I don't want to hear about TP being the MVP anymore

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

I never said it gives you a player ranking. I find PER more useful for that. But +/- punishes bench players rather than helps them. The less minutes you play, the less time you have to accumulate a high + total.

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I agree with you on that. I didn't see it before posting the answer above (except it helps when your team has a losing record).

There are different ways of evaluating players. You can measure them individually, you can measure how they fit in a team concept, how they play offense, defense, in the clutch, per 48 minutes, etc... No one way to look at a player will ever tell you the whole story because every stat has its flaws.

The only reason I brought up the +/- thing today is it bothers me like crazy when Spurs fans use points as the sole measure of whether a guy played well or poorly. They don't look at any other facet of the game and it's like such a dinosaur way of looking at the game it drives me nuts.

You're right, Bruce was probably our best player today, and he scored 13 points, a great number for him, but not an overwhelming amount. Horry was probably our best player in Game 2, and he only had 5 points. For some reason casual fans can accept that a role player can contribute without setting the world on fire, but for our big three, the rules don't work that way. I will never understand this. If Horry or Barry or Bruce can "have a good game" without scoring a lot, than why can't Tim or Manu or Tony? It makes no sense to me.

Personally, I thought the most dominant half Tony had the whole year was the 1st half he played against the Clippers in some game this year. He only took one shot, but he had 12 assists and our team had 63 points in the half. He was the best player on the floor and had the Clips at his mercy.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

There are different ways of evaluating players. You can measure them individually, you can measure how they fit in a team concept, how they play offense, defense, in the clutch, per 48 minutes, etc... No one way to look at a player will ever tell you the whole story because every stat has its flaws.

The only reason I brought up the +/- thing today is it bothers me like crazy when Spurs fans use points as the sole measure of whether a guy played well or poorly. They don't look at any other facet of the game and it's like such a dinosaur way of looking at the game it drives me nuts.

You're right, Bruce was probably our best player today, and he scored 13 points, a great number for him, but not an overwhelming amount. Horry was probably our best player in Game 2, and he only had 5 points. For some reason casual fans can accept that a role player can contribute without setting the world on fire, but for our big three, the rules don't work that way. I will never understand this. If Horry or Barry or Bruce can "have a good game" without scoring a lot, than why can't Tim or Manu or Tony? It makes no sense to me.

Personally, I thought the most dominant half Tony had the whole year was the 1st half he played against the Clippers in some game this year. He only took one shot, but he had 12 assists and our team had 63 points in the half. He was the best player on the floor and had the Clips at his mercy.

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:clap
100% agree

And because this thread is about Tony. I believe he is valuable on this serie not because he is our leading scorer but because the cavs don't have any answer to him. If they want to stop him they need to let space to our other players. This is the type of impact Tim has in the paint.

I stop here because I really don't mind who will be our MVP.

In ten years when we will talk about this team all we will remember is:
This was our 4th title (hopefuly) in Tim Duncan era.

On the other hand, it seems like some hoopheads are undervaluing points, as if scoring points is the easiest thing to do during a game. Points were goddamn hard to come by tonight, and if Cleveland possessed more scoring threats, they would have made hay during the Spurs' long scoreless drought.

The 2007 Cavaliers remind me of the 2002 Spurs in that their team MVP has very little scoring help beside him. The 2002 Spurs lost in five games to the champions.

Unless TD has another monster close out game (which is probable), Tony should get co MVP with Tim. Spurs 2007 (TEAM is EVERYTHING!)

They used to not automatically give the Finals MVP to the team's best player (remember Worthy winning one for the Lakers and Dumars getting one for the Pistons?) but they stopped that practice about fifteen years ago.

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about Finals MVPs, I was naive enough to think Rodman had a shot of winning it for the Bulls in 96. To this day I think he was their best player in Games 2 and 6.

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Originally Posted by black/silver rook

Unless TD has another monster close out game (which is probable), Tony should get co MVP with Tim. Spurs 2007 (TEAM is EVERYTHING!)

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Co-MVP is difficult to pull off without a conspiracy. There are 14 votes, I believe, so getting it exactly 7-7 is tricky.

tony is the MVP that's all

sorry for tp's haters :clap

1 match and tony will be :fro

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Re: I don't want to hear about TP being the MVP anymore

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If I live in the U.S. and I have someone else besides Tony to win MVP I'd vote here:
http://www.nba.com/finals2007/news/mvp.html


So they can hear me. :wakeup

GO! GO! DUNCAN! :oops

This might be the dumbest thread in SpursTalk history. I don't think Parker should be MVP but this game didn't hurt him.

The thing I hate most about Manu apologists is that they can't even be happy with a Spurs win unless Manu does well. And if the Spurs by chance win when he has an off game, we get flooded with the type of lame ass posts that reside in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Borosai

Parker has been amazing. Basically, he's becoming unstoppable, even when teams are focusing on him. Duncan is always the best player on the Spurs, and the reason why they win. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's always the best player in every series. If Parker has a huge game 4, and the Spurs win, I don't see why he wouldn't get it unless people feel an obligation to give it to Duncan.

Duncan is ALL-TIME GREATNESS, but it doesn't mean he has to be the MVP every time.

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well said :clap

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Originally Posted by timvp

This might be the dumbest thread in SpursTalk history. I don't think Parker should be MVP but this game didn't hurt him.

The thing I hate most about Manu apologists is that they can't even be happy with a Spurs win unless Manu does well. And if the Spurs by chance win when he has an off game, we get flooded with the type of lame ass posts that reside in this thread.

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:clap :clap :clap

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Originally Posted by timvp

This might be the dumbest thread in SpursTalk history. I don't think Parker should be MVP but this game didn't hurt him.

The thing I hate most about Manu apologists is that they can't even be happy with a Spurs win unless Manu does well. And if the Spurs by chance win when he has an off game, we get flooded with the type of lame ass posts that reside in this thread.

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that one is for you aaron...

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Originally Posted by romain.star

that one is for you aaron...

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:lol

Naw it wasn't not directed at any one person. I didn't even really look at who posted what. The only thing dumber than this thread would be intently reading this thread.

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This might be the dumbest thread in SpursTalk history.

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Agreed.

All that matters is the big trophy.

got to go with Duncan, he makes things happen, even though he inexplicably misses a lot of shots he usually makes automatically.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

This will get me in trouble here, but what the hell...

If you want to get into who's been the best player, that's one thing, but don't bring who's in and who's out and the runs or whatever into arguments, because it's a losing argument.

Tony has the worst +/- of the big three in this series.

Once again, I'm not saying he's played the worst. I'm just saying if you want to make Tony's case for MVP, don't do it that way.

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It has nothing to do with plus minus through the series, it has to do with what that 10-0 run at the end of the half meant to the game. It completely destroyed the momentun of the crowd, and rather than being able to celebrate through halftime they had to sit there and process that their team played well and was still down. That's due to Tony Parker. Doesn't mean Timmy isn't great. It just means Tony did it with Timmy on the bench. That has to count for something. Everyone points to Tony's stats as a reason that he sucks or that he doesn't deserve the MVP. It's funny that the Spurs seem to struggle in the playoffs when Parker does.

I didn't read this thread but I'm getting really fucking sick of the Manu fans that spew constant hatred for all things Tony.

Get over yourselves and realize this isn't Tony vs. Manu.

It's really pathetic.

I'm annoyed how any discussion of why one player should be the player of the game results in people tearing down the performances of that guy's teammates. After a win.

Can you imagine the threads if we had lost? :wtf

Everyone subjected to that game lost...

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Originally Posted by pppp

I learnt to deal with the fact that the TP haterz will never acknowledge the guy and all but damn...this has to be a new record :

- up 3-0 in teh Finals
- 3 good games from Tp (2 great ones)
- big shots LATE in the clutch
- etc...

and the first thing that comes to your mind is to create threads like this ???? WTF????

I don't even give a shit about finals mvp ! what matters is winning the title !

Can't you people just enjoy the win and the position we're in ???

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+1 :clap

Anyway Spurs fans have to admit that they are spoiled as hell.
Just crazy...their team is gonna win a 4th title and all they can say is that TP doesn't deserve blablabla....And people don't realize that it's hard and good to have 3 almost superstars in one team and who aren't selfish like bryant,...
Enjoy the few years left to this dynasty...

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

Co-MVP is difficult to pull off without a conspiracy. There are 14 votes, I believe, so getting it exactly 7-7 is tricky.

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Actually there's 10 votes. In 2005, the vote was 6-4 in favor of Timmy over Manu.

give the mvp to the little french ... i'd love mvp to him ... I think TD has 3 ... what is enough

If I had to vote ... I'll go with TP ... later Bruce Bowen (without him we never could stoped LBJ).

TD is always the most deserved ...