Cavs To Waive Nichols?

This guy seems pretty popular around here...my question is if we could, should we take a flyer on him, or is it more realistic that he wont get any playing time & we should keep our roster at 14 in case of a trade?


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CLEVELAND - Will Demetris Nichols wind up being the one that got away from the Knicks?

Yes, according to the former Syracuse star, who was cut by the Knicks last week and picked up by the Cavaliers earlier this week.

"I'm not showing it right now, but I have a lot of fire in me," said Nichols, who was on the inactive list for Friday's game. "I know when I do get my chance, you're definitely going to remember my name."


Nichols, a second-round pick by Portland, was acquired by the Knicks on draft night with the intention of sending him to Europe for a year to develop while they retained his rights. But he had no interest in going overseas and the Knicks had no room on their veteran-laden roster for another rookie.

Nichols, who saw very little time in preseason games, asked the Knicks several times to release him so he could try out with another NBA team. But the Knicks held on to him until the final week of camp. "They could have released me earlier," Nichols said.

He said he still has respect for Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, but some disappointment was evident in his voice. "I could have been that guy that can make a difference," Nichols said, "but I guess he saw differently. Whatever."

Though the Cavs desperately need offensive help on their weak bench, this might not be Nichols' final stop. GM Danny Ferry still is negotiating with holdout Anderson Varejao; once he's signed, they'll need to waive a player to fit him in the 15-man roster.

I think Nichols has the potential to become a prolific scorer, but haven't heard much about his D. If he gets waived I wouldn't mind seeing the Spurs use that 15th roster spot to see what he can do.

Last I heard, the Cavs and Sideshow Bob were millions apart...per year. I'm not thinking this will be resolved any time soon.

I don't think a trade is very likely at this point. Granted we're just 3 games into the season, but barring an injury - who would we want to pick up? A young wing is the only thing I can think of, so skipping the middle man and signing Demtrius Nichols makes sense to me. I'm sure the Spurs scouted him pretty thoroughly so if they don't at least try to sign him that probably means they don't like what they see.

It would be nice to have him on the team though. Training up a young center, PG, and wing while having one of the deepest teams would be nice.

Varejao won't get his dream contract no doubt about it. He's gonna either have to go back to Europe or accept the Cavs' offer.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Last I heard, the Cavs and Sideshow Bob were millions apart...per year. I'm not thinking this will be resolved any time soon.

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Sideshow Bob will cave in shortly, like Pavlovic just did...he will realize that he will NEVER get a $50-60 mil. contract & he will have to settle for something like a 3 year $5-6 mil per deal...which means they will have to make room & the two most likely to go will be Nichols & Shannon Brown(the Cavs didn't pick up his option).

Our team is starting to shape up quite well for the future now. With installments of youth in the post (Splitter, Mahinmi, Bonner) and at the point (Washington) we look formidable moving forward. However, the average age on the wings is not promising down the line. Finley and Barry will most likely be gone at the end of the season. While we will retain Ginobili, Bowen and Udoka we are losing two of our most prolific shooters.

So, while we might argue Nichols' defensive capabilities, I tend to think that they don't matter as much as we attest. Nichols can shoot, and that is what we need to replace is shooting. Finley is not a good defender, and Barry is horrible. If Nichols is better than either of these players then his defensive ability is probably adequate. If hes better....then we do quite well indeed. But what matters is his shooting. We will need it to space the floor for Duncan and to keep defenses honest; daring them to either double off of our players (leaving them open for wide open 3 pointers usually) or take Duncan one on one. Pick your poison.

So if Nichols can shoot lights out (as I've heard he does but cannot personally comment on) and plays defense better than your average Phoenix Sun then I say sign him up.

Addngn Nichols as the 15th would be a definite plus to give him a whirl. My understanding is that he'd push us over the lux tax.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Addngn Nichols as the 15th would be a definite plus to give him a whirl. My understanding is that he'd push us over the lux tax.

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The way I look at it is this: the guy probably signed a non-guaranteed contract. If he is waived then we simply pick him up on waivers and give him a look. If we give it the old college try and he sucks then we waive him in a few months and save cash. But if we think he could be worth keeping and worth the lux tax then we pay it. But if the guy could fill a need down the line then hes probably worth a couple extra mil this season. While he will cost us some extra jack this year, his cheap contract will likely save us money next year.

Of course, if we bring him in and he sucks then we need to cut our ties. And if the front office already thinks that he'll suck then I defer to their judgement in the manner. But from the scouting reports he looks to be a solid prospect.

I think Nichols is a little too one-dimensional for the Spurs to think about busting the tax threshold again for a guy like him at this point. 23 teams passed him up on the waiver wire before the Cavs, and the Cavs were desperate. Maybe Utah was hoping he'd fall to them, but I don't think anyone else had the room or the inclination. Nichols might have to prove himself in the D-League if he gets waived again.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I think Nichols is a little too one-dimensional for the Spurs to think about busting the tax threshold again for a guy like him at this point. 23 teams passed him up on the waiver wire before the Cavs, and the Cavs were desperate. Maybe Utah was hoping he'd fall to them, but I don't think anyone else had the room or the inclination. Nichols might have to prove himself in the D-League if he gets waived again.

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While I'd like to find a nice wing prospect to allocate to that 15th spot, I also like the flexibility its vacancy affords us. With an obvious interest in the D-League going forward we are positioned nicely to pluck out the rising stars of that system. Considering this team has 4 undrafted players in the rotation (2 of which are starting) it not only seems plausible but downright likely. It fits our work-man culture like a glove.

If the front office thinks Nichols is a quality prospect that fits our specific needs then I think we should scoop him up regardless of the lux tax implications. But if they don't think so highly of him and would rather bide their time and wait for a standout D-League player then I can wait as well. The way Chump tells it we might have one in Austin already in Justin Bowen.

So do your thing front office. I won't get upset...at least not until march or april if we still haven't filled the spot. :smokin

I don't have great illusions that Nichols is the answer but if he didn't cost the luxury tax, it'd be worth a short look. But Chump is right - he literally does nothing else in terms of stats other than hit shots.

He's also said some dumb things about getting cut by New York. 'I'll make them pay' kinds of stuff. Son, it's a business and so far you're nobody. No one owes you a damn thing.

Well, if anyone comes up on the D-League radar, the Spurs will be all over it. They are very keen to make the Toros work for them. They've pretty much tripled Austin's basketball operations personnel, and you can bet they were behind the rule change that allowed teams to put waived second rounders on their D-League affiliates.

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They've pretty much tripled Austin's basketball operations personnel

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Too bad they didn't buy the team two years ago and could've had Aubuike onto the team.

D League graduate who dropped 31 last night :oops

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Originally Posted by T Park

Too bad they didn't buy the team two years ago and could've had Aubuike onto the team.

D League graduate who dropped 31 last night :oops

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33 actually.

FG: 12-17
3pt: 2-3
FT: 7-7
Pts: 33
Rbd: 8
Asst: 2
Stl: 1
Blk: 1

And his name is Kelenna Azubuike

Spurs can claim Nichols from waivers and stay under the tax threshold. Nichols has signed as a draft pick with Knicks and if you claim him from waivers he is still considered as a draft pick signing and cost less against the luxury tax than a free agent signing.

That must be right.

Still don't see it happening though.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That must be right.

Still don't see it happening though.

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Yeah. Doesn't seem to fit. Just a shooter - we got those - and this attitude thing. Too bad Knicks didn't draft Dom McGuire and then cut him instead.

I don't mind guys with chips on their shoulders. I guess the big question is whether the Spurs think he is trainable to be something other than just a shooter. Obviously they think Pittsnogle could be, but they are paying him like $20,000 -- not $400,000. They did pass on Nichols once -- it would be interesting to know who their choice if Williams hadn't been on the board.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I don't mind guys with chips on their shoulders. I guess the big question is whether the Spurs think he is trainable to be something other than just a shooter. Obviously they think Pittsnogle could be, but they are paying him like $20,000 -- not $400,000. They did pass on Nichols once -- it would be interesting to know who their choice if Williams hadn't been on the board.

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Probably like Mustafa Shakur. Lute Olsen: "Oh, him? Yeah, um, he's also really great..."

If he's not good enough to make the New York freakin' Knicks, I sure as hell don't like his chances here.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic

If he's not good enough to make the New York freakin' Knicks, I sure as hell don't like his chances here.

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NY had like 20 people on their roster before making cuts, more than 15 of them were on guaranteed money..Nichols did not have a guaranteed contract, he was not owed any money, it was a no brainer to cut him for NY.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Probably like Mustafa Shakur. Lute Olsen: "Oh, him? Yeah, um, he's also really great..."

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Well, he just got cut too. Of course, he was cut so that they could claim Beno Udrih...so that doesn't look so worthwhile. :rolleyes

Hes probobly better than Beno, Sacramento is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Well, he just got cut too. Of course, he was cut so that they could claim Beno Udrih...so that doesn't look so worthwhile. :rolleyes

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Exactly, my point there. If Williams wasn't available, they probably would have drafted another player who didn't work out.

After watching Daequan Cook lead the Heat in scoring last night as a rookie who just turned 20-years-old, some of my faith is restored in the Spurs' domestic scouting. Cook was the Spurs' number one target in the draft, with Splitter being number two.

A guy that young scoring 17 points in his NBA debut is pretty impressive ... even if his team is pretty bad at this point.

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Originally Posted by timvp

After watching Daequan Cook lead the Heat in scoring last night as a rookie who just turned 20-years-old, some of my faith is restored in the Spurs' domestic scouting. Cook was the Spurs' number one target in the draft, with Splitter being number two.

A guy that young scoring 17 points in his NBA debut is pretty impressive ... even if his team is pretty bad at this point.

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Good point. I remember being skeptical of the Spurs having Cook so high on their draft board. They're obviously the professionals and not myself.

I still think I'm glad we got Splitter though. Quality bigs are always harder to find, and Tiago looks pretty special. Plus, who knows how much better he might get after a year as "the man" with Tau? The preliminary results have been pretty nice.

Yeah, kudos to Cook. Color me surprised his debut was among the best of the rookies. I'm very happy with Splitter. It was just that #33 pick that was awful. Still not clear who'll be the best 2nd rounders. All have started slow.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Yeah, kudos to Cook. Color me surprised his debut was among the best of the rookies. I'm very happy with Splitter. It was just that #33 pick that was awful. Still not clear who'll be the best 2nd rounders. All have started slow.

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Based on what I saw in summer league and what the Spurs need, my re-do pick would probably be Dominic McGuire. But yeah, too early to tell which second round picks are worth anything.

I'd pick Dominic McGuire, too. Awesome rebounding and shot-blocking ability and he was a primary playmaker on his team last year. Can anyone say 'long three'? Yeah. For some reason we went for 'long two' instead. Make that 'longshot two'.

Zeke may be terrible when it comes to running a team and handing out contracts, but he seems to have a pretty good eye for young domestic talent (or his scouts do, anyway). The fact that the Knicks waived Nichols says less to me than the fact that they drafted him in the first place.

correction: I just remembered he was drafted originally by Portland, but I don't know if that was prearranged with NY or not.

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Originally Posted by ThomasGranger

Zeke may be terrible when it comes to running a team and handing out contracts, but he seems to have a pretty good eye for young domestic talent (or his scouts do, anyway). The fact that the Knicks waived Nichols says less to me than the fact that they drafted him in the first place.

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Agree as a general principle. Isiah drafts extremely well.

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Originally Posted by Big P

NY had like 20 people on their roster before making cuts, more than 15 of them were on guaranteed money..Nichols did not have a guaranteed contract, he was not owed any money, it was a no brainer to cut him for NY.

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The fact that those others had guaranteed contracts is totally irrelevant. That just means that they'll get paid whether they're on the team or not. NY isn't going to keep an inferior player at the expense of a better one just because the inferior player's contract is guaranteed (sunk cost). If Nichols had been one of the 15 best players, he would have made the team. Period.

Im not sure...one part of me says he can become that long 3 who can knock down the three and play servicable defense... he has the tools to do so

Height w/o shoes -6'6.5"
Height w/shoes -6'7.5"
Weight - 211
Max Vert - 32.5"
Lane agility - 10.39

He tested NUMBER 1 in the lan agility test at the pre draft camp, he beat out all the point guards and smaller guys, thats basically a test lateral movement. He has a standing reach which is just 1.5" shorter than that of Joakim Noah whos a 7 footer... and despite being shorter, his standing reach is better than that of Domini Mcguire. A running vert of 32.5" for a 6'8" guy is pretty good also... he was one of the best athletes in the draft.

He has all the physical tools to become a good defensive player, theres half the battle without the fight.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic

The fact that those others had guaranteed contracts is totally irrelevant. That just means that they'll get paid whether they're on the team or not. NY isn't going to keep an inferior player at the expense of a better one just because the inferior player's contract is guaranteed (sunk cost). If Nichols had been one of the 15 best players, he would have made the team. Period.

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Look at the contracts & the players they had...

Marbury
Randolph
Curry
Richardson
Crawford
Rose
James
Jefferies
Robinson
Balkman
Jones
Chandler
Lee
Collins
Morris

All of these guys make over $1 million dollars or they are the young guys that NY likes...like Morris, Lee, Collins & Chandler...Nichols was competing with jefferies, Richardson, Jones all of which make multi million dollars...NY was not going to buy any of those guys out...Nichols had a non guaranteed contract which unfortunately for him caused him to get caught up in the numbers game...How is NY going to know if he is a better player?.. he is a rookie...going up against vets..I would think that they would need to keep him around for a while before they declared him a better player...sorry man, the NBA is a business & if they could get rid of a non guranteed instead of paying for someones buyout AND pay Nichols, thus saving them money..I understand why Nichols got cut.

Well the Knicks knew they had all these guaranteed contracts when they went out and traded for Nichols, so that pretty much debunks your entire theory. So "sorry man," but Nichols was cut because he ultimately wasn't good enough. It's that simple.

Next.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic

Well the Knicks knew they had all these guaranteed contracts when they went out and traded for Nichols, so that pretty much debunks your entire theory. So "sorry man," but Nichols was cut because he ultimately wasn't good enough. It's that simple.

Next.

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actually, if you want to believe the ny rumor mills, the knicks had an agreement with nichols' agent that he would go overseas for a year while the knicks worked out their roster issues. unfortunately for the knicks, nichols fired his agent, and decided that he wanted to play in the nba now, whether or not it was with the knicks. so he forced them to make a decision: either make room for him now, or cut him loose and allow him to find a job on another roster.

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Originally Posted by ss1986v2

actually, if you want to believe the ny rumor mills, the knicks had an agreement with nichols' agent that he would go overseas for a year while the knicks worked out their roster issues. unfortunately for the knicks, nichols fired his agent, and decided that he wanted to play in the nba now, whether or not it was with the knicks. so he forced them to make a decision: either make room for him now, or cut him loose and allow him to find a job on another roster.

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lol..owned.

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Originally Posted by ss1986v2

actually, if you want to believe the ny rumor mills, the knicks had an agreement with nichols' agent that he would go overseas for a year while the knicks worked out their roster issues. unfortunately for the knicks, nichols fired his agent, and decided that he wanted to play in the nba now, whether or not it was with the knicks. so he forced them to make a decision: either make room for him now, or cut him loose and allow him to find a job on another roster.

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I forgot about that. So it sounds like the Knicks were fairly high on this guy but just couldn't get it done in the end. I feel fairly strongly that I'd trust the Knicks' domestic scouts before the Spurs' (given an extensive history of nabbing draft steals). So maybe we should give Nichols a hard look, huh? Especially considering we'd be able to stay under the cap while doing so.

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Originally Posted by mystargtr34

Im not sure...one part of me says he can become that long 3 who can knock down the three and play servicable defense... he has the tools to do so

Height w/o shoes -6'6.5"
Height w/shoes -6'7.5"
Weight - 211
Max Vert - 32.5"
Lane agility - 10.39

He tested NUMBER 1 in the lan agility test at the pre draft camp, he beat out all the point guards and smaller guys, thats basically a test lateral movement. He has a standing reach which is just 1.5" shorter than that of Joakim Noah whos a 7 footer... and despite being shorter, his standing reach is better than that of Domini Mcguire. A running vert of 32.5" for a 6'8" guy is pretty good also... he was one of the best athletes in the draft.

He has all the physical tools to become a good defensive player, theres half the battle without the fight.

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I was all for Nichols as the 33rd pick for exactly those reasons. The guy is a natural shooter, he's long, and I thought he had the abilities to be a good defender. Then I saw his lane agility result...wow. The talent is definitely there.

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Originally Posted by BradLohaus

I was all for Nichols as the 33rd pick for exactly those reasons. The guy is a natural shooter, he's long, and I thought he had the abilities to be a good defender. Then I saw his lane agility result...wow. The talent is definitely there.

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Indeed, and if he gets cut by 2 teams in a row, I can see him having a little humility too. The only drawback is NBDL access. IIRC, Bruno said that you can only have 2 Players from the team on the NBDL roster at a time... Signing Nichols would give us a bit of a roster crunch with Mahinmi, Nichols, and Washington.

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Originally Posted by pad300

Indeed, and if he gets cut by 2 teams in a row, I can see him having a little humility too. The only drawback is NBDL access. IIRC, Bruno said that you can only have 2 Players from the team on the NBDL roster at a time... Signing Nichols would give us a bit of a roster crunch with Mahinmi, Nichols, and Washington.

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Judging by the way the Toros drafted this year (they took something like 5 PGs) I don't think they're really vouching on having Washington around anyways.

The Toros are only going to keep two point guards, and half of the ones drafted could play SG in the D-League.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The Toros are only going to keep two point guards, and half of the ones drafted could play SG in the D-League.

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Still, my point is simply that they don't look like a team that thinks they have a solid PG in the bag. They're shopping around looking for a couple productive points.

I take that as sign that they will send Washington down eventually, but I can see how the opposite could be surmised.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I take that as sign that they will send Washington down eventually

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How do you figure? I'm just honestly not sure why you see that? What am I overlooking here?

As well as Washington has played, he is far from perfect. He has already been excluded from the rotation once and his minutes will remain sporatic and will dwindle to nothing when Vaghn gets back. If our regular point guards are healthy, there isn't much reason to have Washington playing 0 mintes per game when he could be playing 35 minutes per game for a month or so in Austin.

There is also the argument that none of the point guards the Toros are getting are near as good as Washington, and that relying solely on those guys could hamper the development of guys like Mahinmi, Williams and Pittsnogle.

And because they play fewer games that are mostly scheduled on the weekends, D-League teams also practice a whole lot more than NBA teams. That's another advantage to sending Washington down.

Pittsnoggle!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Pittsnoggle!

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Yeah, you'd think he'd have a pretty sweet nickname at this point.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yeah, you'd think he'd have a pretty sweet nickname at this point.

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Well, he's already there in NCAA lore. One of the great runs in the last decade. I mean, "You've been Pittsnoggled!"

Cavs are looking to move Shannon Brown. It's far from sure that Nichols will be gone when they will sign Varejao.

Bump.

Nichols waived. It's actually pretty surprising because they were expected to waive Shannon Brown. But yesterday Brown started and played well so I guess that was enough to keep him.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Good point. I remember being skeptical of the Spurs having Cook so high on their draft board. They're obviously the professionals and not myself.

I still think I'm glad we got Splitter though. Quality bigs are always harder to find, and Tiago looks pretty special. Plus, who knows how much better he might get after a year as "the man" with Tau? The preliminary results have been pretty nice.

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How is Splitter doing?

Interesting. Is there a link?

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/va...ls_071205.html

Unfortuantely I think he would put us over the lux tax threshold...I believe we are only a couple of hundred thousand under it..it would be awsome to give him a shot though.

The toros can sign him and have this starting line up: DWash, Nichols,Williams,Bowen, Mahinmi...Langford has played well but will never make it on the NBA level and Johnson's NBA days are in the past..

Wow. Almost one month exactly that this was being discussed. Good job.

Wonder how his attitude is doing. He was pretty snotty after being waived by the Knicks, vowing to 'show them' or something, and the rest of the league. A guy who has shown nothing deserves to be knocked down a peg or two.

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Originally Posted by Big P

Unfortuantely I think he would put us over the lux tax threshold...I believe we are only a couple of hundred thousand under it..it would be awsome to give him a shot though.

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I recently read that the Spurs were only $30,000 below the threshold.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I recently read that the Spurs were only $30,000 below the threshold.

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2007 Spurs' Salary

If you reduce Spanoulis' buyout to zero, which was widely assumed, and then plug in the Vaughn's vet min number that counts against the cap (I can't remember it at the moment, if someone can help me out, it's around $700,000), does that give us enough space to absorb a second-round min contract if he's claimed off waivers?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

With Spurs being that close of the luxury tax, they won't sign a 15th player. Even a 10 days contract will put them over the tax. If Spurs do a trade or waive Washington they will have the financial flexibility to sign someone else. However I don't see Spurs waiving Washington after what he has done with Spurs during the training camp and the start of the regular season and if he continues to play well in D-League. I don't see Spurs doing a trade unless there is a big weakness in the team or Spurs have a great opportunity. The only thing Spurs could maybe do is to sign someone something like two days before the playoffs but it seems very unlikely. Barring a surprise, Spurs will be one more year without a long SF.

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Unless we're really high on somebody, I don't think it's happening.

Bulls Waive Gardner, Claim Demetris Nichols
December 7, 2007 - 5:23 pm
RealGM Staff Report -
The Chicago Bulls announced today that the team has waived guard Thomas Gardner. In a subsequent move, the team also announced that it has picked up forward Demetris Nichols on waivers.

Gardner (6-5, 225), an undrafted rookie out of the University of Missouri, appeared in four games with the Bulls this season and averaged 5.3 ppg (9-23 FG) and 1.0 rpg in 11.3 mpg. He shot .391 from the field and .250 from behind the arc. Gardner signed with Chicago prior to training camp on Oct. 1.

Nichols (6-8, 215) comes to Chicago after spending time with New York and Cleveland earlier this season. In three games this year, he has scored two points and grabbed one rebound in 14 minutes. Originally selected by Portland in the second round (53rd selection) of NBA Draft 2007, Nichols enjoyed a four-year collegiate career at Syracuse where he averaged 10.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg and 1.1 apg.

Nichols will join the team tomorrow when the Bulls host the Boston Celtics . With his signing, Chicago’s roster now stands at 15.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...etris_nichols/

Damn.

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Originally Posted by ElliottFan

Damn.

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Whoa, pretty quick on the draw there.

I feel pretty bad for this guy now. Drafted by Portland, traded to the Knicks. Went to training camp with the Knicks and waived shortly before the season. Picked up by the Cavs and spent the first 20 or so games with them. Waived again...and picked up by a struggling Bulls team that are already loaded at the guard spots.

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Whoa, pretty quick on the draw there.

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What?

The Bulls really needed another fifth small forward, didn't they?

Could be the prelude to a trade.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I feel pretty bad for this guy now. Drafted by Portland, traded to the Knicks. Went to training camp with the Knicks and waived shortly before the season. Picked up by the Cavs and spent the first 20 or so games with them. Waived again...and picked up by a struggling Bulls team that are already loaded at the guard spots.

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He's still getting paid, so I don't feel too bad for him.

time to trade Scola for Nocioni.

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Originally Posted by ElliottFan

What?

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You just posted a response to my article in like 15 seconds. Very fast.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The Bulls really needed another fifth small forward, didn't they?

Could be the prelude to a trade.

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Sefolasha? Nocioni?

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

You just posted a response to my article in like 15 seconds. Very fast.

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Lol oh ok. I thought you meant I was like overreacting to the transaction.