Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Mavs - Nov. 15

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat

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Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

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Never say never.

AJ preps his crew too much for the regular season. Not surprising, because AJ's always been the competitor. Plus he almost has to because I perceive that Cuban is probably the worst owner in the league at needling his coaching staff after every game.

The season is 100+ games long if you seek a title. Maybe AJ will figure that out sooner or later.

Nice analysis. I agree with all of it. Too bad I wasted my time watching our pathetic effort.

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Originally Posted by timvp

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

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I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

That Harris comment does raise some eyebrows...

I think the Spurs came out lethargic and didn't take the ball inside enough to start the game.

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Originally Posted by Deimosfobos

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

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The Spurs always want Parker to keep penetrating, shooting and trying to score. That's their game plan. When Parker was 1-6, Pop would have gone wild if he didn't keep trying to score. :lol

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Originally Posted by Deimosfobos

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

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No, he did stop shooting at one point and was overly passive. He started attacking more towards the end but by then it was too late.

I wish the Spurs would take it to the rim more when their shots aren't falling. Settling for jumpers killed us.

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Originally Posted by Deimosfobos

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

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Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.

Horry might give Dirk some trouble. Horry is strong/agile even at the age of 107 to stay with Dirk. How did Bowen do playing against Dirk in the '06 PO's?

Although Dirk only scored 17 points, he had lots of help. Mavs won't shoot this high percentage everytime they play the Spurs and the Spurs won't play shitty ass defense and Tony won't go 1-11 everytime when they play the Mavs. Bruce won't puss out on D and Tim won't play passive every time they play the Mavs.

I'm just gonna say that this is the most horrible I've seen the Spurs as a whole play during this season.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.

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if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.

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Eh, not really. Parker got up five shots early he usually makes. He missed two open jumpers, missed a shot in the lane and got blocked twice. Harris defends him well but Parker took himself out of this game.

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.

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Pop might've brought Manu in a little earlier with the starters not doing so hot at attacking the rim.

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Originally Posted by E20

Horry might give Dirk some trouble. Horry is strong/agile even at the age of 107 to stay with Dirk. How did Bowen do playing against Dirk in the '06 PO's?

Although Dirk only scored 17 points, he had lots of help. Mavs won't shoot this high percentage everytime they play the Spurs and the Spurs won't play shitty ass defense and Tony won't go 1-11 everytime when they play the Mavs. Bruce won't puss out on D and Tim won't play passive every time they play the Mavs.

I'm just gonna say that this is the most horrible I've seen the Spurs as a whole play during this season.

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I thought the same thing during that series in 06. For some reason those jerks ALWAYS seem to light it up against us. ALWAYS!! Why I don;t know... :rolleyes

The 1st half was also a fucking nightmare. So many times we turned the ball over doing the same thing over and over again. Bad passes, bad triple threat stance, bad dribbling/decisions. Not gonna happen again.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

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Great analysis as usual.

This is my concern too. No need to hit panic buttons but I don't feel the Spurs have made any adjustments to counter Dallas. They still make the same msitakes.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.

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Im not great looking for old info, and i'm a bit tired, but i do remenber manu taking less than 10 shoots many times when he wasn't fealing "hot". If im not wrong, after his 48pts against the suns a while back, i think he only took like 6 shoot since he said he didn't felt good. I may be wrong... but there are examples.

Many here say he should keep doing it since spurs depend on him atacking in one way or another... i just don't agree. That's all.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Eh, not really. Parker got up five shots early he usually makes. He missed two open jumpers, missed a shot in the lane and got blocked twice. Harris defends him well but Parker took himself out of this game.

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I guess we'll find out on Dec 5. I thought Harris did as good a job on Tony as I've seen anyone do in a long time. Let's face it, Tony is dangerous because he is lightning quick, well so is Harris here. Tony's shooting is decent, but his killer drives are his niche. Ofcourse, everyone knows this, I'm just saying

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Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters

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These teams have met so much over the past and are so familiar with each other, what is really being held back? The Mavs probably wanted it more tonight and shot the hell out of the ball.

Parker played like he was hung over or didn't get enough sleep last night.

His body language, everything about him...that was not the same Tony Parker who's showed up in most games this season.



If he was sick...he needs to not go out to eat in Dallas anymore or something...I remember he got sick a few years ago in Dallas too.



Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.

I forgot about the bad blood between Barry and Stackhouse from 3 years ago...I was instantly reminded of it once I saw Barry being asked to guard him.


Barry should be the designated Stack defendee for the rest of the season...he doesn't like Stack, and Stack doesn't like him...that matchup works in our favor.


Fucking Bonner sucked ass...I'm with Sequ on the Bonner sucks wagon. I've seen enough of what he's got now...he doesn't have the ability to impact a big game in a meaningful way...kick this fucker to the curb, I don't give a fuck if he's a nice guy or makes a great hustle play once every 5 games. He does not have it...I don't want him in the game when it matters...ever. And don't insult Malik Rose by saying he's Malik with a 3 shot either...


Replace Robert Horry my fucking ass.




And save Finley a seat on that bus.....


Finley lacks the ability to make any other player better....if his shot is falling he can outscore his man in spurts or carry the Spurs offensively for a brief period...and that's all he's got.




Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...those guys are the keys.

We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...but we can make sure we don't leave those fuckers open 15 times a game...and make them play D.

A loss like this is clearly a huge investment for the post season. Wins for the Mavs like this expose their capabilities.

Post-game, we'd probably see them reviewing game footage to see just where AJ focuses.

Sure, the team had an off night. But if Pop really wanted the win he'd have played every play in his book tonight. But clearly that wasn't the case.

instead of focusing on what went wrong, why not focus on where Dallas is weak? They'll be charged, playing with confidence, bringing their A game to show that the Spurs aren't the be-all and end-all. surely Pop can find just where their weaknesses lie. Give them every chance to show their capabilities and we'll see their limits.

even if we only win 1 against them in the regular season doesn't mean that they'll be facing the same team later in the playoffs. Our main concern in the regular season is not to win the division title, but to find ways to beat everybody else in the playoffs while clinching a spot. Doesn't matter what spot just as long as we get in. And with careful planning, why not pick a nice spot facing teams we can clearly eliminate with less than maximum effort?

and while we're playing other teams (aside from Dallas, Houston, Boston, Detroit, etc..) in the regular season, we can tweak our lineups and get our new guys acquianted with the system.

now that's CIA planning.

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Parker played like he was hung over or didn't get enough sleep last night.

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Something was definitely up. One of the commentators talked about a knee and his lack of explosion could be due to that knee tendinitis that flairs up every now and then for him.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.

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Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago :lol

Barry was arguably the worst player for the Spurs in that series and that was a mere year and a half ago.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Barry should be the designated Stack defendee

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I've never seen the word "Barry" and "defender" in the same sentence. Well, to be truthful, I still haven't.

If by defendee you mean that you want Stackhouse to guard Barry, I may actually see your point there.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Fucking Bonner sucked ass...I'm with Sequ on the Bonner sucks wagon. I've seen enough of what he's got now...he doesn't have the ability to impact a big game in a meaningful way...kick this fucker to the curb, I don't give a fuck if he's a nice guy or makes a great hustle play once every 5 games. He does not have it...I don't want him in the game when it matters...ever. And don't insult Malik Rose by saying he's Malik with a 3 shot either...

Replace Robert Horry my fucking ass.

And save Finley a seat on that bus.....

Finley lacks the ability to make any other player better....if his shot is falling he can outscore his man in spurts or carry the Spurs offensively for a brief period...and that's all he's got.

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whottt hating on Bonner and Finley. I'm shocked.

:sleep

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Originally Posted by whottt

Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...

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:huh

Did you watch the Warriors series? You beat the Mavs by bodying up Dirk and turning him into a woman. The problem is the Spurs don't have the player who can body up on Dirk, therefore it leaves other players open.

I love it how ALWAYS when Whottt posts, moments later Timvp quotes Whottts sentence by sentence and counter arugues Whottt and then Whottt comes back quoting Timvp's sentences and counter aruges. Then repeat this 50 times and the thread blows up to 50 pages. :lol

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Originally Posted by timvp

Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago :lol

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False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously.


Bottom line...if Barry ever pussed out like Bonner did tonight I'd never hear the end of it...apologize to Brent Barry...or call Bonner out for being a pussy.


Fuck...this motherfucker making 3 mil a season or something to play basketball and defend a championship he did jack shit to earn...


I don't ever want to see Pop having to play nursemaid to a guy who just pussed out taking it to the hoop.

GTFO.

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Barry was arguably the worst player for the Spurs in that series and that was a mere year and a half ago.

I've never seen the word "Barry" and "defender" in the same sentence. Well, to be truthful, I still haven't.

If by defendee you mean that you want Stackhouse to guard Barry, I may actually see your point there.

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Stack house made exactly one shot against Barry tonight...go back and watch. Be sure to wear your glasses.

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whottt hating on Bonner and Finley. I'm shocked.

:sleep



:huh

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Timvp giving his hustler/heart guys a free pass to choke ass...I'm not shocked.

I was glad to see Danny Ferry and Terry Porter go...and I'll be glad when it happens to Finley and Bonner too.

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Did you watch the Warriors series? You beat the Mavs by bodying up Dirk and turning him into a woman. The problem is the Spurs don't have the player who can body up on Dirk, therefore it leaves other players open.

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That's how the Warriors beat the Mavs...that's not how we do it, because we really can't. The Warriors have like 35 guys on their roster with the perfect physical tools to stop Dirk...we don't.

FWIW, Pop did throw more looks at Dirk tonight than usual and it was effective...but the bottom line is we have to stop Stack and Terry...they are the ones that kill us.

Its like watching The War of the Roses all over again... except I don't know which one is Michael Douglas and which one is Katherine Turner..

The Mavs played a hell of a game. They shot the ball extremely well and were more agressive. When you make your open looks and also make a good amount of contested looks you will probably win. Spurs need to bring more energy and effort on D than they did tonight against this team.

I agree with all that was said. Hard game to watch, tough pill to swallow.

The Spurs better hope and pray they dont have to see us in a 7 game series. We still are matchup hell for them. They cant stop us and they still ALWAYS have to come from behind against the Mavs. Cant wait till our next meeting in the American Airlines AT&T Center. Dirk plays the Spurs better in that barn! GOD I LOVE THESE GUYS! :elephant :elephant :elephant :clap :clap :clap

Good analysis, but I would disagree with you on one point. I don't think switching Barry and Finley's roles on the team would accomplish anything but make us worse in the first four minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters.

I much prefer Barry playing with the other scrubs when Manu is out there as opposed to Finley. We saw last year what happened when Barry was starting for the Spurs.

Initially it worked and Manu was quite productive with the 2nd unit as teams weren't used to him coming off the bench. But eventually they adjusted, and trapped him relentlessly, getting the ball out of his hands because nobody else out there was much of a dribbler or outside threat. Switching Finley to a starter and Barry to a sub solved that problem somewhat. Barry is more of a respected 3 point threat and playmaker than Finley so defenses were less likely to force the ball out of Manu's hands.

Besides, Fin doesn't do to much damage, on most nights. This was just an extreme example. It's not like we're going to say Tony Parker sucks because he had one awful game. As long as Finley plays 16 minutes or so, the first 8 of each half, letting him play with the starters where Tim and Tony are there to handle the offensive load and Tim and Bruce are there for defense, Finley can't be too much of a liability. Really, starting him is the only way we can hide him, outside of dropping him out of the rotation entirely. We just couldn't hide him today because the team got into such an early hole with the turnovers and Tony's struggles.

I'll just add a couple of things to timvp's excellent observations.

The Mavs were much more physical than the Spurs, particularly in the first half.

Devin Harris' active hands basically ripped the game away from the Spurs in the first quarter.

Josh Howard took the baseline that the Spurs gave him and he beat the help to the cup with authority. In the first half, he had gone to the FT line more than the whole Spurs team. Undercover Brother was a key man and he was cashing checks before the Spurs could stop payment.

Fouls in the first half Spurs 22 - Mavs 7...who was the aggressor?

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Originally Posted by whottt

Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago

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Originally Posted by whottt

False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously.

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:lol

What is false? That May of 2006 wasn't three years ago? Three years ago Barry had never even faced the Mavs as a member of the Spurs.

Barry started multiple games in that series, including Game 4 in which he played 38 minutes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006

Or are you going to argue that those 38 minutes weren't important minutes?

You usually are in some fantasy world when it comes to Barry but this is a new low for you. Even last year, Barry averaged over 20 minutes per game against the Mavericks.

So now not only does Barry only play point guard when whottt watches games, Barry also hasn't ever played an important minute against the Mavs in his Spurs career.

:dizzy

Terry was killing us tonight. I was having flashbacks of Vinnie Johnson the way he heated up out there. It's seems like he has less responsibilities with their second unit so all he focuses on is his offense and the occasional shot to the groin.

I don't see Terry keeping up his hot shooting for too long. He suffers from Mav-itis in disappearing from big games.

Let's just say the Spurs defense isn't what it usually is come playoff time. Devin Harris' dribble penetration and Terry's 3's killed us tonight.

Props to the Mavs...they brought it and finished.

So Parker had a horrible game. Let's hope there isn't something serious like an injury behind that. NBA players have more than 100 games per season, it's not a big deal if they have sometimes a way off game as long as it's not in the playoff.

Against Lakers, Duncan was crappy but against Dallas you can't have a member of the big three being really bad and still won, even more when you need a lot of scoring because the defense isn't good.

Anyway, this was a just a November game, but Spurs should be quitemotivated for the rockets game today : being 0-3 against Texas' teams and against other contenders sounds quite bad to start the season.

An optimal strategy for the Spurs in their mission to repeat might be to avoid a playoff series with their matchup nightmare, Dallas.

One effective way to accomplish that is to finish as the top seed in the conference. That, in turn, would likely lead to a Mavs/Suns playoff series, and, ceteris paribus, I don't believe the Mavs would win.

Of course, I'd love the Spurs to pummel and humiliate the Mavs in the playoffs, but I'd rather the Spurs repeat. So unless something changes in the Spurs/Mavs dynamic, the team from San Antonio would be well-advised to put a premium, atypically for them, on finishing with the best record in the conference.

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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Originally Posted by intlspurshk

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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Yeah, Barry really sucked major balls last night :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by intlspurshk

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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You mean like how Dallas looked against Warriors the other night? Every team has a matchup nightmare out there in the league. Ours is Dallas. The solution isn't to pack up and go home. The solution is to strategize and practice the strategy many times before you try out against your opponent (something they didn't do in 2006). And it definitely helps if you bring in at least some defensive effort and your point guard doesn't look like his wife sucked his energy out the night before.

thanx for the analysis TIMVP,since I couldn't watch the game last night I can have a pretty good idea of what happened by reading it.
Something that catched my eyes when I took a look at the boxscore were the Mavs Fastbreak points,They had 19 last night,plus they had 52 % from the fg vs a 42 % for the spurs.
I guess they just played better D. tham us,plain and simple, but still it´s just one lose on the road.Let's move on.

Spurs not being aggresive in the first half had a lot to do with Parker. He's really the engine of that starting unit. If he's playing aggressive, penetrating in the lane, getting easy buckets then the Spurs have ball movement and easier baskets. He wasn't doing that and the rest of the team followed suit. The ball seemed stagnant at times and they were forcing the issue at times.

Warriors are the Mavs as the Mavs are to the Spurs. Mavs are built to beat the Spurs and we haven't addressed any issues since 2006 it seems. Spurs did miss Robert Horry greatly I think in tonight's game.

And please Pop, get Michael Finley out of the starting lineup. If he can't make shots, then that leaves just Parker and Duncan as the offensive weapons in your starting lineup. That packs the lane and limits the drives to the basket and limits the Spurs ball movement and offense.

Props to Barry for showing up. I just think that putting him in the starting lineup is going to be counter productive. I like him coming off the bench with Ginobili, shooting 3's and opening the floor. I think Pop should just start Udoka...he can't be that much worse than Finley. At least this way, Udoka will get some quality playing time and experience under his belt.

And I agree about Bonner being a lost cause. For every one great rebound or shot he makes, he immediately has about 3-4 careless mistakes that make you scratch your head. Like that foul after the jump ball...was that really neccesary?

Well, we off to another typical Spur season :toast . Seventy something games to go. This note is to the new or unobservant fan.

Note: Spurs win games in cycles. On average, win 4 or 5 games in a row, lose 1. This cycle is repeated all season long :rolleyes . This is the way we roll. We are off to a good start this year. I think the Spurs will only lose 17 games this year. Only Time will tell. So, note to self. After we have won 4 or 5 games, expect the Spurs to lose 1. It doesn't matter who they are playing. Its a numbers thang:nope:oink . Sit back relax and enjoy. Its business as usual.

The officiating did not affect the outcome last night, but it was frustrating as hell. (The Mavs outplayed the Spurs, but the margin of victory was influenced by the refs.) The Spurs fell into the trap of complaining instead of playing mad. Oberto was the only Spur giving consistent effort, but he was largely ineffective. At least Purdue won last night...

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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You seem to be the only person who sees what I see. Everytime the Spurs closed the gap they tried a double-team and got burned by a wide open three point shot or a drive because Popovich is too blind (or stupid) to see that he doesn't have the personnel that's quick enough to recover. I don't think Terry or Stackhouse had to put the ball on the floor the entire game to score their points. Just ONCE he should try playing man to man, stay at home on the shooters, and let the chips fall where they may.

Good summary.

My concerns with this most recent Mavs loss are actually the same as with every loss recent loss to this team. The same deficiencies keep cropping up.

Matchups:
Mavs match up so well and have so much offensive firepower that they seemingly are the only team to consistently shred the Spurs defense. Pop seems powerless in how to stop them. I trust Udoka will develop to a point this season where he can crack the rotation. I still believe he can help greatly. They need more out of Elson in this type of game. I still believe he can matchup better with Dirk than anyone on the team. I don't want to see him rotate off Dirk - ever.

Turnovers:
Mavs create a lot of transition opportunities by blocking shots, slapping at the ball and creating steals on the perimeter. Spurs need to take better care of the ball, reduce the turnovers, and concentrate on negating the transition advantage the Mavs have demonstrated.

Lack of penetration opportunites:
Mavs always do a good job of keeping Tony out of the lane. Devin Harris defends him as well or better than anyone in the league. Tony, Manu and whoever the backup PG is need to continue testing the lane and being aggressive. Making smart plays, taking good shots making plays for others off penetration.

Outside shooting:
Barry was huge. The points about Finley are dead on. No longer is he the type of player that can resort to other offensive options if his shot isn't falling. He's a jump shooter only and has been for the past 5-6 years. However seeing as how his abilities started a decline his last 2 years in Dallas, no one should be surprised at his inconsistency. This was precisely what concerned me when he arrived. As a result, he becomes a liability at both ends. This team needs better outside shooting to keep defenders honest. If Finley continues his struggles, Pop needs to move him down the bench. The big three will continu doing their thing. Consistent shooting and scorig from the bench is what concerns me.

Lack of aggression:
Spurs always seem a step slow against this team. Slower to the ball, slower on defensive rotations. Spurs are normally very good at defending the 3-pt line - except against this team. The Mavs are not the kind of team you can cheat off their 3-pt shooters. Also, the Spurs usually get themselves into an early hole that they spend the entire game trying to dig themselves out of. Manu seems to be the only Spurs that consistently keeps attacking from start to finish. Sometimes this forces him to press a bit to make a play. However, I'll take that mindset any day.

As much as the Mavs question whether they can beat the Warriors, the Spurs must remember they have not solved the matchup issues versus the Mavs. It's a long season and while there is no need to panic, last night's game serves as a reminder of what a formidable foe the Mavs are for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Holt's Cat

Never say never.

AJ preps his crew too much for the regular season. Not surprising, because AJ's always been the competitor. Plus he almost has to because I perceive that Cuban is probably the worst owner in the league at needling his coaching staff after every game.

The season is 100+ games long if you seek a title. Maybe AJ will figure that out sooner or later.

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Obviously you haven't kept up with the Mavs much lately, as he has really changed that approach considerably.

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

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Originally Posted by stretch

You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

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Yes, that is true.

I still think the Spurs ought to try guarding the Mavs straight up in a regular season game just to see what would happen. I think you are correct, and it would get ugly. Still, it would be nice to know for sure.

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't feel the Spurs have made any adjustments to counter Dallas. They still make the same msitakes.

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True it's a matchup problem but the Spurs can win this game with who they have now.

It'd be a huge stretch to say that Finley lost this game for us but.............................
Finley lost this game for us. :lol
Not really but his shooting and D left us in a pretty big hole.

Bottom Line:The matchup problems the mavs present IS NOT what cost us this game. We don't need to pull an Avery and change our starting lineup to matchup.

We lost this game for 2 reasons, as far as I can tell:

1. This was the WORST defensive effort I have seen from our Spurs. Just absolutely ugly. For a stretch in the 3rd, we picked up the intensity, but by then the mavs were shooting lights out.

2. Tony Parker. This game made it crystal clear that TP is the leader of this team. As he goes, the team goes. For some reason, he had no drive/ focus/run.
\
The offense works right when Tony pushes the ball and gets us into the transition game. The Spurs had absolutely ZERO transition game. The mavs transition D wasn't anything great, so this was the strangest part of the game.

When the Spurs play the mavs you have to realize that Howard/Terry/Dirk will be a problem to slow down. But that wont beat us , as long as we push and play our game.

Tonight, the Spurs didn't play "their" game on offense OR defense.

That = blowout.
:sleep

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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I agree. Screw the notion of doubleteaming Dirk. Their outside shooters are too dangerous, I think you have to play them straight up - unless you're the Warriors, of course.

Two things: As I reflect on the game and what some fairly informed Spurs fans are saying, particularly on this one thread, I offer this: Avery DOES put a tremendous amount of emphasis on winning every game, on being sky-high for every game. To him, every game is a playoff game. He is demanding and will scream at you if your effort is less than 200%. If not, Cuban will have his ass up against a wall. The Mavs played that way. They looked (for the entire game) as if this was the Western finals. The coaches on the bench looked it, the players played like it, the fans, the entire atmosphere kept oozing out of my TV 2000 miles away.

Enter the calm and collected Spurs. After all, they are the champions, 4 out of the past 8 years, and 2 of those misses could have gone the other way easily. Of course they are calm and collected! If anyone knew what date and time it was, it was Pop and the Spurs. The contrast was apparent, again, from 2000 miles away. I saw our coaches on the bench, Pop, the players. They were concernerd with how things were going. It was apparent on their faces. But I've seen those same looks each of the past 8 years. Panic was not a part of those looks I saw.

My guess (aka opinion) is that come playoff time, the Mavs will be "spent" with a tank running on less than full. In the NBA of today, playing in May and June with less than a full tank may be enough to continue playing the "wait till next year game, as the Mavs have played for two seasons. They say three's a charm.

We'll see.

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You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

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Isn't this primarily what the Spurs have spent the last 2 years structuring their team for-- the match-up with Dallas--why they replaced Nazr and Rasho with Elson and Bonner. Doesn't seem to be have been all that effective of a strategy and now they match up poorly with Houston, as well.

Yawn.....its November.

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Originally Posted by Solid D

I'll just add a couple of things to timvp's excellent observations.

The Mavs were much more physical than the Spurs, particularly in the first half.

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This is the main thing I noticed and definitely the influence of Avery and Mario (whom I have not seen mentioned) on the Mavs. I was so surprised to see Spurs fans in the game thread and elsewhere griping that the Mavs were getting away with being too physical- that used to be the Spurs calling card.

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Originally Posted by lebomb

Yawn.....its November.

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Pop was yawning last night, too...yup, it's November...Spurs are still 7-2...no worries...

My 10 thoughts after attending last nights game:

1. It's all about the Matchups. The Mavs were constructed in part to beat the Spurs. 2 years ago they reached their goal and they continue to do so still.

2. Speed Kills. Harris has too much speed for Tony Parker. If Harris shot is falling and he continues to dish off well in the lane then Parker is in trouble.

3. Josh Howard has developed his all around game and the Spurs don't have an answer for him.

4. Dirk has learned that when teams run a 2nd defender at him to pass the ball quickly. Then the next pass is the killer because it will likely be to an open player like Jet or Stack. If they are on then it's tough to stop.

5. Ginobli is a terrific all around player. Dallas had no real answer for him. If not for him the Spurs would have lost by 25. He or Terry will win 6th man.

6. The Spurs fans that surrounded me at the game last night were great. They wore their Spurs Jersey's and cheered hard. They did not curse, they did not act a fool. And in the end they accepted defeat without excuses. They were good fans adn i respect that!

7. The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.

8. You guys should probably play Barry more and Finley less. Fin sucked his last 2 years in Dallas and he sux more now.

9. Pop vs. Avery is one hell of a chess match.

10. The Spurs don't want to see the Mavs in the Post season just as the Mavs don't want to see Golden St. But as a Fan, the Mavs vs. Spurs is by far the best rivalry and best game the NBA has to offer. I hope the 2 teams can play for the WCF's. It's a shame they can't play against each other in the Finals.

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Originally Posted by timvp

:lol

What is false? That May of 2006 wasn't three years ago? Three years ago Barry had never even faced the Mavs as a member of the Spurs.

Barry started multiple games in that series, including Game 4 in which he played 38 minutes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006

Or are you going to argue that those 38 minutes weren't important minutes?

You usually are in some fantasy world when it comes to Barry but this is a new low for you. Even last year, Barry averaged over 20 minutes per game against the Mavericks.

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Worthless minutes...because that series was lopsided as hell, within the course of a game...the sooner you realize not all minutes are equal, the sooner you'll stop jocking moves and players that won't win us a title.

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So now not only does Barry only play point guard when whottt watches games, Barry also hasn't ever played an important minute against the Mavs in his Spurs career.

:dizzy

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I guess Manu doesn't know what's going on either...since he said Barry was doing it. And I quoted him...

Manu>timvp

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Originally Posted by SpurYank

Two things: As I reflect on the game and what some fairly informed Spurs fans are saying, particularly on this one thread, I offer this: Avery DOES put a tremendous amount of emphasis on winning every game, on being sky-high for every game. To him, every game is a playoff game. He is demanding and will scream at you if your effort is less than 200%. If not, Cuban will have his ass up against a wall. The Mavs played that way. They looked (for the entire game) as if this was the Western finals. The coaches on the bench looked it, the players played like it, the fans, the entire atmosphere kept oozing out of my TV 2000 miles away.

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You and I didn't watch the same game. The Spurs were certainly flat and lethargic, but the Mavs did not treat this as Game 7 of the Conference Finals. Their mantra since training camp has been all about pacing themselves and peaking at the right time.

And I like how Pop must certainly be holding something back, but Avery is pulling out all the stops. They were simply sharper and hit their shots. And I like the "fans and entire atmosphere oozed it" line. Did you not catch all those empty seats in the lower bowl?

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Originally Posted by 41times

The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.

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yeah, like what happened with the Cavs right? because everyone knows they beat us during regular season and that meant trouble for the Spurs...

I don't understand where the Mav fans get they own the Spurs during the playoffs. The Mavs were one idiotic foul from being eliminated! You didn't own that series, you survived it. Well deserved, but don't come here acting as if you have the Spurs playoff number because thats bullshit

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Originally Posted by timvp

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat

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I generally agree with you although I thought TD played harder today than how you saw it (maybe not 5th gear but at least the 3rd gear).

Here is how I saw the game. Josh and Devin really killed us tonight, not Nowitzki. Neither Bowen nor Parker could stay in front of Josh/Devin's penetration nor jumpers. And I thought TP was intimidated very early on by Diop/Dampier as he stopped trying to penetrate. Devin's defence on TP was also very critical as he harrassed TP into turnovers and aimless dribbling around.

On the positive note, I thought Bonner actually played Nowitzki quite well (you are right that Oberto is not the answer for Dirk). I also thought Elson played some very good defence on Dirk on couple of one-on-one matchups and I believe on one sequence, he was quick enough to strip the ball away from Dirk resulting in a turnover and a foul from Dirk as he dove to try to get the ball back as it rolled to Manu. I really thought Pop should have had Elson on Dirk lot more during the game so that we didn't have to constantly double up on Dirk, freeing up Jet and Josh for easy looks/jumpers.

Manu was also very effective and aggressive even if he had some untimely turnovers but at least he didn't quit nor stop competing like Parker.
I think it's games like this when the Spurs are not playing well and PG isn't making things happen that Duncan has to demand the ball and become much more aggressive in the low-post. He did that a few times and certainly got lot more touches/shots than recently but he probably should have taken 30 shots last night to try to get their bigs in foul trouble and also to collapse their defence for our 3 pt. shooters. Basically against a team like the Mavs, if TD isn't aggressive in the paint, we are going to have problems as they are too tough to penetrate by our perimeter players on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by timvp

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat

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PULEEZE stop your bitchin about Bonner. He is the ONLY Spur that was not a gross embarrassment last night. The Spurs overall sucked a big one and looked like a junior high school team.

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Originally Posted by Reggie Miller

The officiating did not affect the outcome last night, but it was frustrating as hell. (The Mavs outplayed the Spurs, but the margin of victory was influenced by the refs.) The Spurs fell into the trap of complaining instead of playing mad. Oberto was the only Spur giving consistent effort, but he was largely ineffective. At least Purdue won last night...

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I agree they were calling lot of ticky tack fouls on Spurs (although i have to day Mavs were definitely the aggressors, the margin of fouls was ridiculous) and Mavs were hacking and chopping & kicking without getting fouls called against them. There was one sequence where TP shot the ball and basically got hammered in the chops and fell down, TD grabbed the rebound off the rim i think and put it back in while also getting chopped down. TWO fouls and NO CALLS! very blatant as well. I simply don't understand how the refs can miss such obvious hack fouls when you have two spurs going down as they are trying to make a basket in the paint.

my thing is, if its a november game and we're going to sit our best guys down 12 with 3:30 left, then why not experiment more? why not try udoka and bowen together, washington on harris, playing dirk straight up, etc etc etc. it seemed like pop wanted to win, then backed off at the end.

i'm not one of the "sky is falling" types, and i think it was mainly a problem of us not playing our usual D, but i just dont understand what pop was looking for this game.

if dirk does go for 60 pts on 80% shooting, i fail to see how that is worse than letting them get hot from 3 and better position for offensive boards.

also, i think one of the keys for us to beat dallas is to get their bigs in foul trouble. there were plenty of times the refs swallowed their whistles last night, but we need the big 3, and oberto too, to just pound the ball inside and get diop and damp in foul trouble. those two are dumb, foul prone players and with them out we can win the rebounding and defense battle, which is the most important thing.

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Originally Posted by Sweetey

PULEEZE stop your bitchin about Bonner. He is the ONLY Spur that was not a gross embarrassment last night. The Spurs overall sucked a big one and looked like a junior high school team.

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you didn't watch the game did you?

Quit whining about the fucking calls. I noticed several times when Duncan grabbed Diop's hand when going for a rebound and pulled him back, and at least 4 or 5 obvious travels each on Manu and Parker.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Good summary.

My concerns with this most recent Mavs loss are actually the same as with every loss recent loss to this team. The same deficiencies keep cropping up.

Matchups:
Mavs match up so well and have so much offensive firepower that they seemingly are the only team to consistently shred the Spurs defense. Pop seems powerless in how to stop them. I trust Udoka will develop to a point this season where he can crack the rotation. I still believe he can help greatly. They need more out of Elson in this type of game. I still believe he can matchup better with Dirk than anyone on the team. I don't want to see him rotate off Dirk - ever.

Turnovers:
Mavs create a lot of transition opportunities by blocking shots, slapping at the ball and creating steals on the perimeter. Spurs need to take better care of the ball, reduce the turnovers, and concentrate on negating the transition advantage the Mavs have demonstrated.

Lack of penetration opportunites:
Mavs always do a good job of keeping Tony out of the lane. Devin Harris defends him as well or better than anyone in the league. Tony, Manu and whoever the backup PG is need to continue testing the lane and being aggressive. Making smart plays, taking good shots making plays for others off penetration.

Outside shooting:
Barry was huge. The points about Finley are dead on. No longer is he the type of player that can resort to other offensive options if his shot isn't falling. He's a jump shooter only and has been for the past 5-6 years. However seeing as how his abilities started a decline his last 2 years in Dallas, no one should be surprised at his inconsistency. This was precisely what concerned me when he arrived. As a result, he becomes a liability at both ends. This team needs better outside shooting to keep defenders honest. If Finley continues his struggles, Pop needs to move him down the bench. The big three will continu doing their thing. Consistent shooting and scorig from the bench is what concerns me.

Lack of aggression:
Spurs always seem a step slow against this team. Slower to the ball, slower on defensive rotations. Spurs are normally very good at defending the 3-pt line - except against this team. The Mavs are not the kind of team you can cheat off their 3-pt shooters. Also, the Spurs usually get themselves into an early hole that they spend the entire game trying to dig themselves out of. Manu seems to be the only Spurs that consistently keeps attacking from start to finish. Sometimes this forces him to press a bit to make a play. However, I'll take that mindset any day.

As much as the Mavs question whether they can beat the Warriors, the Spurs must remember they have not solved the matchup issues versus the Mavs. It's a long season and while there is no need to panic, last night's game serves as a reminder of what a formidable foe the Mavs are for the Spurs.

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VERY VERY good post. I also believe that Elson should be on Dirk all the time. He is quick enough. He just has to become more active with his hands (like Bowen ScissorsHand) and he can harass Dirk. I also think Elson can take Dirk one on one and beat him off the dribble!! I saw Elson whip by Dirk with a dribble penetration (literally ran right aorund Dirk) and go to the hoop (unfortunately he missed but that is a play they should try to use more -- isolation of Elson against Dirk).

Udoka also needs to get more playing time....especially against a team like Mavs to try to contain Josh and Stackhouse and Terry. These guys are too strong and fast for Finley, Barry or even Bowen and we want to save Manu for offence, not waste all his energy chasing after these perimeter sharp shooters.

I also thought Bonner was very active and brought lot of energy and did a decent job of harrassing Dirk.

Darius probably should have been given more playing time as TP was basically totally frustrated and stopped competing on both ends. I sincerely hope he does not wilt like this in key games. He seems to great in blowouts or against weaker teams but seem to dissappear or play poorly against the better teams like Mavs. Harris is a big matchup problem. I am not sure TP can guard Harris. Harris is actually faster than TP and taller/stronger with longer arms and he really exposed TP's weak defence.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Quit whining about the fucking calls. I noticed several times when Duncan grabbed Diop's hand when going for a rebound and pulled him back, and at least 4 or 5 obvious travels each on Manu and Parker.

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Did you notice Parker taking an elbow to the throat....



I've got no problem if they don't call fouls...as long as they call it the same way for both teams. They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.


Mavs are not a better defensive team than the Spurs, not now, not ever....the fact that the Spurs all of a sudden become a bunch of foul prone douche bags and the Mavs turn into the Spurs defensively....is definitely ref induced.


Just call it the same way for both teams...


Spurs were getting kicked in the balls and elbowed in the throat, hacked on the dribble...not a whistle was blown....if the Spurs even looked crossways at the Mavs it was a foul.



Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

Your owner(no not Don Nelson) has devoted his entire tenure as owner to doing just that.


That makes you...a huge douche for even thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining.


Don't sit here and think you can be some kind of macho fan who never bitches about calls and can look down on those who do...if you were that kind of fan...you wouldn't be a Mav fan in the first place.


FO.

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They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.

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And they let whomever was guarding Dirk to try and crawl inside him like he was a tauntaun carcass.

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Just call it the same way for both team...

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Agreed.

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Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

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Guilt by Association. Nice Logic.

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Originally Posted by Findog

And they let whomever was guarding Dirk to try and crawl inside him like he was a tauntaun carcass.






Agreed.



Guilt by Association. Nice Logic.

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That's right you stupid bitch...because unless I first see you with a bigass tatoo on your forehead saying Mark Cuban is a disgusting ref whining bitch, as a qualifying statement before any other words exit from that fucking gashole you call a mouth...I am going to assume you are hypocritical POS without an ounce of credibility...just spewing more gas. A big ole fart...if you will.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...those guys are the keys.

We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...but we can make sure we don't leave those fuckers open 15 times a game...and make them play D.

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My thoughts exactly. We have to give the Mavs the Suns's treatment. Let Amare get his, and worry about the others.
We have to deny Dallas role players, let Dirk have his.
It surprises me Pop hasn't tried that yet.

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Originally Posted by whottt

bitch ass bitch fucking shit

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They've made wonderful advances when it comes to treating Tourette's. You make spurscenter look like he's zonked out on Xanax.

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Originally Posted by Findog

blah blah blah blah blah :blah

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Did you notice Parker taking an elbow to the throat....

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Did you notice Parker just run into Howard with his eyes closed, hack the shit out of him for a steal, and get no call?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

I've got no problem if they don't call fouls...as long as they call it the same way for both teams. They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.

Mavs are not a better defensive team than the Spurs, not now, not ever....the fact that the Spurs all of a sudden become a bunch of foul prone douche bags and the Mavs turn into the Spurs defensively....is definitely ref induced.

Just call it the same way for both teams...

Spurs were getting kicked in the balls and elbowed in the throat, hacked on the dribble...not a whistle was blown....if the Spurs even looked crossways at the Mavs it was a foul.

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I don't complain about calls much at all, especially in a game that was evenly officiated. There were bad and missed calls both ways. I saw plenty of travels that could have been called on each of the big 3, and several ridiculous hacks and blocking fouls that were not called. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I ever thought that the Mavs are as good, or better defensively than the Spurs, but okay...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

Your owner(no not Don Nelson) has devoted his entire tenure as owner to doing just that.

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Fans of the team of Tim Duncan, have no room to call anyone out for bad calls, as he is the whiniest player in NBA history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

That makes you...a huge douche for even thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining.


Don't sit here and think you can be some kind of macho fan who never bitches about calls and can look down on those who do...if you were that kind of fan...you wouldn't be a Mav fan in the first place.


FO.

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You likewise are a huge douche for thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining. And if you weren't whining like an oversensitive little bitch like you are now, then you wouldn't be a Spur fan. Blow yourself, faggot.

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Originally Posted by telecomguy

VERY VERY good post. I also believe that Elson should be on Dirk all the time. He is quick enough. He just has to become more active with his hands (like Bowen ScissorsHand) and he can harass Dirk.

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Dirk could stop, defecate in Elson's mouth, and get back up to make a shot before Elson could even begin the thought process of what he needs to do to defend Dirk. Elson sucks balls.

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

yeah, like what happened with the Cavs right? because everyone knows they beat us during regular season and that meant trouble for the Spurs...

I don't understand where the Mav fans get they own the Spurs during the playoffs. The Mavs were one idiotic foul from being eliminated! You didn't own that series, you survived it. Well deserved, but don't come here acting as if you have the Spurs playoff number because thats bullshit

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First of all the Cavs havent beaten the Spurs 5 of the last 6 regular season.
Second, the Cavs did not beat you in a playoff series.

Look i tried to tell people here in Dallas that we did not want to draw Golden St. in the First round because of 2 years worth of history agaisnt them. Everyone kept on say, "just wait till the Playoffs" well I did and we got our Ass kicked.

So it's not only about beating the Spurs in the regular season and 1 playoff series, it is about the Matchups. The Mavs are the toughest Matchup for the Spurs in the League. Period.

Do you think any Spurs fan is worried about the Suns....Hell no, because they know you have beaten their Ass for 2 years. The Suns know they don't want to face you guys. Period. Their Matchups are horrible.

I like the Spurs. They are my 2nd favorite team. When the Mavs get eliminated i always cheer for them. So i follow them closely so i am not some idiot fan who only looks at the score. I have had Mavs season tickets for 7 years. I have seen every Mavs Spurs game here in Dallas in Person for 7 years plus several in San Antonio as well. I did not want to admit that our 2002 team needed changing after you guys eliminated us. But it was true.
So i don't care if you believe what i am saying or not.

But the Spurs do not want to play the Mavs in the Playoffs if they don't have to.

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Originally Posted by stretch

You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

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If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

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I don't think it's a "quick fix," but they need to try this at least once before the playoffs. I'm not nearly as sure that it would work for the best, but it's the one thing Pop hasn't done yet. If the Spurs are willing to concede a loss like last night, they should take the risk of Dirk torching them, which could very well happen.

As we've seen, trying something new in the postseason for the first time didn't work so hot against the Mavericks.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Did you notice Parker just run into Howard with his eyes closed, hack the shit out of him for a steal, and get no call?

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Not the same as getting hit in the throat and kicked in the balls. If you had any balls you'd understand that.

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I don't complain about calls much at all,

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but you damn sure complain about others doing it...while Mark Cuban owns your team. That makes you a fucking joke.

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especially in a game that was evenly officiated. There were bad and missed calls both ways. I saw plenty of travels that could have been called on each of the big 3, and several ridiculous hacks and blocking fouls that were not called. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I ever thought that the Mavs are as good, or better defensively than the Spurs, but okay...



Fans of the team of Tim Duncan, have no room to call anyone out for bad calls, as he is the whiniest player in NBA history.

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My my poor dumb MavFan...if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...


You'd know that Cuban is the undisputed King of whining...

He pioneered new ways of Ref whining to the joy of stupid Mav fan...it's really funny. Too bad you are a newbie to basketball, you'd save youself some embarrasment if you weren't...


You'd also realize what a fucking joke you are for attempting to call out anyone about anything concering the officiating.


There is no bigger ref whiner in the history of any sport anywhere...than Mark Cuban.


Anyone can whine about the officiating and not be called out by you, without you making a complete ass of yourself.


Never call anyone out about any officiating in any sport anywhere...that's the only way you can avoid being percived as stupid.


No one, anywhere, about anything, concering officiating. You forfeit the rigth to do that with any credibility the second you choose to root for the Mavs.

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You likewise are a huge douche for thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining. And if you weren't whining like an oversensitive little bitch like you are now, then you wouldn't be a Spur fan. Blow yourself, faggot.

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And you are just big ole smelly fart #2. Clueless...and stupid.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Worthless minutes...because that series was lopsided as hell, within the course of a game...the sooner you realize not all minutes are equal, the sooner you'll stop jocking moves and players that won't win us a title.

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The Dallas series was "lopsided as hell"? Did you watch any of those games? Only the second game was lopsided.

Barry played in a lot of the close fourth quarters and overtimes. In his 38 minute game, a good number of those minutes came in the fourth and overtime.

By whottt it's-Barry-so-I-become-crazy logic, the fourth quarter and overtime of Game 4 of the 2006 WCSF are worthless minutes that don't count because they weren't important. But November 5th in a game that the Spurs never trailed by less than 10 with Barry in the game, Barry played his first meaningful minutes against the Mavs of his Spurs career.

That's just ..... amazing.

:dizzy

To my mind, Finley should be replaced by Udoka in the starting line up. Udoka doesn't yet know the system, but now is the time to give him minutes to learn it. Finley just looks lousy on both ends.

Against the Mavs, the Spurs need more scoring. In the playoffs, I'd rather see Darius Washington than Vaughn. Washington needs more minutes so that he can be up to par in post season.

Finally, I wonder if the Spurs would consider offering the Cavs (who are now without a completely unproductive Larry Hughes) Barry and a 2nd round pick in a sign and trade for Sideshow Bob at the MLE for the remainder of the season. Varejao could defend Nowitski and provide rebounding, energy, high screens and defense. With Udoka in the fold, we could get along without Barry and would add a piece that could be invaluable in the Spring. Another player to consider is Trevor Ariza. Ariza is not playing in Orlando and has the length, vertical hops and athleticism to agitate Nowitski or slow down Jason Terry. Ariza also has an expiring deal so if it doesn't work out it doesn't cause long term problems. I'd be willing to give up a late first round pick for Ariza. He's as good as anyone we would draft at 28 anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by halfmavfangoajgovp

The Dallas series was "lopsided as hell"? Did you watch any of those games? Only the second game was lopsided.

Barry played in a lot of the close fourth quarters and overtimes. In his 38 minute game, a good number of those minutes came in the fourth and overtime.

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False.

Quote:

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By whottt it's-Barry-so-I-become-crazy logic, the fourth quarter and overtime of Game 4 of the 2006 WCSF are worthless minutes that don't count because they weren't important. But November 5th in a game that the Spurs never trailed by less than 10 with Barry in the game, Barry played his first meaningful minutes against the Mavs of his Spurs career.

That's just ..... amazing.

:dizzy

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What's amazing is how wrong you are when it comes to Barry...the Spurs most certainly did trail by more than 10 points with Barry in the game...and more importantly, Barry was the guy that got them to within 10...and most amazingly...Pop left him in. He hadn't done that since the 2005 regular season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

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The Spurs didn't double team Dirk all that often in the '06 playoffs. They're trying it now because GS exposed it as a weakness of the Mavs (just like literally every single team the Mavs have played this year is trying it).

Soon, there will come a point where neither doubling Dirk nor leaving him in single coverage will be a superior choice, because he's improving exponentially as a passer. It's just like Duncan--you can double him and deny him the shot, but that doesn't make him any less effective as a basketball player. It just makes him score less points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

What's amazing is how wrong you are when it comes to Barry...the Spurs most certainly did trail by more than 10 points with Barry in the game...and more importantly, Barry was the guy that got them to within 10...and most amazingly...Pop left him in. He hadn't done that since the 2005 regular season.

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Garbage minutes in a November blowout > 38 minutes in Game 4 of the WCSF

Got it. :tu

Maybe now you can go on a rant explaining how Barry played point guard last night so that's why his shot was going in. Come on, make up that PG BS like you usually do when Barry plays well.

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Originally Posted by whottt

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

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Originally Posted by Sourgrapettt

if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...

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I see your Larry Kenon and raise you one Jay Vincent, cuntmuffin.

And a fart fart here and a fart fart there, here a fart, there a fart, every where a Mavfan...

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Originally Posted by 41times

My 10 thoughts after attending last nights game:

1. It's all about the Matchups. The Mavs were constructed in part to beat the Spurs. 2 years ago they reached their goal and they continue to do so still.

2. Speed Kills. Harris has too much speed for Tony Parker. If Harris shot is falling and he continues to dish off well in the lane then Parker is in trouble.

3. Josh Howard has developed his all around game and the Spurs don't have an answer for him.

4. Dirk has learned that when teams run a 2nd defender at him to pass the ball quickly. Then the next pass is the killer because it will likely be to an open player like Jet or Stack. If they are on then it's tough to stop.

5. Ginobli is a terrific all around player. Dallas had no real answer for him. If not for him the Spurs would have lost by 25. He or Terry will win 6th man.

6. The Spurs fans that surrounded me at the game last night were great. They wore their Spurs Jersey's and cheered hard. They did not curse, they did not act a fool. And in the end they accepted defeat without excuses. They were good fans adn i respect that!

7. The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.

8. You guys should probably play Barry more and Finley less. Fin sucked his last 2 years in Dallas and he sux more now.

9. Pop vs. Avery is one hell of a chess match.

10. The Spurs don't want to see the Mavs in the Post season just as the Mavs don't want to see Golden St. But as a Fan, the Mavs vs. Spurs is by far the best rivalry and best game the NBA has to offer. I hope the 2 teams can play for the WCF's. It's a shame they can't play against each other in the Finals.

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Good thoughts from a Mav Fan's perspective... I may not agree with it all but most of it made sense.

I would remind you that the string of regular season victories the Mavs have against the Spurs also neglects the fact that:

Ginobili didn't play in the second half of a matchup in San Antonio (when he hurt his back diving for a ball) - the Mavs took advantage of his absence and won the game.

The other was the infamous Joey Crawford game.... 'nough said.

So the string is not as dominant as recent history would suggest.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Garbage minutes in a November blowout > 38 minutes in Game 4 of the WCSF

Got it. :tu

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It wasn't a blowout when Barry was in the game.

And of course I am not claiming this game was more meaningful than a playoff game...I'm saying the situation in which Barry was allowed to play was a more meaningful situation within the game.


Notice...Barry didn't get many minutes last night overall...what'd he play? 14 minutes?

But the situation in which he was allowed to remain in the game was different...and you saw his impact.


And you see me giving Pop credit for it...all minutes are not the same.

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Maybe now you can go on a rant explaining how Barry played point guard last night so that's why his shot was going in. Come on, make up that PG BS like you usually do when Barry plays well.

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Actually he was getting to initiate stuff...he wasn't just standing there waiting for the open 3...and even when he was, he was doing it on Duncan's side....and the Mavs don't like that...whether Barry's shot is falling, or not.

Meanwhile...I expect you are going to be busy trying to come up with excuses for Bonner's continuted butt clencing the second the game has any kind of intensity...and now he's added pouting, avoiding getting fouled at the hoop in one on one breakaway situations, and needing Pop to hold his hand in mid game, to his repetoirse of soft bitch manuevers...so I'll be classy enough to give you time to come up with ways of spinning his obvious choking tendencies...good luck.

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Originally Posted by whottt

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

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I wish there was an icon for having Brent Barry's cock in your mouth, that would be quite apt as well.

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

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Because other Mavs players are capable of creating for themselves, unlike the Suns. Terry, Harris, Howard, Stackhouse are all players capable of creating their own shot.

Sequ says Tony Parker (1-11, matador defense) is the best fucking player in the NBA.

whottt says this team goes as far as Brent Barry takes them.

Maybe you guys should lay off the peyote for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Sequ says Tony Parker (1-11, matador defense) is the best fucking player in the NBA.

whottt says this team goes as far as Brent Barry takes them.

Maybe you guys should lay off the peyote for a few months.

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This team will go as far as Parker will take them, especially with Duncan being the focal point of many teams' D.

Maybe you need to read or scroll instead of dispensing advice

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Originally Posted by stretch

Because other Mavs players are capable of creating for themselves, unlike the Suns. Terry, Harris, Howard, Stackhouse are all players capable of creating their own shot.

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Don't forget: who are the Spurs going to put on Nowitzki? I think Dirk alone could make you pay in that scenario as well. He's difficult to defend one on one when he gets the ball in the elbow, unless you throw a big body on him.

Still, I wish they'd at least try it. At least I would stop bitching about Pop being stubborn...

Well, I'm glad the insecure Mav Fan SpursTalk.com clusterfuck is starting to come back. I was concerned about them after their latest postseason debacle.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Not the same as getting hit in the throat and kicked in the balls. If you had any balls you'd understand that.

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A foul is a foul, motherfucker.

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Originally Posted by whottt

but you damn sure complain about others doing it...while Mark Cuban owns your team. That makes you a fucking joke.

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And you are complaining about calls with Tim Duncan being the all-time face of your franchise. Makes you a fucking joke too.

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Originally Posted by whottt

My my poor dumb MavFan...if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...

You'd know that Cuban is the undisputed King of whining...

He pioneered new ways of Ref whining to the joy of stupid Mav fan...it's really funny. Too bad you are a newbie to basketball, you'd save youself some embarrasment if you weren't...

You'd also realize what a fucking joke you are for attempting to call out anyone about anything concering the officiating.

There is no bigger ref whiner in the history of any sport anywhere...than Mark Cuban.

Anyone can whine about the officiating and not be called out by you, without you making a complete ass of yourself.

Never call anyone out about any officiating in any sport anywhere...that's the only way you can avoid being percived as stupid.

No one, anywhere, about anything, concering officiating. You forfeit the rigth to do that with any credibility the second you choose to root for the Mavs.

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I'm not sure what Mark Cuban has to do with me. I'm a Mavs fan. I root for the team. I'm not a Mark Cuban fan. Either way, with your absolutely retarded logic, who are you to call out someone for whining when Tim Duncan, the whiniest player in the NBA, is the face of your franchise, you hypocritical piece of shit?

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Originally Posted by whottt

And you are just big ole smelly fart #2. Clueless...and stupid.

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Now you sound like Nashfan, with your stupid fart and poop jokes. Pull your head out of your ass.

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Originally Posted by Holt's Cat

This team will go as far as Parker will take them, especially with Duncan being the focal point of many teams' D.

Maybe you need to read or scroll instead of dispensing advice

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Maybe you need to learn how to take a joke instead of taking things so literally. You can take the gun out of your mouth and step back from the ledge, it was one regular season loss.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Either way, with your absolutely retarded logic

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Logic is not whottt's strong suit. Should he ever succeed Buford, look for the Spurs to lock up Barry to a max deal.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Maybe you need to learn how to take a joke instead of taking things so literally. You can take the gun out of your mouth and step back from the ledge, it was one regular season loss.

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Maybe you need to learn how to tell a good joke.

Spurs fans don't sweat regular season losses. Title virgins do.