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Glad to see most of yall are warming up to the guy..... There were alot of harsh words last night... lol
People blowin his character issue out of control may prove to be a blessing in disguise for the Spurs (CIA Olsen???).... This guy really should have never ended up on our team, it just worked out perfect that he decided to declare this year when his stock was at it's all-time low point
This may have played a part, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
In the teams non-conference schedule, when they won the majority of their games...
Marcus averaged 15 ppg on 13 FG attempts per game and 45% from the field.
Chase averaged 16.7 ppg on 12 FG attepts per game and 55% from the field.
In the teams conference schedule, when everything went to hell, largely because of injury (McClellan) and PG play (Shakur)...
Marcus averaged 16.8 ppg on 14 FG attempts per game and 52% from the field.
Chase averaged 14.8 ppg on 12 FG attempts per game and 45% from the field.
So on basically the same amount of shots, give or take percentage points, Chase's PPG and FG% dropped, while Marcus, on roughly the same attempts per, scored a little better but that can be better explained by shooting better from the field.
I'm telling you, the #1 issue with Arizona was the failings of Shakur. When he ran the show effectively, the team scored in bunches with everyone getting theirs with no issue. When his game went in the crapper, Marcus took it upon himself to become the leader and creator of the offense, upping his as a leader should, but with Budinger mired in a slump of inconsistancy, Shakur playing like a freshman, McClellan injured and with Ivan's limitations, there was only so much Marcus could do.
Fact is, Arizona was 9-2 when Marcus was the offensive leader and scoring 20 or more points. NINE & TWO!
I watched every game, and let me tell you, it was mighty hard at times, and I can tell you that Budinger hit a wall during conference play that had little to do with Marcus. For about a 10-game stretch, Budinger relied heavily on his jumper/3-point shot, which abandoned him, as he shot roughly 40% from the field and 30% from range. Compare to roughly 55% from the field and 40% from range in every other game.
Sorry for the book, and I'm sure there were feelings of hostility between Marcus and the others, but it was largely because Marcus had stepped up his game when things went south and every other player would rathe go down with the ship than fight to save it.
I think the bad attitude rap because of his difficulties with his coach probably hurt his placement in the draft.
Those difficulties were certainly the reason why he opted out early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Mago
Arizona played zone last season with the exception of about 3 or 4 games. He always defended the left baseline.
He never complained about it and relished it. That baseline didn't go anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMarkJohns
You fail to mention his turnover numbers for that stretch of games. It WAS miserable to watch because we had an offense and when the ball got in Marcus' hands the offense stopped. Some might call that being a leader but I call it selfishness and blatantly disregarding a gameplan.
A former Spur now enters the picture: Antonio Daniels. He has matured. Is a heads up, committed, team player. I believe Pop still likes his game and he has improved it to the point he could be effective coming off the bench.
The Wizards selected Young from USC, a # 2 player who plays no defense but can score (result: another early exit for the Wizards) and also making Daniels very expendable.
His TO numbers were basically identical...Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaveah
2.6 turnovers per game during their 13-1 start...
2.8 turnovers per game in every game thereafter...
So, obviously, that was not the issue.
True, he had a few terrible games. But when your team is getting blown out and you have to press the issue in attempts to make something happen, sometimes turnovers happen.
Manu has his share of 3/4 turnover games. No reason to throw him out because of it.
Fact is, the Shakur averaged 8 apg to just 3.2 TO during their 13-1 stretch and just 6 apg to 4 TO during their 8-10 finish.
Shakur also shot 48.5% to start during the 13-1 stretch, then just 38% the rest of the way.
You can lay all the blame on the player trying to do something about it. And sure, I'll give you that he did his own thing on occasion, but his own thing won them games. Note the 9-2 when he scored 20 or more points...
He wasn't selfish. He just forced the issue. Whether some shots, which weren't that many if you look at the stats and percentages, and some passes. Yes, he broke plays, but said plays weren't working with Shakur playing like crap.
Someone had to attempt to save the season. Marcus stood up and took it upon himself.
I've never seen so much made over a player trying to do right by his team.
Oh wait, yes I have...
enter Kobe...
Not comparing the player, merely situation.
Again, statistically there's little difference between Marcus when Arizona was winning and Marcus when Arizona was losing. Everyone else, big falls.
Yeah, he took over a bit too much. Get him some teammates who can make an open shot, or make a post entry pass and you don't see that Marcus. You'll see the content and happy Marcus who was a leader for the 13-1 streak to start the season.
I'm not saying Marcus is innocent. I'm saying some things are way overblown, and that Marcus is not the only problem. Probably just the most outspoken of them.
Wow. Great insight. THANKS!
Spurs draft Roosevelt-grad Marcus Williams
Seattle Times staff
Former Roosevelt High School star Marcus Williams was drafted by San Antonio in the second round of the NBA Draft today, the 33rd player selected. Williams, a 6-foot-7 forward, played two years at Arizona before declaring for the draft.
Williams averaged 16.6 points and 6.7 rebounds last season for the Wildcats, but it was a disappointing season for both Williams and the team. The talented Wildcats had another confounding season, with Williams as the poster child.
Arizona never contended for the Pac-10 title, looked disinterested in a blowout loss to Oregon in the opening round of the conference tournament, then was beaten by Purdue in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Williams scored a combined 24 points in the final two games.
Coupled with a one-game suspension a few weeks earlier for a curfew violation, it all added up to question marks about Williams’ game.
Arizona assistant coach Josh Pastner, however, last week launched into a vigorous defense of his former player, saying Williams wasn’t to blame for the Wildcats’ struggles.
"I don’t believe he got enough respect nationally because we didn’t meet the expectations that we needed to meet,” Pastner said. “I don’t think he was appreciated nationally for the type of year he had.”
But some in Tucson felt Williams played the season as if he had a foot out the door to the NBA. Wildcats coach Lute Olson even appeared to be opening it for him at one point, telling the media in February that Williams was declaring for the draft before Williams had announced it himself.
But Pastner said any thought Williams wasn’t a team guy or that the NBA should be worried about his character is off track.
"Anytime anyone asks, we put that to rest quickly, because he’s a very, very good kid,” Pastner said.
And there’s much to like about Williams. Long arms that allow him to play much bigger than his 6-7 frame would indicate; enough defensive skill that Arizona put him on the other team’s best perimeter player; and good ballhandling ability that allows him to play a number of positions.
The biggest knock on his game is perimeter shooting. He shot 28.8 percent from the three-point line last season, and 69.5 percent from the free-throw line.
"He’s skilled, he can handle the ball, he’s got good size and very long arms, so he’s got the potential to play bigger than he is,” Steve Kerr, Phoenix general manager and president, said after Williams’ pre-draft workout with the Suns. “I told him after the workout, the big thing for him is his jump shot, and he knows that. He has to continue to work on his jumper.”
Pastner is convinced Williams will be fine.
"There’s no question in my mind he will have a long NBA career,” Pastner said.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss
The ace up our sleeve is really just the chip we bring to the table:Quote:
"He’s skilled, he can handle the ball, he’s got good size and very long arms, so he’s got the potential to play bigger than he is,” Steve Kerr, Phoenix general manager and president, said after Williams’ pre-draft workout with the Suns. “I told him after the workout, the big thing for him is his jump shot, and he knows that. He has to continue to work on his jumper.”
CHIP ENGELLAND :ace
6'4", 175 lbs.
Former Guard
Number: 14
Hometown: Pacific Palisades, CA
Birth Date: May 9, 1961
Major: History
You, sir, stand on the brink of legendary status in Spurs' folklore.
:danceclub I'll dance to that music!Quote:
Originally Posted by JMarkJohns
Lute Olsens comments the day of the draft....."I told his agent that if he (the person Williams is getting advice from) hasn't cashed the check, I'd stop payment on it," he said. "That's the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen that someone could work with him and get paid and see what he's doing."
Olson said he and other coaches helped change Williams' shooting motion his freshman season, but that Williams returned from Seattle with a different shot his sophomore season.
"I don't know who he worked with," Olson said, "but it was worse than what he came here."
- here's the link to Lute Olsens comments on draft day here
Are negative comments about your own player appropriate for draft day comments to the media??
Thanks for the great info, JMJ.
And anybody who went to Roosevelt High School can't be all bad. :smokin
Good find. Williams' motion is definitely funky. If he was tinkering with it before his workouts, I'm guessing he missed a lot of shots and that led to him dropping in the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by manustarting2gd
Williams was actually a good three-point shooter his freshman season. Hopefully Engelland can help take the hitch out of his shot.
a sean elliot quaility player is just what the spurs are missing.. if we got it in draft insted of FA i am all for it
The main reason I didn't like the pick was because he's a 6'6" to 6'7" SF without 3pt shooting range and questionable rebounding skills. I thought the Spurs could have used the pick on a PG to challenge for the backup position, but instead they used it on what they thought was the best talent available at the spot. I don't have a problem with that, but I just didn't really see where he would fit the Spurs' needs at SF. His length and athleticism may prove to be helpful, but I figured the Spurs would need a SF that is a couple of inches taller to aid in versitility when playing small ball. If they could locate a decent 6'9" SF with rebounding skills that player fill the role similar to a utility fielder in baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
To be far to Williams, he shot 43.5% on threes his freshman season and last year averaged 6.7 rebounds per game. That 6.7 number is pretty impressive for a player of his size.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerIsGood!
But yeah, this teams a big small forward and point guard to compete with Vaughn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
This is the problem though. You're absolutely right that his shot wasn't bad his freshman year. The question that everyone in Tucson had was why leave Tucson in the summer while every player stays to work on their game and have someone who is not your hall of fame coach completely change your shot. Everyone said that was dumb and it's clear everyone was right when you look at his shooting numbers in his second year.
It's not so much fixing the mechanics that bothers me because if he decides to work Chip can help with that. The idea that some random coach in Seattle is trusted to change the shooting motion your hall of fame coach helped construct screams of a person with poor judgement and a lack of respect for the man in charge.
Finally, just because he played point for 3 games while Arizona's backup was hurt does not mean he is capable of challenging Jacque for anything. He was a PASSABLE backup point guard for a mediocre college team. This does not qualify him to play point guard for any NBA team, much less the champs.
Yeah, it sounded like an immature and dumb thing for Williams to do. I've read how Olson has called out the supposed shooting coach for destroying his shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaveah
Hopefully Williams will work with Chip and get back to at least being a decent three-point shooter.
I wasn't talking about Williams. I was talking about other needs the Spurs have that they could have addressed in the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaveah
No buyout? Hell, great pick.