Tim Duncan Extended for Two-more Years

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

What do you think woul happen if he went public with a statement like "I left $11 million on the table and now ownership isn't using it to improve the team"? That's pretty good leverage.

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This is true...and Duncan may have thought that leverage would be more powerful by then then another optout....




But anyone that thinks Duncan doesn't apply this pressure to the Spurs, extremely effectively....hasn't been watching his career. This is not something that just sounds good....Duncan has always been noncommital about his future in SA...and he used that to manipulate the Spurs into being a winning organization...

He also used it, to manipulate the city of SA into building the AT&T Center...


This is what Duncan did that made the biggest impact on this team IMO...

Most guys want longterm deals and max years with max dollars...Duncan has never gone for it...not a single time, and it's highly unusual...it's also kept the Spurs on their toes for his entire career, and made them the championship organization they have become.

What an awesome off/preseason!!!! We picked up some nice players, Beno is gone, Duncan is sticking around (at a discount, no less)...and now? It's officially game day! :danceclub

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Originally Posted by whottt

I don't like it and let me tell you why....

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I just started laughing when I read that. I wanted to see how you could spin this.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Duncan has used his opting out and signing elsewhere leverage to force the Spurs into being commited to winning...he never let them get comfortable and think they could stop being competitive in FA and in pursuing every advantage...

Now...that leverage is gone and Duncan will no longer be able to apply it.


And that makes me a little nervous...Duncan's pressure on the FO is the reason we've won the last 3 titles....


I applaud Duncan for doing this of course, and I'm happy to see Duncan get rewarded with guranteed money up till 2012...


But I liked him being able to put pressure on the FO to surround him with talent...it's a big reason we've won these titles.


People are always asking about the difference between Drob and Duncan...that's it right there...Drob wouldn't put a gun to their head to field a winning team, he'd do it to make them a community focused organization, but not a championship contender...Duncan did put that pressure on the Spurs...every couple of years he's been able to apply it...and now he won't be able to apply it anymore. Makes me just a little bit nervous...the inmates now control the asylum.

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1) Duncan can now say "I sacrificed $11M so you better go out and spend it on who I say". That's a pretty powerful piece of ammunition Duncan has at his disposal.

If Holt tries to be cheap, Duncan can pull the "I gave you money" card. That's perhaps the most powerful card that a player can use on an owner. Duncan could tell Holt that he's leaving and Holt wouldn't care because he could sell the team for like a $400M profit. But if Duncan tells Holt to spend the money he gave him, there's little else Holt could do than just spend the money.

2) Duncan has been under contract for a while now. It's not like he was going year to year to force the Spurs to keep winning. And really, Duncan hasn't been a threat to leave since the 2000 season. No team can pay him anywhere close to as much as the Spurs can since the CBA was changed.

3) This extension was expected. By your wording, you act surprised that Duncan got extended. Duncan confirmed last year that he'd extend his deal. I don't see a way to spin this to say Duncan has lost some clout. If anything, Duncan just became higher on the food chain in the decision-making process and now he has tangible reasons for why Holt should pony up money when asked.

If you remember right, it was Duncan who said that he'd pay the difference between what Holt was offering Parker and what Parker wanted. Duncan saying that had no effect on the negotiations. However, in the future, Duncan can point to the money he contributed to the Spurs and say he already paid the money. Basically, Duncan will have much more say than he had previously.

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Originally Posted by Big P

Dude..STFU already...go find another team to cheer for..its apparent that the Spurs can't do anything right..We only extended him by 2 years for $11 mil than what he could & should have taken, now we have him by the balls and he wont want to win..classic.

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You STFU you illiterate fuck...learn to read first, then post.

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Originally Posted by MagnusKrauss

Are there any precedents for this? Has any other marquee player agreed to less money from the same team?

Duncan should get something named after him for this. maybe Duncantown, Texas? any takers?

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magnusdrakenkrauss

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Yeah....I believe David Robinson did, for the very reason of keeping Duncan. I think the whole D-Rob, CWebb fiasco put him in a bad light....

$244K per season game.

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Originally Posted by whottt

He's got no leverage to do it anymore...this contract takes Duncan to a reasonably advanced age, to the point where you have to consider he will no longer have that kind of superstar/the franchise leverage at the end of it.

And for the first time in his career...they've got him by the balls, instead of vice versa.

The hell he doesn't...it wasn't but about 3 years ago Tony Parker nearly walked over 2 million dollars...

You never trust the business part of it over the individual...

The Spurs have never been able to completely be certain Duncan was going to spend the rest of his career here...until now. Now it's virtually a done deal...and he's got no more leverage against them. And no...I don't trust them to work as hard at it without that leverage being applied.


Of course I'm happy this makes it a virtual lock Duncan will finish his career as a Spur...and as always...it speaks well of Duncan that he took one for the team...


But you know...he did this the last time as well. Left money on the table and didn't take the max he could have...and he also had that opt out to hold over their heads, at a point when he could still be at his dominant peak.


I don't mean to make it sound like it's a negative...because it really isn't...at the same time, I don't trust the business aspect of the Spurs to always place a priority on winning...

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You do give me food for thought.
I can see each of your points clearly.
But I trust Duncan.
I don't think he would have done this if he didn't trust the organization to do the right thing by him.
He's brought 4 Championships to this team.
And he's not done.

I think everyone knew Duncan would retire a Spur. Whether he had an opt out or not. He helped them by leaving $ to continue to build this team. Around him.
I don't think they'll break his trust in them. I think they'll stay committed to winning. He's shown them that he can bring the Trophy home with different casts of characters around him. They'll bring him what he needs over these next few years. And he'll bring them the Championships.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the national media. If it was Garnett or Kobe who took less money to help the club, they'd be hailed as saints. With Duncan, I'll be mildly surprised if it gets much more than a mention.

Tim could always demand a trade, if he feels the Spurs are not builing around him like they should be. That could be alot of leverage...

Anyways I am so happy he will be with us an extra 2 years. He is very loyal. Hopefully this rubs off on a certain point guard who has talked about leaving when his contract is up.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I just started laughing when I read that. I wanted to see how you could spin this.

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Hey...you're the one on the Spurs for being about $$$ instead of winning this past summer.

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1) Duncan can now say "I sacrificed $11M so you better go out and spend it on who I say". That's a pretty powerful piece of ammunition Duncan has at his disposal.

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True...and I agreed with Shoogar when he made that point.

He may have decided that's better than another opt out at the age of 33 or so.

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If Holt tries to be cheap, Duncan can pull the "I gave you money" card. That's perhaps the most powerful card that a player can use on an owner. Duncan could tell Holt that he's leaving and Holt wouldn't care because he could sell the team for like a $400M profit. But if Duncan tells Holt to spend the money he gave him, there's little else Holt could do than just spend the money.

2) Duncan has been under contract for a while now. It's not like he was going year to year to force the Spurs to keep winning. And really, Duncan hasn't been a threat to leave since the 2000 season. No team can pay him anywhere close to as much as the Spurs can since the CBA was changed.

3) This extension was expected. By your wording, you act surprised that Duncan got extended. Duncan confirmed last year that he'd extend his deal. I don't see a way to spin this to say Duncan has lost some clout. If anything, Duncan just became higher on the food chain in the decision-making process and now he has tangible reasons for why Holt should pony up money when asked.

If you remember right, it was Duncan who said that he'd pay the difference between what Holt was offering Parker and what Parker wanted. Duncan saying that had no effect on the negotiations. However, in the future, Duncan can point to the money he contributed to the Spurs and say he already paid the money. Basically, Duncan will have much more say than he had previously.

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It could be he actually increased his leverage over what another opt out would have given him...due to the age he would have been.


I'll concede that point...


At the same time...I've gotten used to that leverage Duncan had...I've grown quite fond of it...and I've marveled at the way he's used it to prod the Spurs where he wanted them to go...

The thing about Holt is....

The worry of loss of Duncan to FA has always been to the Spurs...not just about championships, not about PR, but about winning period...about ticket sales, about playoff revenue.

If he walked there was always a chance all that would go out the window...now he's just got PR or retirement leverage, they can tell him(and us) to FO, and still make the playoffs, sell tickets etc, assuming he doesn't retire. I don't know that'll be as effective.

I'll miss him having the Spurs by the balls....


Just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by BSPN

He's so boring he doesn't know how to spend $11 million. I bet Steve Nash would take that money and know how to spend it!

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What a gesture by Tim Duncan. He didn't have to take less. He deserved every bit of that $11,000,000 and more. Everybody would have been happy that he stayed with the Spurs. In a present day where A-Rod (who can't get the job done when it counts) turns down a 5 year contract for $30 million/year, for him to take $11 million less for the better of the team is unreal, simply amazing.

I'm shocked and very proud of Tim Duncan.

Thanks Tim. Your actions speak very loud.

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Originally Posted by Gooshie

Potential Free Agents in 2010:
Wade
LeBron
Carmelo

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wow:wow

:elephant

any big men? I think I'd leave LeBroom's name out of contention. He wants to be one of the richest men on the World. S.A.might not be IT.

It brought memories of how $1m made a difference in re-signing Parker the last time. (Duncan even offered to pay, only it wasn't allowed). It took how many days? It amazes me Duncan didn't mind an $$11m cut this time :lol

Duncan did almost the same thing after 2002.

I sure hope Tim talked this over with Amy first . . .

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Originally Posted by whottt

I'll miss him having the Spurs by the balls....

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When was the last time anyone thought Duncan was serious about leaving?

Once Duncan re-signed in 2000 and with the CBA rules as they are, there has been virtually no chance he could walk. There was a small chance around the Steve Smith era if things started spiraling downward and yet the Spurs didn't react by spending more money to appease Duncan. In fact they let free agents walk and relied on the draft. That doesn't sound like a franchise that is in a panic mode to improve right away.

And once he re-signed again in 2003, he was under contract all the way through next summer. What leverage was he using for the last two championships? He had no "I'mma leave if you don't spend money" leverage. If he couldn't get Holt to pay Parker $2M over six-years, that shows how far his leverage had slipped.

Now he has actual tangible leverage that he can flex instead of just saying he's going to leave at the age of 33 and take less money to join the Memphis Grizzlies or whoever has salary cap room next year :lol

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Originally Posted by whottt

Duncan did almost the same thing after 2002.

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That wasn't really comparable. If I remember correctly, he opted out of his contract and signed for more money, however the first year paid him less than if he didn't opt out. By doing that, it opened up about $1.5M of cap room the Spurs could use to go after free agents that summer.

He didn't actually give up money, he just rearranged his year to year percentage increases, basically.

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Originally Posted by milkyway21

wow:wow

:elephant

any big men? I think I'd leave LeBroom's name out of contention. He wants to be one of the richest men on the World. S.A.might not be IT.

It brought memories of how $1m made a difference in re-signing Parker the last time. (Duncan even offered to pay, only it wasn't allowed). It took how many days? It amazes me Duncan didn't mind an $$11m cut this time :lol

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I'm not sure if Chris Bosh has an opt-out clause in 2010 like those 3 or not.

I think the most realistic target would be Wade. By that time, Shaq and Riley will be all but gone, and he'll be looking for a new place. He knows what it takes to win, and he knows first-hand how a Hall of Fame big man and a Hall of Fame coach can make life easier for him.

Plus, it seems as if Pop and Wade have a good relationship from the 2004 Olympics.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the national media. If it was Garnett or Kobe who took less money to help the club, they'd be hailed as saints. With Duncan, I'll be mildly surprised if it gets much more than a mention.

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Sad but true.
I get alerts on Duncan from various sources. So far tonight not a word.
Everything with Kobe's name in it I get multiples of the second it happens.

I will say it again though.
I think he's the best in this league.
On and off the court.
It's the NBA's and the media's loss that they haven't found a way that they can market him better.

I'm glad I follow him.
It's an honor to be a Duncan fan. And not just tonight.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Most guys want longterm deals and max years with max dollars...Duncan has never gone for it...not a single time

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Except for the seven year MAX deal he's on now, you mean. He signed it in 2003, and while it had the year 5 opt out clause (which he now cannot use), that's pretty standard these days. Tim had a 3 year rookie contract, one short 3 year MAX deal, and one full length MAX deal. He also has all of the leverage he needs, as he can simply retire any time he feels the Spurs aren't putting a Championship product on the floor.

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Originally Posted by timvp

2) Duncan has been under contract for a while now. It's not like he was going year to year to force the Spurs to keep winning. And really, Duncan hasn't been a threat to leave since the 2000 season. No team can pay him anywhere close to as much as the Spurs can since the CBA was changed.

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I'm going to challenge you on this point, Duncan was non commital when his last contract was up..


And just to prove he meant it for the sake of this argument...Duncan didn't take the home town deal on his last contract...IIRC, he took the deal he could have gotten from any team....the six year deal.

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3) This extension was expected. By your wording, you act surprised that Duncan got extended.

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Oh I'm not surprised they wanted to extend him...I am surprised he changed his strategy though...


Then again...

This summer was the first time I've ever heard Duncan clearly say, with no qualifieers he planned on finishing his career as a Spur and wanted to do so.

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Duncan confirmed last year that he'd extend his deal. I don't see a way to spin this to say Duncan has lost some clout. If anything, Duncan just became higher on the food chain in the decision-making process and now he has tangible reasons for why Holt should pony up money when asked.


If you remember right, it was Duncan who said that he'd pay the difference between what Holt was offering Parker and what Parker wanted. Duncan saying that had no effect on the negotiations.

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Yeah..that wasn't a threat to leave.

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However, in the future, Duncan can point to the money he contributed to the Spurs and say he already paid the money.

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I'll concede that...

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Basically, Duncan will have much more say than he had previously.

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I won't concede that...I don't think he has as much leverage now as he's had in the past. But he might have more now than he would have if he waited till the opt out...that's a legitimate point.

I hope you're right though...and I hope the Spurs honor what he did in the spirit it was intended...but it's one thing for Pop and RC to want do that...and it's entirely another to get Holt to do it...without the threat of losing his mealticket. Then again...his mealticket value probably wouldn't be as much as it has been by the time this contract ran out.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Except for the seven year MAX deal he's on now, you mean. He signed it in 2003, and while it had the year 5 opt out clause (which he now cannot use), that's pretty standard these days. Tim had a 3 year rookie contract, one short 3 year MAX deal, and one full length MAX deal. He also has all of the leverage he needs, as he can simply retire any time he feels the Spurs aren't putting a Championship product on the floor.

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False...the deal he's on now is not the max deal he could have gotten...he did not take all the money he could have gotten on his last contract.

He might have taken the 7 year deal, but he didn't take everything he could have gotten...we made a big deal about it on the forum at the time.


I don't know enough about the CBA(then or now) to know the specifics...but I know he didn't take the max he could have gotten.

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Originally Posted by timvp

That wasn't really comparable. If I remember correctly, he opted out of his contract and signed for more money, however the first year paid him less than if he didn't opt out. By doing that, it opened up about $1.5M of cap room the Spurs could use to go after free agents that summer.

He didn't actually give up money, he just rearranged his year to year percentage increases, basically.

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Hmmm...I'm pretty sure he left some money on the table on that deal. Maybe I'm wrong...it could have been something like you said there...but it seemed like he did leave money on the table on his last deal.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

He also has all of the leverage he needs, as he can simply retire any time he feels the Spurs aren't putting a Championship product on the floor.

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A retirement won't cause a fan revolt/(ticket backlash) like him leaving for another team becuse the Spurs won't commit to winning...it's not the same kind of leverage.

One more reason for me to have Duncan as my favourite player. Props to his parents and whoever educated him while he was growing up. You don't see people like Duncan very often, you only hear about the greedy ones. I know he doesn't really need more $$, he won't miss those 11mi. But what he did shows his type of character and that is what separates him from other NBA stars.

Less :greedy , more :flag:, that's a true winner mentality.

:clap :toast

:worthy: Tim Duncan