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Oden will be, at best nothing more than another Dikembe Mutombo. Which is a great career in its own right. But Durants ceiling is endless. There is no trying to compare Durant to somebody in the league right now. If pressed I'd say a T-Mac/Garnett hybrid. Durant will have the more successful, and storied career. Your thoughts?
They will have equal success.
T-Mac/Garnett have won two playoff series in their combined careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Factor
At least Dikembe has been to two Finals.
Either way, I'm sure that Oden and Durant aspire to much greater.
Durant will pick up stats, but Oden will be altering shots and making people think twice of getting into the paint. So I pick Oden.
Oden will have a far more diverse offensive game the Mutombo. I do however agree that stat wise Durant will be better. A lot of this will have to do with each players supporting cast.
i agree with the title of this thread.
I don't think there was ever a more menacing defensive college center than Patrick Ewing, and he ended up only being good, not great, on defense in the NBA (although much better on offense than expected). So I don't think Oden is a guaranteed 10-time All First-Defense winner yet, but we'll see.
THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody will know who is better until it is all said and done, but portland made the right pick because it is so hard to find a bigman with the skill set Oden has.
I would have taken Durant if I was any team in the draft, with the #1 pick. The kid has way more upside than Oden. I felt like with Oden, you already know what you're getting yourself into. Durant has the potential to be the next big star and game changer in the NBA. Keyword: potential
who knows the future of both of them, until they have a year or 2 under their belt. then i will tell you
i would take durant over oden. BUT.. with the roster the blazers had and young talent that they wanted to hold on to, oden was the only logical choice for them.
DURANT is and will continue to be BADASS.
It makes no sense to say that Durant has more upside than Oden.
1) Oden is bigger, faster, stronger, and quicker than Durant.
2) Oden is smarter than Durant.
3) Oden played his one season of college basketball with a broken wrist. We've yet to even see how good his offensive game can become, or how aggressive he can be on defense.
4) Bigger guys take longer to reach their full potential than wings, generally speaking.
Oden is only going to get better and better. Durant is a special player, but Oden has MORE upside and is more likely to lead a team to a championship. You think any of those teams looking to trade for the #1 pick were going to go after Durant? No way. Pop as much as ridiculed Kevin Pritchard for even considering going after Durant instead of Oden.
is he really faster and quicker than durant? Plus, Oden has too many health issues. he might get better and better, but he has to stay healthy at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Portland was in a tough situation with the 1st pick. You can't not pick the 7-footer. I consider Seattle to have had the lucky pick in this past draft.
It will be tough to make any sort of prediction until the end of their rookie year. As long as their ascent does not interfere with further Spurs championships, I wish them both the best of luck in their careers.
Two questions:
1. You would think that Spur fans, for all the preaching we do about how important it is to have big men who play defense, would appreciate more than anyone what Oden potentially brings to the table. Instead the consensus around here seems to go for the exciting, flashy offensive guy. Are we really at heart more like the ESPN-worshiping D'Antoni-loving masses than we let on?
2. Maybe it's just that Durant wore burnt orange for a year. If Oden played for UT and Durant played for tOSU would we feel the same? Or if they played for UConn and North Carolina?
Maybe. But I've seen Durant do some pretty incredible things in the short time I've been aware of his existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
I never said D was not important. It has obviously given us 4 championships. Im talking about how these guys will fare in the NBA as a whole. Oden still has to prove his defensive prowess in the NBA against the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Kobe attacking the rim, etc. But he cant hit a bucket from the floor to save his life, unless he is right under the rim. And honestly, Portland made the right choice, for THEIR team. Oden fits better because they already have scoring. Durant is money from anywhere on the floor and plays alot tougher than people think, battling for boards. Further more I would feel the same no matter what school they played for. No one, as a freshman in college has done what Durant has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
What! Have you even seen these guys play.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Yes, I have, have you? I've seen them both, in person (twice for Oden, three times for Durant) and on TV (multiple times each), but you don't have to take my opinion. Both were tested prior to the draft, and Oden was more athletic across the board. Durant may look faster to you, because he's a rail, but Oden moves his 260 very well. In fact, the stopwatch says he is considerably faster and quicker than Durant.
Please justify for me why Durant has the higher "upside." Is the fact that Oden looks 35 clouding your opinion, or is it the burnt orange bias which someone else speculated about? Do you not trust Pop's opinion, either?
Oden is bigger, faster, quicker, smarter, a more proven winner, can anchor both sides of the floor, and is just beginning to tap into his offensive game after playing with a broken wrist this year.
It's a no-brainer. Oden is the best big man prospect since Duncan, without question.
All of the experts are stressing defense with Oden....strictly defense. I think a view of him is perhaps clouded by the broken wrist though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Ohio State fan?
Wow, you get around alot, seeing both play in person and all. While your seeing them play in the nosebleed section, Im seeing them play up close on T.V. Come on dude, I don't have a burnt orange bias, but I think you seem like you are biased towards anything NOT burnt orange. That aside, If you need justification on why Durant has a higher upside, look it up on youtube or read my last post. Question, where did read that Pop counseled Pritchard about picking Oden over Druant? Link please...Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
No, just objective. Which of those statements is inaccurate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwaters
still waiting for link..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
If your stupid post was true and based on something more than 1 draft camp report and alot of assumptions and weak opinions, I'd think the same way too.
Oden is not faster than Durant. I don't care what the time read on that stupid camp, I've seen the kid run.
Plus I think its very unfair and biased to say "Oden will get better and better" and just assume Durant wont. This is a trap alot of posters fall into and if you logically regress you realize its based on:
1) the fact Oden sucks as an offensive player (Oden supporters use the word raw instead of suck here)
2) Durant is already a bad ass billy boy at every possible position on the court. Did we say "Carmelo isn't going to get better" just because he came into league as one of hte purest young scorers ever? No...But we're saying that about Durant just cuz so many people have a boner for Oden.
I'd pick Oden over Durant but it would be very very tough decision, because Durant has just as much upside as Oden.
The bottom line is you pick a big man first. That is the only reason Oden > Durant.
Both of these guys have unlimited potential. Oden can be "David Robinson reincarnated" like TPark said in another post....but Durant can also be "Michael Jordan if he was stretched from head to toe to become a taller player"
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Factor
Oden played in San Antonio in the NCAA tourney, which is where I saw him. Maybe you weren't aware of this. Durant played quite a few games in the state of Texas, although I'm sure you're quite aware of that. As I said, I've also seen them on TV multiple times. Your suggestion to "look it up on youtube" sounds a lot like the folks who think James White is first-ballot HOF.
I see you caught your mistake about who the GM for the Blazers is, you can probably find the link yourself detailing Pritchard's thought process where Pop verbally pimp-slapped him for even considering Durant. It's linked a couple of different places on this board.
So, your objective refutation consists of a "go see youtube" reference and your own imagination of Durant as a cross between Teen Wolf and Jesus Shuttlesworth. Got it.
Sorry if I'm coming off as a little flippant, but it boggles my mind that after seeing so much championship basketball in the last decade, some Spurs fans still don't know what really matters in basketball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
response to 1)
Durant is not just flash and offense, thats just all you saw on sportscenter. I cannot count how many clutch blocks he got or when the opposing team's best swingman had the ball in a pivotal point, grinned when he saw Durant backing off him, tried to take him off the dribble and failed miserably. They would get blocked every-single-time. I had 1 major knock on Durant while he was at UT: His conditioning or stamina sucked. But Barnes also played him almost the entire game every game. When he was still fresh, and had his legs, he showed flashes of defensive dominance himself.
Shoog I'm not kidding, he got a block every-single-time a guy went 1 on 1 with him from the perimeter, big or little.
Put more concisely, Spurs fans should like Oden more than Durant but dont sell Durant short as a put it in the basket guy, he has potential to be tayshaun prince Code Red on defense. Which the spurs sure could use themselves soon..
response to 2)
I'd be pimping oden like no other like i am pimping durant. But Durant still did some crazy shiznit the short time he was here
The raining-down-from-upon three point shooting performance against Kansas 1st half (before he hurt his ankle..)
Blocking every scrub that tried to take him off the dribble every time.
Something you don't hear about Durant is that he's a pretty damn good leader. He had everyone believing in him and themselves by mid season. That is something you're born with, you don't learn. And can be invaluable in big game situations.
The three weaknesses of Kevin are: Muthle, stamina, learning how to get others involved more efficiently.
Listen, on this fourm if you are going to quote someone, back it up with a link, don't tell us to find it ourselves. That only leads people to belive that you are pulling it out of your ass. And yeah, we as Spurs fans know what wins championship. Its called team basketball, team defense, its having a big man who does it on the defensive end AND who could put up 30 a night if he wanted. You are not going to see that from Oden who can't hit shit from the floor. Don't be ignorant enough to compare Oden to Duncan because their is no comparison.
Ooh, off to a bad start already...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Actually, my post was based off a lot of facts, some highly reasonable assumptions, and some very well-supported opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Facts:
1) objective measurements of speed, quickness, athleticism, strength, intelligence and height from tests which measured both of the guys in question
2) the well known fact that Oden played with a broken wrist which hampered his game
3) the fact that Oden has lost only 16 games TOTAL in his entire basketball career
Highly reasonable assumptions:
1) the bigger the guy is, the later he will reach his full potential. Not a perfect correlation, but is true more often than not.
2) that a major injury to a player's shooting wrist/hand, will prevent him from showing his full offensive game. We should maybe consider this a fact since Oden played better offensively as his wrist started to get stronger and more flexible.
Well-supported opinions that Oden is better
1) Greg Popovich
2) Kevin Pritchard
3) "Can't be Faded." Oh, that's you? So despite the fact that you admit to a heavy longhorn bias, YOU would pick Oden? Ok... what was your argument about again?
Your subjective opinion is better and more accurate than objective measurements. Got it. Oh, and we're actually talking about relative speed here, so you need to have seen BOTH kids run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Actually, the premise of this thread was that DURANT has so much more upside than ODEN. I do think Durant will continue to improve. He may even be able to bench his own weight, eventually. ;) As I said, I think Durant will be special. But, based on objective criteria, Oden actually has more room for improvement. He did play with a broken wrist, and he is still just a young pup pivot, and he is freakishly athletic for his size, and he already is good enough to lead his team to the verge of a national title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Be careful, someone may come along and call such an opinion stupid...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Actually, I'd guess that most people have read one of the other threads, on this same board, that linked the article in question. I'm pretty sure that operates as an exception to the "I'm too lazy to do the research myself, so can you do the legwork for me" rule, but I would need to check my board regulation book, which apparently I should have gotten when I signed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Factor
On a related note, I didn't notice you giving me the link to the Durant youtubes that apparently are so critical to your argument, but I'll let that slide.
Have a good 4th of July Eve...
SuperDave, who is your college team? In other words, who do you support?
I'm glad the pre-draft debate about this wasn't enough.
Durant will probably score a lot. Good for him. Oden will win more titles.
I gave you that one in my postQuote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
who gives a shit? It's a fact yes but its not a fact he'd have averaged 10 points more if his wrist was healthy. Typical "i watch espn and think I know whats up" post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Yes because we all know basketball is a one man sport.Quote:
3) the fact that Oden has lost only 16 games TOTAL in his entire basketball career
I bolded the word assumption.Quote:
Highly reasonable assumptions:
1) the bigger the guy is, the later he will reach his full potential. Not a perfect correlation, but is true more often than not.
2) that a major injury to a player's shooting wrist/hand, will prevent him from showing his full offensive game. We should maybe consider this a fact since Oden played better offensively as his wrist started to get stronger and more flexible.
I bolded the word opinion. Also show me the quote where Popovich says what you say in full, and backs up your argument in full.Quote:
Well-supported opinions that Oden is better
1) Greg Popovich
2) Kevin Pritchard
3) "Can't be Faded." Oh, that's you? So despite the fact that you admit to a heavy longhorn bias, YOU would pick Oden? Ok... what was your argument about again?
Nope but my post had more eye witnessed truths in it than your espn-radio listening ass post did.Quote:
Your subjective opinion is better and more accurate than objective measurements. Got it. Oh, and we're actually talking about relative speed here, so you need to have seen BOTH kids run.
Based on one draft camp, yup, its hands down that the future can definitely be told based on one draft camp workout. :rolleyes Flawless lock tight fact (and the only one) backing up your stupid post.Quote:
Actually, the premise of this thread was that DURANT has so much more upside than ODEN. I do think Durant will continue to improve. He may even be able to bench his own weight, eventually. ;) As I said, I think Durant will be special. But, based on objective criteria, Oden actually has more room for improvement. He did play with a broken wrist, and he is still just a young pup pivot, and he is freakishly athletic for his size, and he already is good enough to lead his team to the verge of a national title.
Other than that I just keep seeing "broken wrist", and again the proof that your 15 year old brain cannot understand that the game of basketball is a team sport.
Remind me what spot that lame ass OSU point guard got drafted at again?
Your post is weak. I can use the same point A and arrive at a different point B: OSU got that far with oden's broken wrist proves how bad ass his other teammates were.
Ta-da.
I said what I said. You sound like an idiot poster when you go all out and base it on one fact. I don't consider myself an idiot because even though I like Durant alot I can still pick Oden and not come up with a bull shit gung ho post about it, but rather point out that Shaq and Duncan have dominated titles and its pretty fair to assume a big man is more of a necessity on a championship team than a wing.
However you didn't say one thing in your post that makes any of us believe you've watched greg oden in depth and you sound like a homer who listens to espn radio all day and reguritates what he hears in a more jumbled manner.
Thanks for the answers, CBF.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Forgive me if I suspect your opinion has some burnt orange influence, too.
Kevin Durant = No BigXII title for agg, so yeah you're probably right.
I have no idea who will end up being the better choice of the two. The traditionalist in me says Oden, and it's hard to argue with what his team did the one year he was there.
Also, no way is this another Sam Bowie vs. Michael Jordan, because Bowie was incredibly overrated in college (even worse, Mel Turpin was the #6 pick that year). This may be more like Olajuwon vs. Jordan. In retrospect, sure Jordan was the better player, but do you think for one moment Houston ever regrets drafting Hakeem?
I think it's more number two than number one. Well, I hope at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
I'll give it to UT homers that they are one of the most hardcore homer groups I've ever seen. If Oden went to UT, all we'd see on this forum is threads asking to trade Duncan for Oden. Oden would be a local icon and 50% of the forum would have Oden in their avatar.
I've seen UT homers homer out on everyone from Travis Mays to PJ Tucker so this comes as no surprise. Durant is going to be awesome and I'd say he had the best freshman season in NCAA history, but that doesn't change the fact that UT homers would be hyping Oden up as a better than David Robinson prospect if he had worn orange.
For a moment, I thought Sequ had stolen your password.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I refuse to call that a corny joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Durant is fricking awesome. Oden is just another 7 foot tool who has no shot, is clumsy and can't play with his back to the basket.
Durant will destroy teams. He can shoot, dribble, postup, defend, and kick ass.
Has nothing to do with the orange. Shit, I went to Palo Alto..
Sorry timvp, but bullshit. I wouldn't trade Duncan for ANY player. Before or after him. If Im a UT homer, then Im a Spurs homer also...Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Why would people view a T-Mac/Garnett hybrid that highly? Haven't both of them showed that their style cannot carry a team?
You've gone into hiding and broken kori rule number 1 and smoked some hardcore drugs if you think the CBF would ever trade anyone in any situation for Duncan EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I would be hyping him as the next robinson for sure, but you must be talkin about my little brother LaMarcus Bryant, that slacker.
Oden sucks. I wouldn't worry about him threatening the Spurs dominance in the NBA if I were you.
Nope. I think Durant is a hell of a player. I just think that until/if he bulks up and learns to play in the post, he's nothing but another Dirk Nowitzki.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
You still need a dominant big man in the low post to win a title, and Oden is more of one than Durant.
Durant will win more scoring titles, Oden more rings.
Dirk?! That's a low blow AHF, real cheap shot. I thought you were classier than that.
Dirk?! Real real low..