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http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7381424
It is interesting to see a media figure come out and say this. I always thought that the calls in that series vs. Dallas were very different than what was called in the Finals, and in other playoff series that year. The tone of the officiating was almost pre-season (call anything) rather than playoffs (physical play encouraged)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Khan
We all know about 2006. It was an illusion...even for the Mavs. One second it's here, the next it's not. Truth be told, I'm still kinda pissed.
I've never been one to bitch about officiating. However I did find the officiating in that series to be atrocious for both teams. The problem was the bad calls that went against the Spurs seemed to occur during very crucial times of the game. Calls that seemingly turned the tide and changed momentum. That WCSF series was so close it didn't deserve or need poor officiating.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
Funny how the Mavs and their fans never said a word about officiating until the Finals versus the Heat.
The officiating was bad, but, once again, and the point is hard to hammer.
I love Manu, thats his style, but if he lays off Nowitzki, they play FT trade off, and win the game.
He doesn't foul Dirk there, they win. Simple as that.
When you're right, you're right. Without that bonehead play, Spurs WIN!Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
To this day, that play is PAINFUL for me to watch.
Why Manu? Why?
Is very simple if you only take that fact. Remember that Tim fail the last shot and the Mavs won in Over Time.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Forget it :flag:
Well you know, i know its hard for you guys to believe that Ginobili did something wrong, but that was his fault.
Good lord you guys are too sensitive.
That series was BS. There were bad calls both ways, but the way Dirk was going to the free throw line 20+ times a game was ridiculous. And then in the Finals all the sudden he wasn't getting to the line at all, and Wade was going 20+ times. Nobody wants to see someone shoot 25 free throws in a game.
It is hard as a fan that spends (too much) time following the NBA, and at the same time I do believe that the NBA officiating is terrible, and quite possibly influenced by Mob gambling more than we want to admit. And Stern does not seem concerned. No other sport has such questionable officiating. Going back to Jordan's time, there has been serious bitching in nearly every season. Shaq's 2000-2002 Lakers, the 2004 debacle, the 2006 Spurs/Mavs and Heat/Mavs series, in 2007 the Donaghy scandal. And now that we know that at least one NBA official was influencing games to cover bets, it is no longer a "conspiracy theory." It is a FACT that at least some games have been influenced.
Of course was his fault, but not the last play of the game. :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by T Park
You know, we have one more ring.. get over it! :downspin:
I'd still like to see how that series would have ended had Duncan not fouled out of Game 3 and Manu fouled out of Game 4. I still think it's pretty convenient that the Spurs go-to guy in both of those games gets fouled out with a few minutes to go.
Well, when the officials tried to punish Manu with traveling when he tried to pass the ball to Duncan, who was sleeping in their own court at the time, then Manu tried to protect the ball from a meter without even touching it and a whistle was blown anyways for "traveling", then you know what was the predisposition of those officials, don't you?
I always wonder what would've happened if it was tony parker who fouled Dirk instead of Manu in that game 7.
it was just a bit easier to swallow with it being manu because of the huge 3 pointer he had hit on the previous play. he won, then lost the game for us in a span of seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper
All the "almosts" and "coulda beens" don't matter now...the Spurs have one goal, and one goal only...to REPEAT as NBA CHAMPIONS and cement their place in history as one of the NBAs greatest dynasties. I firmly believe they will do just that. :toast
i dont' see the point of complaining about officials calls two seasons ago (or ten minutes ago for that matter). it's time to move on.
Spurs vs. Mavericks in 2006 is easily the hardest defeat I've ever had to stomach as a Spurs fan. Houston in 1995, Lakers in 2001 and Lakers in 2004 were all bad but Mavericks in 2006 was the worst.
That game 3, when Dirk stepped on TD foot and Crawford called the 6th on TD was a joke.
Refs were awful in that series
The only reason people talk about the Spurs needing to repeat to be considered one of the NBA dynasties is because the media puts that kind of spin on it. I'm sure most NBA players would love to trade places with Duncan rather than LeBron, Dwyane Wade or even Kobe. Sure some guys love to be on SportsCenter but it's the rings that put you in the history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaDude
I think the Spurs not repeating as champions, but continuing to win championships in spite of that is a big accomplishment. Many teams would win a championship, fail to defend it, and then try to rebuild or tool their team to beat the team that eliminated them. You could say the Spurs did that between the 1999 and 2003 titles, but you see a lot of people right now trying to copy the Phoenix Suns (mostly b/c there aren't enough quality big men to go around for everyone to emulate Duncan, Shaq, or KG). In this era the Spurs have continued to play defense and not focus solely on offense. And in the process, they've beaten the Phoenix Suns and all of their imitators at their own game.
Also, Duncan is nowhere near done. He isn't putting up the numbers he put up early in his career now, but that's because he doesn't have to. Look at the talent and depth around him. In the early years of his career, he had a bunch of past-their-prime role players on the team that made contributions, but Duncan had to put the team on his shoulders. Those guys were great for leadership, and even though Duncan was much more mature than most rookies, coming into that kind of team environment set him on the right track for the career he's had so far. He's the best example of a superstar making his teammates better. He's the MVP who doesn't have to fill out the stat sheet every night as long as his team fills out the boxscore and gets the win.
So I don't buy this talk that the Spurs aren't a dynasty because they haven't repeated. If they fail to repeat this year, there's a good chance they'll be back in 2009. But if they do repeat, behind all of the grind-it-out defensive games they play en route to it, behind the low ratings in the NBA Finals and all the criticism they receive for being "boring" or "dirty," there won't be anyone left who can say this team isn't one of the greatest NBA teams to ever set foot on the hardwood.
I agree with that and maintain that the officiating did not cost the Spurs either game -- the Spurs needed to execute better (early in Game 3, for example) to win, and didn't. I also agree with timvp that the Spurs loss in that series was a harder pill to swallow than even losing a series on Fisher's ridiculous shot in 2004 -- it's the most bitter loss I think I'll ever experience as a Spurs fan because the result so easily could have been entirely different. (That series will also probably be the best playoff series I'll ever see; though I do hope for one like it that the Spurs actually win).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McNulla
With that said, the one call from that series that still baffles me is the technical foul called on Finley in the first half of Game 4. Finley and Nowitzki get incidentally tangled up after a free throw, Bavetta hangs a T on Fin, the Mavs convert the free throw, and the Spurs lose in overtime. The league later rescinded the technical on Finley. The unwarranted free throw obviously proved huge in that game (and, to and extent, the rest of the series). I'm marginally surprised that Spurs fans focus more on Footgate involving Timmy and Dirk than on the Game 4 technical.
In the end, the Spurs lost the series because the Mavericks were just ever-so-slightly better when it mattered most. That's true irrespective of the officiating.
If Duncan plays that OT, they win.
He was absolutely OWNING the Mavericks that day.
There were 2 OT games (Game 4 and Game 7) and Duncan played in OT of both games. He fouled out of Game 3, which the Spurs lost in regulation by a point, IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
He absolutely owned the Mavericks for the entire series....Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Yes, we had a chance to win Game 3 on a miracle buzzer beater thanks to Stackhouse intentionally bricking a FT (resulted in a TO to us), and Horry got rim but it didn't go in. Manu fouled out of Game 4 and didn't play in OT, when we were abused by the speed of the Mavs guards. Manu's speed and defense would have definitely helped there.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Eh, that loss still hurts, that loss was the worst I've ever experienced.
Make up for it this year, what the hell, why not.
I don't know, watching the Mavs choke badly two years in a row and get another ring is pretty good medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Yeah the loss to Golden State was sweet, but knocking them out of the playoffs, going on and winning a ring, is what I need to cleanse the bad taste out of my mouth.
I was at Game 7, and it totally sickened me...
Yeah, the Terry jumping backwards into Manu foul. :lol Amazing when the most memorable moments of a series are the times the whistle blows.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.T.
Yes, it's painful to even think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
I think it's bogus to complain too much about the officiating in that series. In basketball, just like the game of life, you gotta focus on the things you can control.
The Spurs did that, and were in a position to win the game and series. And then...
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I'm with you 100% on that one. At least those loses to the Lakers were blowouts. For some reason those are always easier to stomach. I remember sitting there on my gf's couch for like 15 minutes in utter disbelief on what I had just witnessed. I went from rejoicing jubilantly after Finley's 3, to a complete letdown. I knew once the game went into OT we were doomed. We were just worn out at that point from clawing all the way back... :depressed is how I was for about 3 days.
Bah, there chokejobs in the finals and the ensuing playoff series makes me not care anymore. Championship teams don't go down 3-1 in a series and go down 20+ points in a game 7 at home. That's always how I saw it.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
If you think that was bad that year, wait until this year's playoffs.
Officiating is so inconsistent, as much as I like the moves Stern has made, he needs to GTFO and get someone in who is serious about having GOOD officiating. Enough is enough.
The most painful for me was 1979... Spurs Game 7 at Landover, MD against the Washington Bullets. Easily the worst officiated playoff game in NBA history. Let's see... the Billy Paultz moving screen... the James Silas offensive foul... :pctossQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Bill Walton, during one of his broadcasts from last season, stated that if the Spurs didn't complain about games 3 and 4 in Dallas from the '06 playoffs, the Spurs would never complain about bad calls.
He was complimenting the Spurs because they don't bitch to the press about bad calls like many players and coaches.
Make no mistake about it, Ginobili cost the Spurs that series. Worst play I can remember seeing. What was that guy thinking? Clearly he wasn't thinking at all.
I think even Manu would agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
True, but without Manu, the Spurs don't even come close to winning the title against the Pistons in '05.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
As to the '06 officiating, why has no one mentioned the real controversial call at the end of Game 6 -- the no call when Duncan got fouled on the attempted put back at the end of regulation. After the close foul call against Manu just seconds before? At home in Game 7?
Manu and Duncan actully were both fouled on that play by Dirk, Manu on the arm and Duncan over the back, but refs weren't going to call a play like that at the end of a game. Had it been with a couple of minutes to go odds are either would have been called.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I bet if the Spurs had been behind by 2 (like the Mavs were behind by 3 only seconds earlier), it would have been called. Because it was tied, the refs shrugged and let it go to overtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
If Manu had not commited that foul and just let Dirk get his 2 points the Spurs would have advanced. Besides that was 2 seasons ago. Who cares? I don't go on like some Suns fans about the Spurs/Suns series last year. It sucked losing like that but is a new season.
I give thanks for the Golden State Warriors in 2007 and the Miami Heat in 2006, as both dismantled Mavs championship hopes.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
In spite of their playoff meltdowns over the past two seasons, I've heard subtle comments from several Mavs players to the media that indicate the Mavs still feel as though they are "superior" to the Spurs in a 7-game series.
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that will be as sweet as the Spurs successfully defending their title this season will be when they take down the Mavs in a 7-game series rematch along the way. I want those bitches silenced for the 3rd straight year. :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
Let me guess Stackhose right?
Too many what ifs in the past, we'll sound like Suns fans.
Stackhouse and Howard, to be exact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amare_32
To me, their comments are akin to the proverbial "whistling as one passes the graveyard". They're worried, but they're trying to convince everyone around that they're not worried.
That 2006 series was to me the most bitter of any one, too. But I remember the Bullets/Spurs series, also. Those last two minutes in game seven were the most atrocious officiating that I've ever seen. Let me add to mikeanthony21's list - how about Wes Unseld's fouls against The Whopper (always loved that nickname since he looked like one) during that stretch? He flew off the court (literally)several times when he had established defensive position for the rebound on Unseld. Unseld shoved off to get the rebound and those rebounds gave the Bullet's had several more offensive posessions. No rebounds then we win that series, too. But the Bullets were a more physical team than the Spurs and in the end that was the difference in the series. Sound familar?
But this is all history. Now all I want is a repeat and to silence all the media critics who desperately want style to prevail over substance - "the Spurs are old, boring and dirty."
Well they can all bite me.
Yes, but we LOST to that non-championship team...Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Winning this last title was great...but every time I think about that series with Dallas, it makes me sick...I don't think I'll ever get over that one.
It's just a game, I know...but still... :depressed
Yep...and THAT pissed me off more than the Manu foul. Though his mistake was huge, not calling the foul that followed was the hardest to swallow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I didn't see the foul on Manu, but the one on Duncan on the putback is clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Also, not to beat dead horses, but on Dirk's game-tying drive a minute earlier, he obviously clears out Bruce with his off arm as he goes through the lane. Of course, stars in the NBA get away with that move every single game, but it's still crap.
Actually it was a hook on Bruce. I was PO'd for a long time but the fact that the Mavs then got ripped off by the refs and Heat helps ease the pain and put the universe back in balance. The Mavs may taste the bitterness of their on lost chance forever. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ManuTastic
I hate complaining about the refs, so I just believe that the Mavs got what they deserved in the finals, and in the first round last year. It's like Karma came back and bit them in the ass.
It's a shame some Spurs fans are not as classy as their own players.
Its a shame Mavs owner, players and coach aren't as classy as the Spurs players too.Quote:
Originally Posted by And1Mak
I'm with you with the owner, but players and coach?Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
:rolleyes
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eyLn5M8c2GwQuote:
Originally Posted by And1Mak
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You guys are pathetic. 4 championships in 9 years and you bitch about the refs and concern yourselves with the Mavs. And even more hilarious is the insane bias present in any assertion that "The Mavs got all the calls" . I seem to remember TD going to the line every time he was breathed on. Spurs would have lost in 5 if not for that nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
Cue obligatory "but but but but TD is a low post player and is naturally going to be fouled more often than Dirk". Wrong. They're both superstars and they're both going to get fouled a hell of a lot. Of course, every FT Duncan shoots is earned, but every FT Dirk shoots is a gift. Right? :rolleyes
The fact that you'd even make this post (and the fact that so many people would respond) is pathetic. Never have I seen such a successful, amazing team with (some) fans that have such an incredible inferiority complex.
I think you missed a salient point. If you bothered to read other portions of the thread, I stated earlier the calls during the WCSF were atrocious - for both teams. It just seemed the timing of the calls against the Spurs had a direct impact on key possessions. Some of these bogus calls resulted in lost minutes because guys like Manu and Tim were fouled out seemingly unnecessarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by DubMcDub
Ultimately the onus is on the players to adjust when there is bad officiating. It's just unfortunate the game cannot be simply won/lost on the merits of the both teams - not the officials.
It's funny that no one on the Mavs team or coaching staff had any complaints against officiating until the Miami series.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=59vXUjiHRkoQuote:
Originally Posted by ElliottFan
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MLgHeeOZJFI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=drPQkEsM8uM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UynFKOdfxXc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hYC95MziMJk
And what about the coach?
If he is unclassy now, he wasn't when he helped the Spurs win a title?
:lmao The only decent video there was the Ray Allen kick. Every other video has very bad quality. And Horry gave Nash a little hip check which did not need a huge flop from Nash.Quote:
Originally Posted by And1Mak
And Avery Johnson is the only person on the Mavs that I truly respect.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Dub, but I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dub
Manu DID NOT lose that game for us. It's more accurate to say that if not for Manu,we would have been blown out. How can anyone say he LOST that game for us ? We lost in overtime. We lost when we let Dallas jump out to a huge lead in the first place. He committed a bad play late in the game. That's it.
Imo... Manu fucked up on that play, but... the only reason we were so close to win it on the first place was Manu himself. I remenber all sucking and only Manu saving our asses.
Given the choice, i would always take what Manu gives, the bad and the good, since its usually good.
lmao at people who pretend to stand above the fray.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
It's only cool when it dates back to 70s playoff games against the Bullets or maybe 80s no look Strickland passes. :rolleyes
Yeah I agree. While it was a bonehead play, it was Manu. How can you get mad at a guy who has done SO much for our team. Now what if it had been Beno that commited that foul if for whatever crazy reason was playing? I guess he and Pop would still be in Witness Protection. Beno for commiting the foul, and Pop for having him in the game.