Spurs vs. Kings - Nov. 2 Random Thoughts

-Nice to see Udoka come into the game and produce. It's usually hard for perimeter players to figure out how to play within the system but Udoka seems like a natural. He still has a lot to learn but he'll be an asset if he can keep progressing.

-Beno should get plenty of time at point guard for that team. No one on the Kings seemed capable of even pretending to be a point guard.

-Manu's energy this season is through the roof. His stats weren't great but his energy has been awesome in preseason and into the regular season.

-I'd like to see Parker step back a few feet to avoid taking long two pointers as he has in the first three games of the season. His three-point stroke looks good enough that he shouldn't have to shoot long twos anymore.

-Duncan's rebounding in the first half was a big key to getting that big lead. Also good to see him nail all nine free throws.

-Finley and Barry both doing a good job of shooting shots when they are open. They both struggled at times last year in that area.

-Bowen's defense on Kevin Martin was impressive. It wasn't until he got switched off him that Martin started to score.

-Oberto's rebounding was really good. He's playing at a higher level than he was playing last regular season. Hopefully that keeps up.

-Elson is active and is playing with confidence. With the free reign pop has given him, Elson should be able to put up pretty good stats this year.

-Bonner on pick-and-pops with Manu or Parker could become deadly because Bonner's three-pointer when he pops is usually money. Bonner's D is still a work in progress, though.

-Darius Washington was out of the rotation for the first time this year. However, I'm guessing this was due to the Kings not really having a point guard to match up against. Instead, Pop put Manu at backup point which allowed Udoka to guard Martin. We'll see if this was a one game thing or something Pop could do more of.

-It's hard not to get excited about Mahinmi. He came in with six minutes to go and pretty much dominated as much as one can dominate in the final six minutes of a blowout. If I remember right, he got an And-1, followed by a block, followed by a nice jump hook. Then he had another block soon after. He's still far away from being able to contribute but he's looking like a nice prospect.

-Pop is probably the only unhappy one. Pop LOVES early season losses. He thinks that the team will listen to him more if they lose early in the year. With the Spurs 3-0, this is a nightmare for Pop :lol

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He's still far away from being able to contribute but he's looking like a nice prospect.

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Yeah in two years when Oberto is gone he should be able to slide in just fine.

Right now, Franbrisco Elberto is averaging 11.5/11.5. I'll take that.

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He still has a lot to learn but he'll be an asset if he can keep progressing.

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In your opinion what does he need to learn?

The defensive scheme? Offensive?

Ian's first block was a jaw dropper. Who the fuck blocks a shot at the FT line extended, and does it easily, to boot? He just climbed right up the ladder. Right now, he's a raw freakish athlete, but if they can actually turn him into a basketball player, he's going to be a very good one.

Ian looked freaking incredible. I'd love to get some youtube video of his time on the floor. That jump hook was pretty ugly though; it looked like he threw it on a rope, and got a kind roll. :lol

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Right now, Franbrisco Elberto is averaging 11.5/11.5. I'll take that.

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Last year, they averaged 9.5/9.5 in the regular season and 9/8 in the postseason. I'd definitely take 11.5/11.5 from those two.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

In your opinion what does he need to learn?

The defensive scheme? Offensive?

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Defensively, he hasn't mastered exactly where he has help. Offensively, I think he needs to work on his shot selection.

Luckily, Udoka is smart and should learn his role pretty fast.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Ian looked freaking incredible.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Ian's first block was a jaw dropper. Who the fuck blocks a shot at the FT line extended, and does it easily, to boot? He just climbed right up the ladder. Right now, he's a raw freakish athlete, but if they can actually turn him into a basketball player, he's going to be a very good one.

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Yeah, at the very worst, Mahinmi is fun to watch. His athleticism is definitely NBA level and he seems to understand his role more and more on defense each time I see him.

Right now, he's basically a Steven Hunter clone but he's extremely young and raw. Hopefully the Spurs can let him grow into something nice. He's a couple years away but so far, he's much better than I expected. With playing time, he should start to figure out how he can succeed in the American game. Thank the basketball gods for the D-League.

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Right now, he's basically a Steven Hunter clone

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Wish you could depend on him more. he would be perfect to throw at the Mavericks.

timvp, how is Ian's lateral movement, his leaping ability is off the charts, but do u think he could develop into someone who we could see guarding quicker big men like a Dirk or a Stoudemire.

I'm impressed by the Spurs sharpness and how fresh the whole team looks.

First, this team looks more in shape than any Spurs team I've ever seen and the dividends are showing. Pat Riley needs to take notes from Pop because for all the talk he gets about his world famous regimens, his team is always injured and/or lethargic.

Second, Duncan and Manu really look refreshed from having the summer off. Parker is still young, but I hope he starts relaxing more in his offseasons to keep his energy.

Third, the team looks very cohesive in their play. If they are ironing out any plays and personnel, they are doing a good job of keeping it to a minimum.

Overall, the Spurs have come back better than I ever imagined. I read someone say they would be happy and fat. Instead they are lean, eager to play, and precision like while the players and coaches figure out new substitutions, minutes, and playing together.

Specifically, I really like Darius Washington. If he can continue to shed weight and work hard in practice, he will be a very solid find at backup point for the Spurs. He is a change of pace from Tony, but doesn't disrupt the Spurs. Instead, he provides a different look for teams to consider. He isn't afraid of anyone and he's very aggresive so that's half the battle right there.

One other player I am especially impressed with is Matt Bonner. Bonner is in tremendous shape and with his new found athleticism, he has expanded what he can do on the court. The Spurs will lean on him more during the playoffs and I think he will be ready.

The champions are looking good 3 games in.

I didn't see the game, but who was Udoka guarding?

I didnt either...but i assume it was Martin during the 3rd and 4th quarters...

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Originally Posted by mystargtr34

timvp, how is Ian's lateral movement, his leaping ability is off the charts, but do u think he could develop into someone who we could see guarding quicker big men like a Dirk or a Stoudemire.

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It's tough to tell. He's obviously played center more than he has power forward and isn't overly comfortable away from the basket. Hopefully when he's with the Toros they can play him at power forward so he can work on his perimeter skills.

He appears to be pretty mobile but it's tough to tell until he's put in the situation.

So who gets in the dog house first?

Thoughts instead of grades

Could be.


I'll take that kind of insight, and thanks timvp for it. I can't watch the games so I vision the players :D

But the Houston game I'm gonna see.

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Originally Posted by timvp

-Manu's energy this season is through the roof. His stats weren't great but his energy has been awesome in preseason and into the regular season.

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Are you just referring to Manu's game last night? For sure, Manu filled-up the stat sheet the past games excluding last night.

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Originally Posted by E20

I didn't see the game, but who was Udoka guarding?

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Mostly Kevin Martin.

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Originally Posted by jmard5

Are you just referring to Manu's game last night?

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Yeah. And like I said, even though his stats don't show it, his energy level was great and a big part of the win.

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

Thoughts instead of grades

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The grades may return. I have to think about how to best do it this season. Maybe weekly grades until the playoffs. Maybe weekly grades until SPAM. Maybe just go back to grades after each game.

I'll have to plan it out.

Ime Udoka is going to be a great defensive piece for the spurs when they play in these matchups:

Boston: Udoka and Bowen vs Allen and Pierce

Denver: Udoka and Bowen vs Allen and Anthony

Dallas: Udoka and Bowen vs Howard and Dirk

I'm liking the new guys

Nice work LJ, and to all - great thread. :tu :)

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Right now, Franbrisco Elberto is averaging 11.5/11.5. I'll take that.

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:lol

Yup, that + hustle is all we can ask for, and more than our centres have given us since DRob times. :tu

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Originally Posted by timvp

-Pop is probably the only unhappy one. Pop LOVES early season losses. He thinks that the team will listen to him more if they lose early in the year. With the Spurs 3-0, this is a nightmare for Pop :lol

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True...plus his doghouse is empty. This is the first time I can think of that the season has begun with Pop having an empty doghouse. Even the two guys likely to be IR'ed, Washington and Mahinmi, are hustling defense over offense players.

Ack! The last time the Spurs started 3-0 was 2000-01.


:td 3-0 :vomit:

Cool...if we win the next game it'll be the first 4-0 start in team history.

Really....the first 4-0 start in history??? Damn...

This looks like the strongest, deepest Spurs roster ever. Usually, there's a 12th man (or two) who we know will never really contribute. I can't think of who that is on this team. (And Splitter will only make it deeper and better next year.)

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Right now, Franbrisco Elberto is averaging 11.5/11.5. I'll take that.

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Sig-worthy! :lol :lol :lol

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Originally Posted by mystargtr34

Really....the first 4-0 start in history??? Damn...

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They might have started a season 4-0 in the ABA days...but not since they joined the NBA.


I know it seems hard to believe....



This is only the 4th 3-0 start in team history.


The others are:

84-85
99-00
00-01

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something different about this squad. Usually they just start off the season slow and screw around until March.

This team has come out looking like it's on a mission. The guys look in great shape, Manu is fresh and is seeing the court tremendously well, Tim's hitting his FTs, and everyone on the team is busting their ass when they're on the court.

They look cohesive and determined, which could mean trouble for the league. They seem focused on that repeat, I like it.

something is different
does seem they care more now then they usually do
I expect a repeat

The new guys certainly help IMO... it must be refreshing to have a couple of young new faces around... especially guys like Ime (not that hes young) and D Wash with their attitude to the game and their past and what theyve been through. Even Ian. Manu is fresh, Parker is still buzzing from what he has achieved the past couple of months....Bonner is coming into his own, so is Elson... Fin and Brent are letting it fly.....everything is just different this year... its great man... i love it.

Mahinmi is young and he's athletic but he makes Elson look likes he's has a Horryesque basketball IQ. Hopefully it's because Ian just hasn't had any good schooling to date. If he's going to be a significant player it's critical that he show significant improvement over the course of a year in Austin. Not just offense but understanding defense and positioning and rotation.

TD 9-9 ft? Chip is going to have to work with Timmy, 100% ft? unacepptable... :lol
On other hands, I can't imagine other couple bigs better passing the ball in the paint like Tim and Oberto. Nice pass and assist Oberto to TD in two last game, big hands and brain

Tim shooting FT's good and the Spurs starting 3-0 are horrible omens for the Spurs.

In the 2000-2001 season the Spurs started the season 3-0 and Duncan had his finest FT shooting season when he shot @80% from the FT line...

In the playoffs that year, the Spurs were swept in the WCF by the largest average margin of defeat in WCF history.

Scary.

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Originally Posted by timvp

-Nice to see Udoka come into the game and produce. It's usually hard for perimeter players to figure out how to play within the system but Udoka seems like a natural. He still has a lot to learn but he'll be an asset if he can keep progressing.

-Beno should get plenty of time at point guard for that team. No one on the Kings seemed capable of even pretending to be a point guard.

-Manu's energy this season is through the roof. His stats weren't great but his energy has been awesome in preseason and into the regular season.

-I'd like to see Parker step back a few feet to avoid taking long two pointers as he has in the first three games of the season. His three-point stroke looks good enough that he shouldn't have to shoot long twos anymore.

-Duncan's rebounding in the first half was a big key to getting that big lead. Also good to see him nail all nine free throws.

-Finley and Barry both doing a good job of shooting shots when they are open. They both struggled at times last year in that area.

-Bowen's defense on Kevin Martin was impressive. It wasn't until he got switched off him that Martin started to score.

-Oberto's rebounding was really good. He's playing at a higher level than he was playing last regular season. Hopefully that keeps up.

-Elson is active and is playing with confidence. With the free reign pop has given him, Elson should be able to put up pretty good stats this year.

-Bonner on pick-and-pops with Manu or Parker could become deadly because Bonner's three-pointer when he pops is usually money. Bonner's D is still a work in progress, though.

-Darius Washington was out of the rotation for the first time this year. However, I'm guessing this was due to the Kings not really having a point guard to match up against. Instead, Pop put Manu at backup point which allowed Udoka to guard Martin. We'll see if this was a one game thing or something Pop could do more of.

-It's hard not to get excited about Mahinmi. He came in with six minutes to go and pretty much dominated as much as one can dominate in the final six minutes of a blowout. If I remember right, he got an And-1, followed by a block, followed by a nice jump hook. Then he had another block soon after. He's still far away from being able to contribute but he's looking like a nice prospect.

-Pop is probably the only unhappy one. Pop LOVES early season losses. He thinks that the team will listen to him more if they lose early in the year. With the Spurs 3-0, this is a nightmare for Pop :lol

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Pop said last night that he's having a hard time figuring out a way to rotate everyone in and out.
In fact, here you go...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271102024

While the Spurs are off to a good start, coach Gregg Popovich still has a few things to figure out, including his bench rotation.

"I feel very uncomfortable," he said. "I have no clue on how to sub them."

On Friday, his star players gave him the chance to tinker a little bit, with most of them sitting out much of the fourth quarter.

I'll take that problem any day!!!

How many three point shooters do we have now? This bench looks like one of the deepest we have ever had.

I'm already confident the Spurs are going to have a hell of a shot at repeating, old or not. Looks like these guys may be in better shape than anyone around the league at this time of year. I think they are ready to roll, and put to sleep the discussions about a dynasty.

I can hardly wait for the Houston game, with all the talk about the Spurs "screw up". Of course, it already appears that the play of Udoka and Washington have silenced a lot of the "FO screwed us" crowd.

I'm surprised how comfortable everyone looks out there. The new guys (Washington, Ian, Udoka) look like they've been playing with the team longer than they have. And last season guys (Bonner, Elson) look better. Not that work still isn't to be done but plenty of time to work it out

The energy and hustle is there and most impressive is the passing.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Tim shooting FT's good and the Spurs starting 3-0 are horrible omens for the Spurs.
Scary.

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These were my first thoughts also.

I hope this team proves to be different.
They sure seem different than the way they usually start a season.

I'm going to try to take it as a good omen instead of a bad one. :)

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"I feel very uncomfortable," he said. "I have no clue on how to sub them."

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Sorry pop, thats what you get for having a damn good team :)

how was Ime's defense last night? rotations? on ball defense? passing lanes? boxing out?


didn't watch the game

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Ian's first block was a jaw dropper. Who the fuck blocks a shot at the FT line extended, and does it easily, to boot? He just climbed right up the ladder. Right now, he's a raw freakish athlete, but if they can actually turn him into a basketball player, he's going to be a very good one.

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http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/...kings_spur.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something different about this squad. Usually they just start off the season slow and screw around until March.

This team has come out looking like it's on a mission. The guys look in great shape, Manu is fresh and is seeing the court tremendously well, Tim's hitting his FTs, and everyone on the team is busting their ass when they're on the court.

They look cohesive and determined, which could mean trouble for the league. They seem focused on that repeat, I like it.

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I agree, but I don't think its that they are 'on a mission' I think its just the team cohesiveness did not wear down or dissolve during the offseason....It's like we never stopped playing, we just picked up where we left off, hit the ground running so to speak.
I have to say I also tend to agree with Whottt about this being a horrible horrible omen............Usually we never see the spurs take care of business early and put away inferior teams with ease. That's something a Mavs or Suns team does.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Tim shooting FT's good and the Spurs starting 3-0 are horrible omens for the Spurs.

In the 2000-2001 season the Spurs started the season 3-0 and Duncan had his finest FT shooting season when he shot @80% from the FT line...

In the playoffs that year, the Spurs were swept in the WCF by the largest average margin of defeat in WCF history.

Scary.

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2001 doesn't mean squat. This is NOW. This is the SPURS. They are going to REPEAT. BOOK IT! :toast

How often do they have the SAME team year to year? Never? This is what I would expect from a team of vets who won the championship last year. They know the system, they know each other, just go out and play and beat scrub teams, not to mention they are just CLUTCH.

Deepest bench Spurs have ever had?

Another note on Darius Washington. I'm one who thinks by the end of the year he'll be the best Spurs back-up at the position of the Duncan era. Whether he's explicitly ready for the playoffs is another matter.

His offense and timing will come around. But two things I'm going to keep my eye on as positives are his steals and rebounds.

Reading some of these comments reminded me of the Mavs last season (after they got the jitters out after losing 4 straight in the Finals). They were on a mission and rolled right through the rest of the league and the season. And look how well that turned out.

I tend to think that much of the good play comes from people having played together so well and so long last year. Of course some of these guys have been together for 3 titles now - that's trust. The others feel good in their skins and the final bunch are finding their way more quickly than I would have anticipated - they clearly want to be here and be playing.

I don't sense the urgency to prove something that the Mavs had last year. There is freshness, energy and hustle, but I think Pop is also managing minutes really well. And given how deep the bench is going right now, that should continue. That is terrific. The tricky thing will be managing their peak - you don't want them to peak before March or April.

Having said that, while they are playing well, especially against inferior teams, their play is hardly playoff ball. How many turnovers last night? Far too many. Far too many stupid fouls. Defense is nowhere near where it needs to be (not that I'm concerned for 3 games in, just an observation). That's the sort of stuff that will come in time, and between managing the minutes and throwing bizarre lineups out to see what happens - that's where Pop will keep them going, I think.

I can always comfort myself with this thought - the Spurs always seem to find a way to make it competitive at the end, so I don't have to worry about them not knowing how to play in tight games. :lol

Well the Mavs didn't start out well last season. They and the Suns had terrible records in the beginning, but then just put it all together. But you're right that the Spurs haven't played a tough team yet. Looking forward to the Rockets game, that should be a good comparison.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something different about this squad. Usually they just start off the season slow and screw around until March.

This team has come out looking like it's on a mission. The guys look in great shape, Manu is fresh and is seeing the court tremendously well, Tim's hitting his FTs, and everyone on the team is busting their ass when they're on the court.

They look cohesive and determined, which could mean trouble for the league. They seem focused on that repeat, I like it.

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I agree.

I think the team is extremely dedicated as a whole. And I also think that Pop is being pretty damn tough on them (not that he usually isn't).

Some examples ...

Manu said that this year's training camp was the hardest/most intense that they have had since he has been here.

Last night after the game was over, the team went to lift weights right afterward, instead of going home immediately because they have the day off today.

Damn its like someone pissed em all off :lol

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Originally Posted by T Park

Damn its like someone pissed em all off :lol

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The championship was strangely unsatisfying last year. It was wonderful, obviously, but they played a C-level team in the championship and never got to face the Mavs. They also collectively know this is their shot at a back-to-back. Let's get it done.

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The championship was strangely unsatisfying last year

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Yeah its as if they have the attitude of "That was too easy"

Nobody got a seriously debilitating injury or fatigue over the summer. All the key players were brought back and are more comfortable with the system and each other than ever. The new guys aren't afraid or overwhelmed. This could be a very special season.

The team look good for the moment but we haven't played against top teams. The hardest game was a b2b on the road against Memphis and Spurs almost lost this game.
I will wait to see how Spurs play against top teams to judge what is their curnet level.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Tim shooting FT's good and the Spurs starting 3-0 are horrible omens for the Spurs.

In the 2000-2001 season the Spurs started the season 3-0 and Duncan had his finest FT shooting season when he shot @80% from the FT line...

In the playoffs that year, the Spurs were swept in the WCF by the largest average margin of defeat in WCF history.

Scary.

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Countervailing good omen -- there's no rival team in the middle of a three-peat like in '01. The Spurs main rivals are proven underachievers in the playoffs.

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The team look good for the moment but we haven't played against top teams. The hardest game was a b2b on the road against Memphis and Spurs almost lost this game.
I will wait to see how Spurs play against top teams to judge what is their curnet level.

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Good team, home opener, tough matchups, very good coach.

They should have lost that game, but Ginobili, Duncan, Parker willed them to win.

Thats been pretty much the story since about the first round of the playoffs.

My take from the two games i watched is that the Spurs are out-scoring teams even though they aren't playing Spurs defense, except for Bowen. This 14-man roster is IMO the deepest the Spurs have ever had. Ime Udoka is the 5th option at the SF/SG position, and he would be a starter for many NBA teams.
The strategy of having a lot of veterans (Barry, Finley, Horry, Oberto) who are great players, but not capable of playing 35 mpg, is perfect for this team.

Right, the defense really isn't there from any player not named Duncan or Bowen -- but that is kind of par for the course to start the season. They really seem to be hammering the point of ball movement on offense to the point of occasional overpassing, but the unselfishness that generates is well worth it down the line.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Last night after the game was over, the team went to lift weights right afterward, instead of going home immediately because they have the day off today.

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Now that is fucking BALLA right there! I had to do that once and it was incredibly hard.

I am REALLY REALLY optimistic about the Spurs this season, all clyinders are running pretty hard and no one is looking less than sharp. Plus, the starters are getting the same amount of minutes as previous seasons so they should be fresh for the PO's. (/Premature Ejaculation Forum)

I agree that the team has the potential and the ability to repeat, but really it's very early to be so excited. With the schedule they had, wouldn't all of us have been disappointed if they weren't 3-0 right now? They've played 3 teams who didn't make the playoffs last year and in the first two games, their defense wasn't good at all.

Yesterday the defense improved, but the team got sloppy with the ball too, and the outside shooting wasn't that great. They've got a lot of room for improvement, for sure.

Let's see where they're at after the Houston game on Tuesday and that Dallas/Houston back-to-back later on in the month.

yeah, no one should get too excited right now, as Houston will be our first real test.

Having said that, I am loving the living shit out of Udoka right now

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Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

yeah, no one should get too excited right now, as Houston will be our first real test.

Having said that, I am loving the living shit out of Udoka right now

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Maybe you can talk some sense into this bitch.

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yeah, no one should get too excited right now, as Houston will be our first real test.

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OOOO scary HOUStON!!!

Pffft.

Make it the playoffs and the Spurs walk.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/7766...1E7EC1A351FC8B

Ian's hook.

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Originally Posted by T Park

OOOO scary HOUStON!!!

Pffft.

Make it the playoffs and the Spurs walk.

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uhhh, I never said we should be "scared" of Houston, I just felt that they were a good team to measure up with.

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uhhh, I never said we should be "scared" of Houston

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Your implication that they are a measuring stick is overrating them.

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Originally Posted by PM5K

So who gets in the dog house first?

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I'll bet Pop gave the starters hell about their shooting percentages. They are expected to do better. In fact, the whole team didn't shoot very well.

Ian is L-O-N-G... the Houston game should be a good test but its early, were not playing Spurs defense yet so i wouldnt be surprised or that disappointed if we dont get the W

:lol @ Spur fans not knowing what to do with 3-0.

We need a bad loss or two to put everyone back in their comfort zone.

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@ Spur fans not knowing what to do with 3-0.

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:lol

Yeah its like they are hopin for somethin to happen so they can ask to fire pop again.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Right, the defense really isn't there from any player not named Duncan or Bowen -- but that is kind of par for the course to start the season. They really seem to be hammering the point of ball movement on offense to the point of occasional overpassing, but the unselfishness that generates is well worth it down the line.

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I even thought Timmy's on-ball defense isn't quite there yet - but his help defense is right where it always is at the top of the league.

Those 19 TOs probably made Pop happy, he has something to rag about for the next practice.

Rockets have not yet gelled. They are averaging 16.5 turnovers a game. Yao is missing some passes and the team as a whole hasn't yet figured out Adelman's offense. It'll take a full year for them to really get it. So I would not be suprised if the Rockets get blown out against a veteran Spurs team. They have shown flashes of what they could be when T-Mac scored 47 pts and they crushed the Jazz but they looked really bad against the Blazers and Lakers.

I've been pronouncing Ian's first name like Ian Fleming. I didn't know his first name was pronounced "Yawn" like Jan Stenerud. I guess that's what I get for not watching local San Antonio news.

lol i think its just Yahn not YAWN haha