eight assists, while connecting on 9-of-16 from the field and committing only one turnover. While he didn't have a blocked shot in the game, he was a force on that end of the court as well. As with rest of the team, his play suffered a bit at the end but he did more than enough to help the Spurs go up 2-0 in this best of seven series.
Grade: A-


Manu Ginobili
Ginobili was incredibly efficient in Game 2. He scored 25 points on only 11 field goal attempts. To go along with his points, he added six rebounds, three steals and two assists in only 28 minutes of play. His offensive production given his playing time was phenomenal. The only downside to Ginobili's game was his defense. After a stellar defensive performance in Game 1, he let his play on that end of the court slip a bit in the second contest of the series.
Grade: A-


Tony Parker
Parker is continuing his breakout playoff run. In Game 2 of the Finals, Parker again led the Spurs in scoring with 30 points on 13-for-20 shooting from the floor. With LeBron James guarding him for much of the game, the Spurs decided to take Parker off the ball and let him run through a myriad of screens to try to wear James down. Parker flourished in that role and was consistently the Spurs most successful offensive weapon throughout the game.
Grade: A-


Bruce Bowen
Bowen's numbers weren't pretty but he had another quality showing defensively. While James did score 25 points and hand out 6 assists, Bowen made him work for everything he got. Rarely did James run free or get anything easy. Offensively, it was more of a struggle for Bowen. He hit only 1-of-9 shots from the field in his 41 minutes of playing time.
Grade: B-


Fabricio Oberto
Oberto played 20 solid minutes for the Spurs. He only finished with four points and four rebounds, but he was physical and played smart basketball. With the series switching over to Cleveland for Game 3, the Spurs will need more from Oberto than they got in the first two games of the Finals.
Grade: B-


Michael Finley
For the second consecutive game, Finley had a tough night and saw little action in the second half. He finished 1-for-4 from the field in scoring two points in 15 minutes. The worst aspect of Finley's game was a couple of missed box outs that led to second chance point for the Cavs. Finley needs to straighten out his shot and play a more all around game from here on out.
Grade: C-


Robert Horry
Horry has had some good games in the playoffs this year but this game topped them all. Even with Big Three playing well, Horry was perhaps the best player on the court for the Spurs. His defense was outstanding. Horry pulled down nine rebounds and blocked five shots in 26 minutes of action. Offensively, Horry buried a three-pointer and two free throws while also handing out four assists. Horry's production was apparent in the plus/minus stat, where he led the Spurs with a +27.
Grade: A+


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn had his second straight solid outing for San Antonio. In 12 minutes, Vaughn scored two points, assisted on two baskets and pulled down three rebounds. He has proven to be a good matchup against the Cavaliers and can use his energy to cause havoc on the court.
Grade: B+


Francisco Elson
Elson had his moments in Game 2. He was 3-for-3 from the floor on his way to six points and three rebounds in 13 minutes. His defense was decent, although he was late on a couple rotations. The biggest negative against him was his far and away team worst plus/minus of -16.
Grade: B+


Brent Barry
Barry made a couple nice plays in the first half, including a slick pass to Elson for a dunk. However, the second half was a different story for Barry. He hurried a couple three-pointers that helped the Cavs find their way back into the game. His defense was also nothing to write home about in the second half.
Grade: C+


Pop
Pop's adjustment of taking Parker off the ball and forcing James to work defensively was a stroke of genius. Cleveland certainly doesn't want James chasing Parker around picks defensively, especially considering how much of the offensive load James has to carry. Pop also took advantage of the Cavs not doubling right away against Duncan in the first half. Pop does warrant some blame for his role in the near disastrous collapse in the fourth quarter. He seemed to step off the gas and the Cavs nearly made the Spurs pay dearly for that mistake.
Grade: B

Pop deserves an A+ for the hit he took. :lol

Really good solid grades. I just don't see what Tony has to do to get a solid A or A+...lol. He was absolutely excellent today. With his points and aggression. This was just an off the charts game for him...

But yeah, it was an all around great game especially by Robert/Manu/Tim/Tony. I think all of them could have easily gotten A+...And Bruce's defense was also right there. While, I seriously think Brent was the worst out there, with him missing all those open 3s...and just not doing much of anything. Michael wasn't all that great either, but at least he didn't try to force as many shots as Brent.

brent barry D
pop C

barry took sum really dumb shots..ive lost count on how many airballs hes had in the playoffs....

pop shoulda rub it in ther face and left the starters in till about 5 min left in the game...took way to long to make a substitution ...

overall i think ur on point...GO SPURS..

I agree with it 100%.

Bruce did allow James a lot more in scoring but he was on the bench when it happened. I noticed James was one time a little bit rattled when Bruce was around :D

But :tu Horry is the man on defense in game 2. He deserves an A+

Manu & TP should have deserved an A. They were excellent today!

What game were you watching out there? B+ for Vaughn, B+ for Elson? Their atrocious defense was a major reason the Cavs put that big run on us late. Vaughn lost Gibson repeatedly and Elson was soft as hell inside.

They (and Brent) were the main reason Cleveland got back into the game. Also, if you wanted to pick on Manu's defense, you could've mentioned that Tony was pretty lazy on a few close outs of his own, and didn't get his hands up or contest threes very well.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

What game were you watching out there? B+ for Vaughn, B+ for Elson? Their atrocious defense was a major reason the Cavs put that big run on us late. Vaughn lost Gibson repeatedly and Elson was soft as hell inside.

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Graded on a curve.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

Also, if you wanted to pick on Manu's defense, you could've mentioned that Tony was pretty lazy on a few close outs of his own, and didn't get his hands up or contest threes very well.

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Of course.





Sounds like someone is overreacting to the Cavs making a run when the Spurs had stopped trying. Man up. 2-0.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Brent Barry
Barry made a couple nice plays in the first half, including a slick pass to Elson for a dunk. However, the second half was a different story for Barry. He hurried a couple three-pointers that helped the Cavs find their way back into the game. His defense was also nothing to write home about in the second half.
Grade: C+

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Just re-watched the second half. Barry takes a 3, misses, LeBronBron takes it the other way and lays it up. Other way 45 seconds later, Brent took an open 3, missed, Spurs got the offensive rebound, Brent took another open 3 missed and the Cavs took it the other way. LeBronBron took a 3, misses, Cavs got a rebound, Varejão makes a layup. Spurs take it the other way, Bowen misses a running jumper, Duncan misses the tip in, somewhere in there Barry misses another open 3, another offensive rebound and someone (Elson?) finally makes a layup. That's a swing of... 2. I'm going to have to call bullshit on Brent's shooting letting the Cavs back into the game. Much as it might pain the homers, if you want a reason why the Spurs offense ground to a screeching halt, why don't you look at the Spurs repeatedly running Four Down despite Duncan being crowded every time.

I don't see why everyone is ripping Barry for shooting...Finley does it and they think he's hard.


Pop finally has totally wrecked Barry to where all he does is chuck shots, because he gets yanked if he tries to actually play offense the way he knows how.

And of course...Spursfans still hate him....now it's because he takes bad shots or shoots the second he gets the ball...

The same thing he's been getting ripped for not doing since the day he signed with the team.

Double
Standard

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Originally Posted by Gerryatrics

Just re-watched the second half. Barry takes a 3, misses, LeBronBron takes it the other way and lays it up. Other way 45 seconds later, Brent took an open 3, missed, Spurs got the offensive rebound, Brent took another open 3 missed and the Cavs took it the other way. LeBronBron took a 3, misses, Cavs got a rebound, Varejão makes a layup. Spurs take it the other way, Bowen misses a running jumper, Duncan misses the tip in, somewhere in there Barry misses another open 3, another offensive rebound and someone (Elson?) finally makes a layup. That's a swing of... 2. I'm going to have to call bullshit on Brent's shooting letting the Cavs back into the game. Much as it might pain the homers, if you want a reason why the Spurs offense ground to a screeching halt, why don't you look at the Spurs repeatedly running Four Down despite Duncan being crowded every time.

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Well first of all, Barry was a -9 in the fourth quarter. Second of all, those fast shots early in the shot clock gave the Cavs more possessions to cut into the lead.

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Originally Posted by whottt

I don't see why everyone is ripping Barry for shooting...Finley does it and they think he's hard.


Pop finally has totally wrecked Barry to where all he does is chuck shots, because he gets yanked if he tries to actually play offense the way he knows how.

And of course...Spursfans still hate him.

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... and he decides to show up :reading

And by the way...I agree...if all Barry is going to do is chuck shots...I'd just as soon he not be on the court. WTG Pop.

at the end of each grading session you should name your MVP game of that game....and see if it comes out with who they pick....just so you have a paper trail in case theres a manu over timmy debate like in 05

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Originally Posted by timvp

... and he decides to show up :reading

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Well I thought about slamming TPark's "but he helped us close out Denver post"...

BFD, we were up 3-1 against an 8 seed.


That's not stepping up...that's capitalizing on the rest of the team relaxing with a big lead against an inferior opponent.

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Originally Posted by timvp

... and he decides to show up :reading

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Actually...I've been looking for your I'm sorry post from the first night of the season...

I want to plaigerize it when I apologize for picking the Cavs in 5. Was good stuff :tu

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Originally Posted by whottt

an 8 seed.

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:reading

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Originally Posted by whottt

Actually...I've been looking for your I'm sorry post from the first night of the season...

I want to plaigerize it when I apologize for picking the Cavs in 5. Was good stuff :tu

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Probably should wait until after the series. You wouldn't want to have to unapologize after you ended up being right like what happened to me.

:depressed

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Originally Posted by timvp

Probably should wait until after the series. You wouldn't want to have to unapologize after you ended up being right like what happened to me.

:depressed

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Originally Posted by whottt

Cavs in 5

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http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/reading.gif ;)

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Originally Posted by whottt

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/reading.gif ;)

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:lol

Point taken.

However, Cavs in 6 or 7 you would technically be right according to comments made prior to that prediction.

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Originally Posted by timvp

:lol

Point taken.

However, Cavs in 6 or 7 you would technically be right according to comments made prior to that prediction.

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TY and I appreciate the support, but I'd just as soon be wrong on that one ;)

I'm a little worried about Fin. He's been great the last few rounds, where has he gone.

His defense is still solid when he's in there, but we need him to step up offensively. And Pop seems worried, since he only played 15 min last night.

Elson looked worse out there because he was playing with the bench, and just like in Game 1, this team looks a lot worse without Parker running it. Vaughn has done a decent job this series so far, but as a team our second unit looks less sure of themselves, and is more prone to stupid turnovers.

Barry deserves an F. He isnt George Gervin...but he is certainly an "ice man"

as in ice cold...

B+ for Elson? I think timvp slacked off the 4th quarter, too.

I would've given Tony an A+. He was amazing at getting the team's offense going when we seemed to get stuck. Everytime you thought the Spurs couldn't buy a point to save their lives Tony comes in and roadrunned his way to the bucket for an easy 2. That or one of his patented tear drops. His defense was great as well I thought, he had a couple of steals there that really impacted the game.

Also, let's not forget that Brent also had an incredible out of bounds save in the 4th (after Timmy was clobbered) that led to Tony's layup (the one where he traveled; the one that 'stopped the bleeding').

I agree, Brent needs to step up his game. But he is not the reason we collapsed in the 4th.

In this case, the plus minus numbers don't lie. Elson was so abysmal in the fourth quarter, I'm not sure how stays in after the first time out. He had a turnover and three defensive lapses early that led to eight points, and he twice made Verajao look like Hakeem, left Marshall open for yet another three and he committed a stupid foul against Lebron. Elson played a big part in an 89-60 lead becoming a 95-84 lead. In his defense, he did score two of the six points the Spurs had in that stretch. He was personally responsible for

Barry took a three with 22 on the shot clock and another with 20 on the shot clock, both after offensive rebounds. I've long said that he should shoot when he's open, but if he can't recognize the situation of the game well enough to know that those are bad shots, his ass needs to be kept out of the rotation. I can forgive his airball because it was a hurried shot with two seconds on the clock.

Vaughn was a significant part of the fourth quarter collpase. He was dribbling without purpose. He gets a D for the second half.

dude comeon, open your eyes. Parker gotta get an A+

he's the #1 running for MVP

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Vaughn was a significant part of the fourth quarter collpase. He was dribbling without purpose. He gets a D for the second half.

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Wrong. Vaughn played really solid and scored two of the six points the Spurs had. The last ten points of that run were scored with Parker on the floor.

Pop was a fucking moron for putting in the shittiest line-ups that couldn't play any defense...ultimately leading to the Cavs dominating the Spurs in that 4th quarter.

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Originally Posted by ALVAREZ6

Pop was a fucking moron for putting in the shittiest line-ups that couldn't play any defense...ultimately leading to the Cavs dominating the Spurs in that 4th quarter.

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Or was he...

appropriate fear. I'd much rather Spurs head to Cleveland after almost blowing a lead, then heading to Cleveland overconfident like vs. the Pistons in 2005.

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

Or was he...

appropriate fear. I'd much rather Spurs head to Cleveland after almost blowing a lead, then heading to Cleveland overconfident like vs. the Pistons in 2005.

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Good point.... Maybe his most genius 'move' thusfar.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

In this case, the plus minus numbers don't lie. Elson was so abysmal in the fourth quarter, I'm not sure how stays in after the first time out. He had a turnover and three defensive lapses early that led to eight points, and he twice made Verajao look like Hakeem, left Marshall open for yet another three and he committed a stupid foul against Lebron. Elson played a big part in an 89-60 lead becoming a 95-84 lead. In his defense, he did score two of the six points the Spurs had in that stretch. He was personally responsible for

Barry took a three with 22 on the shot clock and another with 20 on the shot clock, both after offensive rebounds. I've long said that he should shoot when he's open, but if he can't recognize the situation of the game well enough to know that those are bad shots, his ass needs to be kept out of the rotation. I can forgive his airball because it was a hurried shot with two seconds on the clock.

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To be fair, Elson was having to cover for Vaughn and Oberto getting burned by their men on the perimeter.

As to making Varejao 'look like Hakeem', come on. Those were two of the ugliest shots I've seen in a long time, and if Varejao is going to hit those then you take your hat off to him, because he normally can't hit those types of shots.

That collapse in the fourth was mainly fueled by a combination of the crap lineup on the court, only running plays in that crap lineup for Vaughn, Bowen, and Oberto jump shots, and Barry taking three straight three points with a ton of time on the shot clock (including two of them after offensive rebounds where there was more than 20 seconds on the shot clock).

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

To be fair, Elson was having to cover for Vaughn and Oberto getting burned by their men on the perimeter.

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With all due respect, you are completely wrong. One of Jones' threes was because Elson was way out of position and Vaughn was covering Verajao in the paint (and blocked out really well). Elson routinely chased the ball around the perimeter, completely losing track of his man. Seriously, he looked like my border collie when someone throws a tennis ball. I watched the fourth quarter before making that post, and Elson was directly responsible for at least three of the wide open three pointers, and two of the layups. I absolutely do not understand how Pop left him in the game until he fouled Lebron under the basket ten points later.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

As to making Varejao 'look like Hakeem', come on. Those were two of the ugliest shots I've seen in a long time, and if Varejao is going to hit those then you take your hat off to him, because he normally can't hit those types of shots.

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First of all, Elson gave him about 8 feet and let him face up. He then bit on a terrible fake and jumped late for one basket and then just kind of fell down trying to draw a charge and allowed him another easy basket. If Verajao is going to miss shots like that he has no business being in the league. They were not high degree of difficulty shots by any stretch of the imagination.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

That collapse in the fourth was mainly fueled by a combination of the crap lineup on the court, only running plays in that crap lineup for Vaughn, Bowen, and Oberto jump shots, and Barry taking three straight three points with a ton of time on the shot clock (including two of them after offensive rebounds where there was more than 20 seconds on the shot clock).

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There were no plays run for those guys, they were bad decisions to shoot on the part of the players because the offense was grinding to a halt. Vaughn did a good job of keeping the ball moving and hitting his teammates while they were open, and he hit his one jumper in rhythm. Manu and Barry were the primary decision makers during that stretch and they were both terrible, each taking quick shots and holding the ball too long. Bowen tried to create his own shots off the dribble and Oberto decided to shoot from 18 feet out. The Spurs were already celebrating the victory and made poor decisions on offense while Elson did his damage on the defensive end. It's no surprise Pop put Duncan in and called four down. Duncan got a bunch of good looks but he just couldn't get them to fall.

Pop should have put the starters back in after the first Cav run took it down to 19 points. This is the fucking playoff for the Championship. Put your foot on their neck and don't let them up.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Pop should have put the starters back in after the first Cav run took it down to 19 points. This is the fucking playoff for the Championship. Put your foot on their neck and don't let them up.

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

Or was he...

appropriate fear. I'd much rather Spurs head to Cleveland after almost blowing a lead, then heading to Cleveland overconfident like vs. the Pistons in 2005.

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Fuck that, we gotta send a message...all the casual dumbfucks will be saying "oh but the Cavs almost came back, twice!"... blah blah blah.


I'm pretty confident, actually 100% confident, that the Spurs will win this series and be 2007 Champions. Cleveland's not coming back.

Ohhh...The Humanity... :dramaquee

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Pop should have put the starters back in after the first Cav run took it down to 19 points. This is the fucking playoff for the Championship. Put your foot on their neck and don't let them up.

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Manu and Bowen were in for the first part of it, Duncan (who came back in at 19) and Parker and Bowen were in for the second part of it. The Spurs were playing pretty gutless on both ends and Duncan rimmed out at least three shots. Everyone lost focus and the Cavs took advantage of it. Pop can use this to beat on everybody until Tuesday and the Cavs are going to get it handed to them again and Pop's not likely to reward anyone with rest in the fourth quarter this time.

I can assure you, if the Spurs have a 50-point lead in the closeout game, the starters will play until the Cavs wave the white flag. This was a game 2 mistake that won't happen again. Knock'em down, keep'em down.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Graded on a curve.

Of course.



Sounds like someone is overreacting to the Cavs making a run when the Spurs had stopped trying. Man up. 2-0.

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No, it's not like I ever thought we were going to lose. I'm not TPark freaking out or anything like that, I just don't think anybody besides the big three and Horry played particularly well, even grading on the curve.

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Originally Posted by hater

dude comeon, open your eyes. Parker gotta get an A+

he's the #1 running for MVP

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LJ never wrote it, but I think the reason for Tony being dropped to an A- was his defense... offensively he was pretty damn good, so LJ had to drop the grade for something.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Well first of all, Barry was a -9 in the fourth quarter. Second of all, those fast shots early in the shot clock gave the Cavs more possessions to cut into the lead.

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Since when does Pop care about the shot clock? Sorry, I know Brent played poorly in that second half, but I agree with this poster. Pop goes on and on about Finley being benched if he DOESN'T shoot, and I think Brent gets the same standard.

I think the only guys on this team that can get in trouble shooting early on the clock are Tony and Manu, because it would mean they didn't make any kind of pass at all or initiate the offense, but if Fin or Brent shoot early, it means we got into the offense early and a couple of passes were still made.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

Since when does Pop care about the shot clock? Sorry, I know Brent played poorly in that second half, but I agree with this poster. Pop goes on and on about Finley being benched if he DOESN'T shoot, and I think Brent gets the same standard.

I think the only guys on this team that can get in trouble shooting early on the clock are Tony and Manu, because it would mean they didn't make any kind of pass at all or initiate the offense, but if Fin or Brent shoot early, it means we got into the offense early and a couple of passes were still made.

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That's ridiculous. You don't jack up a three with 22 seconds on the clock immediately after an offensive rebound when you are trying to keep a lead. Barry was on cleanup duty; he's not a starter anymore so being aware of the situation is paramount. He was in the game with Vaughn in Manu's role, as the guy who initiates the offense. He didn't get those passes on kickouts, he got them from guys on the perimeter and he just threw it up there rather than trying to let the offense develop. Maybe you don't know enough not to do that twice, but Brent Barry damn well should. There's no problem letting him shoot during the quarter to try to get his shooting touch back, but those weren't in the flow of the offense, and they certainly weren't good shots, particularly given the situation.

They were wide open threes OV... since when do we not want Brent to shoot wide open threes? I think the only reason people are upset is because the shots missed, but the ones he missed were just as open as the one he made.

It's like in baseball, you want to work the pitcher and make him throw a lot and tire him out, but you know he's only going to give you one meatball per at bat, so if you happen to get that meatball in the first pitch, you have to swing at it, right?

I'm not sure what Elson others have been watching this playoffs, but this is how he plays defense. He's usually out of position, slow to react, etc. It just becomes more pronounced when there are shooters on the court that he has to rotate to.

Elson has played well defensively approximately 1.5 games this playoffs. Last night was about par for the playoffs for him defensively. Add to that the fact that he was the team's leading scorer outside of the Big Three and this had to be considered an above average game from him.

Jacque Vaughn was a +9 coming into the fourth quarter. That's ungodly for Vaughn. And in the fourth, I don't see how it was much his fault. For the first two minutes of the quarter, Pop had a lineup in with no scorers other than Manu -- and Manu wasn't trying to score. That led to a -8 in the first two minutes. Vaughn stayed on for another two minutes when Duncan came in and he was +0 in that time.

So yeah, Vaughn being a +9 for the whole time he's on the court outside of a two minute stretch is a good game from Vaughn.

Obstructed is right in regards to Barry. The Spurs were up 19 with eight minutes to go and Barry took two three-pointers in a span of five seconds. Pop wants Barry to shoot when open, but he has to be aware of the time and score. And it's not like Barry has been automatic in these playoffs.

Especially with Duncan on the court, you pull that out and get a good shot. You get a bucket there to push the game back into the 20's and you can break the Cavs' spirit. Instead Barry takes two threes, the first with 14 on the shot clock, the second with 20 on the shot clock.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

They were wide open threes OV... since when do we not want Brent to shoot wide open threes?

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We want Barry to shoot when he gets the ball on kickouts within the flow of the game when he's in the game as a shooter. We do NOT want him to shoot when he's in the game as the guy initiating the offense and there's 22 seconds on the shot clock after an offensive rebound and the Spurs are trying to hold a lead. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The Spurs didn't need three points, they needed to burn some clock and get their offense going again to try to stop the momentum of a good young team on a run. Jacking up a jumper without even burning any clock doesn't do ANY of those things. It's like saying that Chris Webber was right to call time out because you are supposed to call time out in that situation.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

I think the only reason people are upset is because the shots missed, but the ones he missed were just as open as the one he made.

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No if the shot had gone in he'd have just been running up the score. The Spurs should have at least been burning clock to slow down the pace of the game and calm down the run. He didn't. It was stupid basketball, and he probably won't get any minutes in game three as a result unless Finley is abysmal again.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

It's like in baseball, you want to work the pitcher and make him throw a lot and tire him out, but you know he's only going to give you one meatball per at bat, so if you happen to get that meatball in the first pitch, you have to swing at it, right?

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In that scenario, Barry stepped out of the batter's box and got called out without taking a single pitch. Twice.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

In this case, the plus minus numbers don't lie. Elson was so abysmal in the fourth quarter, I'm not sure how stays in after the first time out. He had a turnover and three defensive lapses early that led to eight points, and he twice made Verajao look like Hakeem, left Marshall open for yet another three and he committed a stupid foul against Lebron. Elson played a big part in an 89-60 lead becoming a 95-84 lead. In his defense, he did score two of the six points the Spurs had in that stretch. He was personally responsible for

Barry took a three with 22 on the shot clock and another with 20 on the shot clock, both after offensive rebounds. I've long said that he should shoot when he's open, but if he can't recognize the situation of the game well enough to know that those are bad shots, his ass needs to be kept out of the rotation. I can forgive his airball because it was a hurried shot with two seconds on the clock.

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Elson played very bad in the 4th quarter. He didn´t his work. Instead of helping, he has made things worse.
I disagree whit timvp. Elson deservers C+.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I'm not sure what Elson others have been watching this playoffs, but this is how he plays defense.

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I have never seen Elson chase the ball around the perimeter like they are playing keep away from him, running over his teammates in the process and just ignoring his assignment. He's NEVER been allowed to stay in the game that long when he's fucking up. Ever. Pop has pulled his ass for rotating too slowly. Last night he was getting caught at the top of the key with nobody within ten feet of him. It was pathetic, and it was not representative of anything I've seen him do this postseason. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I have never seen Elson chase the ball around the perimeter like they are playing keep away from him, running over his teammates in the process and just ignoring his assignment. He's NEVER been allowed to stay in the game that long when he's fucking up. Ever. Pop has pulled his ass for rotating too slowly. Last night he was getting caught at the top of the key with nobody within ten feet of him. It was pathetic, and it was not representative of anything I've seen him do this postseason. Not even close.

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Looked like the same Elson I've watched all year. Only difference is that his man was Marshall (a three-pointer shooter) and he was running to cover Gibson and D. Jones (two more three-point shooters). His rotations are usually bad but it usually isn't as noticeable because he's not near the three point line.

The fact that he had to guard Marshall just brought it out more into the open so it was easier to notice.

I couldn't watch the game ... what happened to Beno?

If he'd played that way all year Butler'd be suiting up for playoff games.

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Originally Posted by milkyway21

I agree with it 100%.

Bruce did allow James a lot more in scoring but he was on the bench when it happened. I noticed James was one time a little bit rattled when Bruce was around :D

But :tu Horry is the man on defense in game 2. He deserves an A+

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Yeah, actually, didn't James' big run happen when Bruce was on the bench, getting his rest? Then I saw that once James started rolling, Pop put Bruce right back in there.

Plus I just think all the substitutions were pretty bad. And Manu wasn't even getting the ball or any plays during that time. All I saw was Brent shooting his 3 3s and missing ALL of them! Not even passing the ball to Manu or any other player for that matter...There was no ball movement. Just careless shots by Barry. Here is to hoping that Pop won't give Brent such big minutes in Cleveland!

Fin might not be doing so well, at all...but at least he isn't selfishly shooting the ball when it's just not coming...you know.


Also gotta give both Tony and Manu big props. That was a huge play by Manu right at the end, after the Cavs made their run. The 4 point play made it a 12 point difference...there was still time left on the clock. So that was an enormous play by Manu. And also, Tony is just playing the best game of his career, literally!

Manu and Tony had plenty of rotten plays and ill advised shots during the run. Don't put it all on Barry.

The two worst 5-combinations with a +/- of -10 were:

Barry, Bowen, Duncan, Elson, Parker
Bowen, Vaughn, Elson, Ginobili, Oberto

It's weird that Bowen and Elson were the common factors.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Manu and Tony had plenty of rotten plays and ill advised shots during the run. Don't put it all on Barry.

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Whats your game 3 take?

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Pop should have put the starters back in after the first Cav run took it down to 19 points. This is the fucking playoff for the Championship. Put your foot on their neck and don't let them up.

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Hell yeah...if we win by 41 instead of 11, so fucking what??? Crush the Cavs...see them driven before you...hear the lamentations of their fans... :flipoff

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Manu and Tony had plenty of rotten plays and ill advised shots during the run. Don't put it all on Barry.

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I'm not blaming everything on Brent at all...I'm simply pointing out that he missed like 3 consecutive 3s...some of those were airballs...lol. That was during which time the Cavs got their big run...

Um, as for Tony, what kind a rotten play did he pull? Just wondering...Cuz to me, it seemed, like he was the best player out there...

And as for Manu, the dude had 25 points, plus that huge 4 point play...so one turnover is nothing compared to that.

Just want to know what "rotten plays and ill advised shots" did Manu and Tony pull?

Anyone else hate it when the Spurs are up 20+ points and they're still cranking up 3's?

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Originally Posted by timvp

... and he decides to show up :reading

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Hasn't Barry made some really nice passes this series for us?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Anyone else hate it when the Spurs are up 20+ points and they're still cranking up 3's?

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Yup...when you're up by 20+ in the 4th quarter, you need to do just one thing...RUN...OUT...THE...FUCKING...CLOCK!!! There should be no more than 5 or 6 seconds on the shot clock each time you take a shot.

Great grades

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Originally Posted by greenleo

I'm not blaming everything on Brent at all...I'm simply pointing out that he missed like 3 consecutive 3s...some of those were airballs...lol. That was during which time the Cavs got their big run...

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Agreed, and those were horrible. The whole point of having him on the team is for his basketball IQ. If he doesn't have that, Beno might as well be out there increasing his trade value.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

Um, as for Tony, what kind a rotten play did he pull? Just wondering...Cuz to me, it seemed, like he was the best player out there...

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He probably was, but that ain't saying much. He lazily went under a screen and gave Gibson an uncontested jumper at the foul line to drop the lead to 14. He spotted up behind the three point line, got the pass with 4 on the clock and passed up the uncontested shot to dribble into the defender and force a 20 footer that got blocked and turned into Lebron's three point play on the other end. He threw a bad pass to Duncan that was almost stolen, he almost lost his dribble at the top of the key and then he got away with a travel on that huge layup off the glass. That said, Parker should have probably had three extra assists for those shots that rimmed out on Duncan.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

And as for Manu, the dude had 25 points, plus that huge 4 point play...so one turnover is nothing compared to that.

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Duncan and Parker had plenty of things they did right, and what they did wrong almost cost them the game. There's not much solace to be taken in playing well and losing.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

Just want to know what "rotten plays and ill advised shots" did Manu and Tony pull?

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Manu tried a quick three at the beginning of the run, committed the turnover right before Lebron's missed layup and shot a contested fadeaway from 20 feet before Lebron's big turnover. He then hit the three and got fouled. Just because the Cavs weren't able to capitalize off the mistakes doesn't make them excusable.

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Originally Posted by florige

Whats your game 3 take?

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There is no adjustment for the Cavs to make. If they play their best game, hit ridiculous shots and the Spurs can't hit the broad side of a barn, the Spurs still have a chance to win. I predict Pop shortens the rotation like he did against Utah and, barring injury or failure to show up, the Spurs roll again. Nobody gets any rest in the 4th quarter unless they are up by 40 and he's worried about someone getting mugged.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Agreed, and those were horrible. The whole point of having him on the team is for his basketball IQ. If he doesn't have that, Beno might as well be out there increasing his trade value.


He probably was, but that ain't saying much. He lazily went under a screen and gave Gibson an uncontested jumper at the foul line to drop the lead to 14. He spotted up behind the three point line, got the pass with 4 on the clock and passed up the uncontested shot to dribble into the defender and force a 20 footer that got blocked and turned into Lebron's three point play on the other end. He threw a bad pass to Duncan that was almost stolen, he almost lost his dribble at the top of the key and then he got away with a travel on that huge layup off the glass. That said, Parker should have probably had three extra assists for those shots that rimmed out on Duncan.

Duncan and Parker had plenty of things they did right, and what they did wrong almost cost them the game. There's not much solace to be taken in playing well and losing.


Manu tried a quick three at the beginning of the run, committed the turnover right before Lebron's missed layup and shot a contested fadeaway from 20 feet before Lebron's big turnover. He then hit the three and got fouled. Just because the Cavs weren't able to capitalize off the mistakes doesn't make them excusable.

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Yeah, I also do not understand how Spurs KEEP loosing those big leads in every series they have played in thus far!

However, I think there were a few of coaching errors by Pop in the fourth quarter. He EVEN admitted that he had some poor substitutions and some bad defensive tactics there...So I'd say that I don't think he'd let Brent play that many minutes in the next game. Also, during the run, Bruce was on the bench, so Lebron went a bit wild there.

Obviously, there were mistakes from everyone. But as for Manu, it seemed like there weren't any plays for him in that fourth quarter. He didn't even have the ball in his hands at that time, all I saw was Brent shooting and shooting. Brent didn't even take his TIME to make the shot. And in a situation such as a big lead, you've gotta waste the time on the clock, the full 24 seconds...not shooting within 5 seconds in a hurry.

Yeah, I also saw Tim miss a few shots at the end, too. And I'm not saying Tony and Manu and Tim were perfect. They obviously had some errors. But their mistakes just did not seem to be that HUGE, you know...Plus they fixed their issues at the end, there.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

Yeah, I also do not understand how Spurs KEEP loosing those big leads in every series they have played in thus far!

However, I think there were a few of coaching errors by Pop in the fourth quarter. He EVEN admitted that he had some poor substitutions and some bad defensive tactics there...So I'd say that I don't think he'd let Brent play that many minutes in the next game. Also, during the run, Bruce was on the bench, so Lebron went a bit wild there.

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The Spurs played bad defense through the entire second half. The Cavs only scored one more point in the fourth than they did in the third. Their problem in the fourth was that they stopped playing on offense, too. My guess is that Pop was admitting that he should have had Elson escorted from the building after the first time out in the fourth quarter.

Bowen came out for a rest when the lead was at ten. He was there the entire run.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

Obviously, there were mistakes from everyone. But as for Manu, it seemed like there weren't any plays for him in that fourth quarter. He didn't even have the ball in his hands at that time, all I saw was Brent shooting and shooting. Brent didn't even take his TIME to make the shot. And in a situation such as a big lead, you've gotta waste the time on the clock, the full 24 seconds...not shooting within 5 seconds in a hurry.

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Manu was initiating the offense when he was in the game, as he typically does in the fourth quarter. The ball WAS in his hands, and he wasn't doing anything with it. He's as much to blame for not getting good shots as anyone. At least he burned more clock than Barry did and played some defense. The Spurs won that game with their rebounding during that run.

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Originally Posted by greenleo

Yeah, I also saw Tim miss a few shots at the end, too. And I'm not saying Tony and Manu and Tim were perfect. They obviously had some errors. But their mistakes just did not seem to be that HUGE, you know...Plus they fixed their issues at the end, there.

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Glad they did it, but that's their job. They did just enough to win. If they do that in Cleveland they lose the game. Hopefully they learned their lesson.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The Spurs played bad defense through the entire second half. The Cavs only scored one more point in the fourth than they did in the third. Their problem in the fourth was that they stopped playing on offense, too. My guess is that Pop was admitting that he should have had Elson escorted from the building after the first time out in the fourth quarter...

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I read that "Pop just said he made bad decisions in the 4th quarter".
Put Elson in=bad decisions in this 4th quarter.

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Originally Posted by thousandth

I read that "Pop just said he made bad decisions in the 4th quarter".
Put Elson in=bad decisions in this 4th quarter.

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Elson has played well at times in these playoffs, especially after he lost his starting job; his energy level went way up. Game 2 was not one of those times. Putting him in is forgivable, leaving him in is not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The Spurs played bad defense through the entire second half. The Cavs only scored one more point in the fourth than they did in the third. Their problem in the fourth was that they stopped playing on offense, too. My guess is that Pop was admitting that he should have had Elson escorted from the building after the first time out in the fourth quarter.

Bowen came out for a rest when the lead was at ten. He was there the entire run.


Manu was initiating the offense when he was in the game, as he typically does in the fourth quarter. The ball WAS in his hands, and he wasn't doing anything with it. He's as much to blame for not getting good shots as anyone. At least he burned more clock than Barry did and played some defense. The Spurs won that game with their rebounding during that run.


Glad they did it, but that's their job. They did just enough to win. If they do that in Cleveland they lose the game. Hopefully they learned their lesson.

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I would HOPE that they learned something...but the problem is that they constantly loose their big leads, no matter who they're playing against. Before it was Jazz, and now Cleveland. And the interesting thing is that they all know what their problem is, they talk about it in the postgame interviews. Yet, it still happens. It's like they know the issue, yet they just do not seem to fix it.

And that surprises me because Pop is the coach, and I'm sure he keeps reminding them NOT to loose the big lead...

Cuz even now as I had watched the big lead in the first half in Game 2, I just KNEW they'd loose the lead in the fourth quarter somehow.

I think the ONLY time they had kept the lead was in Game 5 against Jazz. But that time, it seemed the Jazz players had completely given up.