Or is this even possible?
Are they even for sale?
Wouldn't this resolve a lot a problems?
A European farm system with less restrictions than the NBDL Austin team seems like a good idea to me.
What think you all?
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Or is this even possible?
Are they even for sale?
Wouldn't this resolve a lot a problems?
A European farm system with less restrictions than the NBDL Austin team seems like a good idea to me.
What think you all?
I think we'd buy Pau Orthez before Tau Ceramica.
we'd be better off buying tau though
This is interesting.
Could the Spurs evetuanlly have two farm systems?
A domestic (already have one) and foreign farm system?
The Spurs are truly separating themselves from the league as a whole.
Right now, the Lakers are the only other team that owns a NBDL league.
However, the Lakers are probably too busy trying to rebuild their NBA Roster and Franchise to even worry about their NBDL team.
The Spurs did this at the right time.
They just bought the Toros, I think that's enough for now.
Pau orthez has nothing to do with Spurs now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwaters
All Spurs related players are gone.
The coach who has worked with Spurs during summer leagues has been fired.
i like the idea of having a euroleague team though, to send all of our players that we draft and stash....that would be money
I'd be great, but they're a top team in the euroleague. I dont think Holt has that kind of money.
It's not too practical to compare the Toros to Tau.
There is no way the Spurs would own their own european team just to have a place to stash a player or two every year...they operate much differently and there are way too many conflicts. NBA drafts 19+ and the euro leagues scout and scoop world talent at almost pre-teen levels to groom them...that why teams like Tau lock these kids into such long contracts with big buyouts...they want a return on their investment of time and resourses with these very young kids.
A listing of the net worth of the NBA's owners 2005-2006.
Owner Team Net worth
Paul Allen Portland $20 billion
Micky Arison Miami $5.3 billion
Rich DeVos Orlando $3 billion
William Davidson Detroit $2.8 billion
Glen Taylor Minnesota $1.8 billion
Melvin Simon Indiana $1.6 billion
E. Stanley Kroenke Denver $1.4 billion
Mark Cuban Dallas $1.3 billion
Herb Simon Indiana $1.2 billion
Michael E. Heisley Memphis $850 million
Robert Johnson Charlotte $750 million
Howard Schultz Seattle $700 million
Donald Sterling L.A. Clippers $500 million
Cablevision New York $494 million
Larry Miller Utah $480 million
Dan Gilbert Cleveland $478 million
Bruce Ratner New Jersey $400 million
Robert Sarver Phoenix $400 million
Jerry Buss L.A. Lakers $380 million
Wyc Grousbeck Boston $360 million
Chris Cohan Golden State $325 million
Ed Snider Philadelphia $310 million
Steve Belkin Atlanta $300 million
Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment Toronto $297 million
Jerry Reinsdorf Chicago $280 million
Herb Kohl Milwaukee $279 million
Abe Pollin Washington $180 million
George Shinn New Orleans $100 million
Joe Maloof Sacramento $100 million
Gavin Maloof Sacramento $100 million
Leslie Alexander Houston $80 million
Peter Holt San Antonio $80 million
But if the Spurs did in fact do this it would create excitement among players who dream on the NBA and the big bucks one day. They would want to play for Tau or whatever team that was bought. So at that preteen age they would be thinking of the Spurs of the NBA, that own our Euro team thus creating an advantage for us to pluck the best of the best in a far easier way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Second, if the Spurs did want to do this the present is best. Money from the title, makes everyone rich. Holt could invest in this and while the Spurs are on top with room to grow and money to use in making us better now is the time, because who knows what happens next season or if we even break 52 wins. There is no time like the present to me.
No way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAINTX
edit: just saw 05-06 up there, so nevermind. Lmao.
Not sure how accurate the net worths are. I googled "peter holt net worth" and that's what came up on a USA Today Pro basketball link. Also, Holt is the majority owner with (I think) 37%. So there is other money behind the Spurs. However, this chart may reveal 1 reason the Spurs are always very careful with finances.
True, Holt only owns a percentage of the Spurs (I think it's actually right around 32%), so his net worth doesn't reflect the ownership groups net worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAINTX
Anyway, is Tau for sale or something? Or why is this a discussion.
You aren't getting it. EuroSpurs would be a different organization than SASpurs. EuroSpurs players would not belong to SASpurs and would go through the draft just like they do now. The only POSSIBLE advantage they might be able to have would putting impossibly high buyouts on their Eurostar contracts to make them drop in the draft and then let SASpurs take them with late picks and then let Eurospurs waive the buyout, but EuroSpurs fans would hate them for doing it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalis
I was joking when I suggested it in a thread following the draft...if that makes a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
AT&T is another part owner of the Spurs...want to throw their net worth into the mix?...:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
And this conversation about Tau (or buying any other euro team) is ridiculous...ain't gonna happen.
An NBA team owning a European team would pose an interesting problem. Not falling under NBA rules the Euro team could sign underage players like say Scola or Ricky Rubio to long term contracts then hold their rights and not release them at draft age unles they were drafted by the owner NBA team, thereby giving them a big leg up on drafting a player. I could see a predatory owner like Allen or Dolan doing something like that if not addressed by the NBA.
Yes, let's add up the net worth of these ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
ARAMARK RBI, Inc., Raymond Joseph Barshick, Raul S. Cantu Trust, Richard Cantu Trust, Clear ChannelCommunications Inc., George C. Hixon, H.H. Sports, Ltd., IBC Capital Corporation, Sylvan Stephen Lang,James R. Leininger, Paul R. Markey, Jeanne Lang Mathews, R&B Partnership (Russell and Bruce Hill),David M. Robinson, Southwest Business Corporation, AT&T SBC Communications Inc., Felix L. Stehling, Valero Energy Corporation, Zachry Hospitality Corporation.
:lol
:readingQuote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Got it.
Yeah but we'd still but in the middle of the NBA if you went through other teams wouldn't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Why is this a discussion is something I could say for about half the topics of Spurstalk in the last couple months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
:donkey
True. I thought just thought maybe the owners of Tau were looking to sell and I missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalis
I'm sure the NBA would address it and would administer draconian Joe Smith type penalties if a team tried to circumvent them.
Damn...you beat me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
AT&T, Clear Channel, Valero, among others....pretty solid ownership financial-wise.
The point is that it doesn't have to be Tau. It could be any decent Euroleague team. Tau would likely cost a fair amount judging by their success, but a less successful team could likely be had for less money.
I really like this idea though. The EuroSpurs team would operate like any other Euroleague team but simply have a strong affiliation with the Spurs. If the Spurs drafted a Euro player (the Sanikidze and Karalov types) they would have them sign a contract with the EuroSpurs to develop overseas. Heck, even an NCAA standout that wasn't quite ready for the NBA could be drafted and stashed over there while he continued to grow. It would be a reciprocal relationship though. While EuroSpurs would send away their more developed prospects to the Spurs they would also receive new potential-laden players every year from the Spurs' draft. The EuroSpurs would not have to sacrifice their winning mentality, they would simply operate as more of a NBA prep team for the select players that they were sent. They could still pursue valuable free agents whose rights the Spurs did not own and develop them for the sake of EuroSpurs' future.
It'd be a great idea. I just wonder how the NBA would treat it.
Yeah overall it seems like a great idea. If it would profit us a solid player every 5 years why not? Imagine getting a Manu or Parker out of it.
Well,right now they could stash 3 Euros at least,but they can make a kind of Eurpean scouting base in Tau,or whatever team they buy,in order to develope them better,with a coach like Pop,so they can get use to the system while they wait overthere.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
I think people are underestimating the actual value of a team like Tau. I don't think the Spurs can afford anywhere near what it would take to buy a top euro team.
Ok, so maybe they can't afford to buy a team like Tau,
but couldn't they buy INTO the team, becoming a major investor???????????
Logic just doesn't seem to work in here. There are NO tactical advantages for the Spurs to buy a euroleague team.
I think there would be advantages, but i dont think it's financially possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Oh, it's financially possible, just not financially smart. They are much better off leveraging their one sided deal on the ATT Center and their two fisted nut hold on the City/County into other sports/entertainment investment opportunities at home. Too many conflict of interest issues in trying to own a Euro basketball team.Quote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
Just for the hell of it, what have been the last sale prices for Euroleague teams?
If you can pull up some numbers for me i'll concede. But i think Euroleague teams cost a little more than you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
Do your own homework :lol
Spurs have the lock on large venue sports and entertainment in South Texas. This is one of the fastest growing areas in the US. Spurs ownership group are a "who's who" of economic and political power in the city/county.
San Antonio is still a one sport town but looking out 20 years that can and will change. Every year the Alamodone fiasco sinks further into the past. When baseball or football comes to South Texas you can count on the Spurs ownership group being right in the middle of the mix. Thats their strength and their focus and thats where their long term investment plans are.
doesn't parker own a euro league team? If we have players that can own a euro league team then why not Peter Holt? BTW is Duncan richer than Holt? I'm pretty sure Shaq Garnett and Jordan are.
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
You forgot Kobe...he owns a euroleague team too.
WHY would the Spurs want one, though? It makes absolutely no sense.
Stern would shut it down in a heartbeat.
And personally I think Holts massively underrepresented in that list. 80 million doesn't cover his ownership interest in the Spurs, much less Caterpillar.
what teams? names please! Parker owns a Euro league team?? since when?
fuck, google it yourself. Parkers is in France, Kobe's is in Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
The team that Parker owns is like a minor league euroleague team...it's not a top level team in Europe.
There are probably some 2nd tier Euroleague teams the Spurs could afford, but I don't think they could afford Tau. It might be an interesting idea for them to buy a team that has yet to move up to first tier status and then manage it into becoming a top level team in Europe.
But due to the different rules about signing players...the league would snuff this idea instantly...Stern hell..it'd be the other owners that went crazy over this idea. Some of them can't even manage the one basketball team they own. And the biggest opponent would be the Euroleague instelf...I don't think they want to sell themselves to the NBA. Stern might actually be in favor of the idea if left to his own devices...NBA owners buying Euroleague teams would increase the NBA's ability to influence the growth of Euroleague basketball and keep it from catching the NBA....it'd be a way to ensure that the Euroleagues stay a minor league in relation to the NBA.
you're the one claiming they own teams. I've googled it already, found nothing. Anyone find any info on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Thought soQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Parker owns Paris Basket Racing....the team he was playing for when he was drafted by the Spurs. I think that's the name. I don't know what team Kobe owns...but he does own a team in Italy. It might be the team D'antoni played for...I'm not sure.
Current basketball players, maybe/maybe not, but since you brought up Jordan... take these articles for what their worth, but...
Magic Johnson's net worth is nearly $900M.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005059/bio
Michael Jordan's estimated net worth in 2001 was $398M.
http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0923/1254601.html
LeBron James' estimated net worth is nearly $300M.
http://www.hbcunetwork.com/modules/N...erceptions.cfm
And for everybody saying the Spurs couldn't afford it (again, you're probably right and it'd never happen)...
What have been the sale prices for Euroleague teams recently?
Found the name of the team the Kobe owns, its called Olimpia Milano. Its the team his father played for
Kobe's team is a higher tiered team than Parker's I think...he bought it a while back, before 2002...and I think both the Euroleague and the Euro have made huge gains against the NBA and Dollar since then. So it's probably been a good investment....and it might actually be a top tier Euro team.
I think Sabonis and Divac both own teams in Europe as well...
You know...the team Javtokas played for won it's way to the Euroleague...I think the Spurs could have afforded that one easily a few years ago. It just depends on the team really...but Tau is one of the best teams with the richest histories...it wouldn't surprise me if it has a dollar value close to some American Sports Franchises.
Parker's lower-tier team was purchased for roughly $250K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47
I don't know...but I know the Euro has been kicking the shit out of the dollar for a few years now...so they are going to have a higher dollar per value cost than buying an NBDL team.
Parker doesn't own Paris Basket Racing. It was a bad investment and he got out of it a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
I think the team Parker bought was about to fold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I didn't know he sold it...
Paris Basket Racing sold for $60,000 and the assumption of 2.3 mil in debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47
well considering that teams like Tau pay million dollar contracts to their top players, I'd say the price for Tau might be a bit higher :lol Still, I admit, I don't know exactly how muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Paris Basket Racing isn't a Euroleague team. It's a French league team.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
damn... you beat me to thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
JB47 keeps asking about the prices of Euroleague teams. None of these teams mentioned - Kobe's, PBR - are Euroleague teams. Euroleague teams are extremely expensive.
Are we talking Yankees/Redskins (nearly $1B)?
Liverpool F.C. (Hicks and Co. purchased it for ~$500M)?
No, I know...it's helpful, though, because I'm trying to get a mindset of team ownership for the purposes of this discussion and future team investments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I'm trying to find the price of the NBDL franchises, too.
It would be interesting to find out how much a team like Barcelona or Manchester United would cost. When was Liverpool sold?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47
It's not unprecedent for someone to own part of a NBA franchise and a big portion of a Euroleague team.
Raanan Katz, who is one of the six or seven people who own the majority of the Heat, is co-owner of Maccabi.
The entire Real Madrid franchise group is apparently worth ~$400M.
Manumaniac is right....some of these teams actually have guys making a million a year or more I think. Once a team is paying that kind of money, they have to have a hefty price tag...it's not like buying a MLB minorleague franchise or NBDL. There are some guys who choose to stay in Europe because they are being paid extremely well.
If an NBDL team costs 10-20 million....some of these top Euroleague teams could be carrying a price of a 100 million or more. I mean you don't see the Euroleague MVP signing to play in the NBDL. I don't know the exact values, and it probably varies depending on the National League it is affiliated with and the economic conditions of the country where it is located....probably a greater variation than there is between high end and low end NBA teams...
In summary...financially speaking, the Spurs probably could buy a Euroleague or 2nd tier European team if they really wanted to do so ...but Tau probably wouldn't be the one.
February of this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
The worth of Manchester United is estimated at$ 1.5B.
I think Sabonis actually does own a Euroleague team...doesn't he?
He played his final seasons for the team he owns I thought...and I doubt he'd be playing in a scrub league.
He owns part of Zalgiris Kaunas - they are a Euroleague team.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
yeah, but I think Man U is the most expensive one, I know I read that somewhere. I'd say 500M would be a good estimate for most of the top football teams. In that case, I wouldn't put a Euroleague basketball team above 100M, but if there was, Tau would probably be around that price, I'd think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47
Alright, if I win Mega Millions, I'm buying a CBA franchise and my first move would be to hire LJ Ellis as GM.
I'd like to find the value of Lutvyos Rytos or wheverever Javtokas team was...it was ULEB Cup team that played it's way into the Euroleague...it is a financially strapped team and can never afford to keep it's players.
To me that would be the best way to do it...by a ULEB Cup team and stock it with top level draft picks and solid vets and play it into the top level of Euroleague.
IMO...if an NBA team was to do this...it would be very easy for them to create a Euroleague Dynasty that would DreamTeam it's opponents year in and year out.
According to Wiki, a newspaper owns BC Lietuvos Rytas.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Quantos DeNiro?
No say, gringo.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
I think a lot of these countries actually have citizenship restrictions on owning these teams BTW...Americans need to realize...it's unusual to have a Free Market as Free as the American Market is in most areas.
I think Sabonis is a citizen of the country of his team...Parker is a French Citizen and surprise, I believe Kobe has Italian Citizenships(not certain though). I don't know if they will just sell these teams to the highest bidder.
does he have Italian parents or grandparents? 'cause thats the only way to get Italian citizenship.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
EDIT: Actually, I'm pretty sure he doesn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
LMAO...I don't think he does have Italian Grandparents. I am not certain he has Italian Citizenship...I just know he spent part of his chilhood there and his dad played basketball there...and he speaks Italian.
Are you certain that was the rule when he was born? Italy's government and politics are kinda all over the map...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
Yoiu gotta admit...it's kinda unusual they have such a high standard for citizenship, yet not for purchansing one of their national league teams.
Uh...i didnt know it was that funny, but i guess it is..?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
And i did a few searches and din't get shit. Your talkin a lot of shit, i'm not here for that, i was asking a simple question. Find me some numbers on how much it would cost to buy tau and there wont be an argument.
I dont need to hear about how you perceive South Texas' financial situation.
By the way, everyone thinks their damn city or county is the fastest growing area in the U.S.
sort of, yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
I googled...looks to me like Italy has a process for becoming a naturalized citizen and dual citizenship...are you sure Kobe's dad never did that? If Kobe's dad has Italian citizenship....
well the process is contingent on you having at least an Italian parent or grandparent, that's what I meant. You can become naturalized, but you need to have Italian blood in you. That being said, if his father's father or grandfather was Italian, he could have been naturalized, in which case I'm not quite sure if Kobe could get the citizenship. In any case, Italian blood needs to be thereQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
however, from what I gather, Kobe only has ties to Italy because his dad played there, not because of family. At least that's what I've been able to gather. I could be wrong though
kind of a drag to have to go investigating Kobe's family tree to find out though :lol
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
Was I talking shit? LOL
I have no desire to do your research for you to back up your ridiculous theory that Spurs should buy Tau...find your own numbers if you want them that bad...
As to my "perceptions" of the South Texas financial situation those are shared by Spurs Sports and Entertainment. Bookbinder has done a good job of protecting the Spurs interests and is a very smart and ruthless SOB.
Are you actually serious? Do you even read my posts or do you just respond to see what it'll look like?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
I think the spurs buying Tau is financially impractial, so in a way, i agree with you.
I dont think it's really even possible for the spurs to purchase them, i have no need to argue with you. You seem to have boundless knowledge on the topic so i asked you to provide sources and you threw a tit fit telling me i "should do my own research." I have no intention to argue with you, it's obviously pointless, your retorts consist of:
:lmao
:lmao
"Do your own research"
I simply asked if you could provide sources for some information and you acted like a bitch. My Apologies. You win buddy....