Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Mavs - Nov. 15

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Originally Posted by timvp

Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago :lol

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False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously.


Bottom line...if Barry ever pussed out like Bonner did tonight I'd never hear the end of it...apologize to Brent Barry...or call Bonner out for being a pussy.


Fuck...this motherfucker making 3 mil a season or something to play basketball and defend a championship he did jack shit to earn...


I don't ever want to see Pop having to play nursemaid to a guy who just pussed out taking it to the hoop.

GTFO.

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Barry was arguably the worst player for the Spurs in that series and that was a mere year and a half ago.

I've never seen the word "Barry" and "defender" in the same sentence. Well, to be truthful, I still haven't.

If by defendee you mean that you want Stackhouse to guard Barry, I may actually see your point there.

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Stack house made exactly one shot against Barry tonight...go back and watch. Be sure to wear your glasses.

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whottt hating on Bonner and Finley. I'm shocked.

:sleep



:huh

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Timvp giving his hustler/heart guys a free pass to choke ass...I'm not shocked.

I was glad to see Danny Ferry and Terry Porter go...and I'll be glad when it happens to Finley and Bonner too.

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Did you watch the Warriors series? You beat the Mavs by bodying up Dirk and turning him into a woman. The problem is the Spurs don't have the player who can body up on Dirk, therefore it leaves other players open.

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That's how the Warriors beat the Mavs...that's not how we do it, because we really can't. The Warriors have like 35 guys on their roster with the perfect physical tools to stop Dirk...we don't.

FWIW, Pop did throw more looks at Dirk tonight than usual and it was effective...but the bottom line is we have to stop Stack and Terry...they are the ones that kill us.

Its like watching The War of the Roses all over again... except I don't know which one is Michael Douglas and which one is Katherine Turner..

The Mavs played a hell of a game. They shot the ball extremely well and were more agressive. When you make your open looks and also make a good amount of contested looks you will probably win. Spurs need to bring more energy and effort on D than they did tonight against this team.

I agree with all that was said. Hard game to watch, tough pill to swallow.

The Spurs better hope and pray they dont have to see us in a 7 game series. We still are matchup hell for them. They cant stop us and they still ALWAYS have to come from behind against the Mavs. Cant wait till our next meeting in the American Airlines AT&T Center. Dirk plays the Spurs better in that barn! GOD I LOVE THESE GUYS! :elephant :elephant :elephant :clap :clap :clap

Good analysis, but I would disagree with you on one point. I don't think switching Barry and Finley's roles on the team would accomplish anything but make us worse in the first four minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters.

I much prefer Barry playing with the other scrubs when Manu is out there as opposed to Finley. We saw last year what happened when Barry was starting for the Spurs.

Initially it worked and Manu was quite productive with the 2nd unit as teams weren't used to him coming off the bench. But eventually they adjusted, and trapped him relentlessly, getting the ball out of his hands because nobody else out there was much of a dribbler or outside threat. Switching Finley to a starter and Barry to a sub solved that problem somewhat. Barry is more of a respected 3 point threat and playmaker than Finley so defenses were less likely to force the ball out of Manu's hands.

Besides, Fin doesn't do to much damage, on most nights. This was just an extreme example. It's not like we're going to say Tony Parker sucks because he had one awful game. As long as Finley plays 16 minutes or so, the first 8 of each half, letting him play with the starters where Tim and Tony are there to handle the offensive load and Tim and Bruce are there for defense, Finley can't be too much of a liability. Really, starting him is the only way we can hide him, outside of dropping him out of the rotation entirely. We just couldn't hide him today because the team got into such an early hole with the turnovers and Tony's struggles.

I'll just add a couple of things to timvp's excellent observations.

The Mavs were much more physical than the Spurs, particularly in the first half.

Devin Harris' active hands basically ripped the game away from the Spurs in the first quarter.

Josh Howard took the baseline that the Spurs gave him and he beat the help to the cup with authority. In the first half, he had gone to the FT line more than the whole Spurs team. Undercover Brother was a key man and he was cashing checks before the Spurs could stop payment.

Fouls in the first half Spurs 22 - Mavs 7...who was the aggressor?

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Originally Posted by whottt

Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago

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Originally Posted by whottt

False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously.

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:lol

What is false? That May of 2006 wasn't three years ago? Three years ago Barry had never even faced the Mavs as a member of the Spurs.

Barry started multiple games in that series, including Game 4 in which he played 38 minutes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006

Or are you going to argue that those 38 minutes weren't important minutes?

You usually are in some fantasy world when it comes to Barry but this is a new low for you. Even last year, Barry averaged over 20 minutes per game against the Mavericks.

So now not only does Barry only play point guard when whottt watches games, Barry also hasn't ever played an important minute against the Mavs in his Spurs career.

:dizzy

Terry was killing us tonight. I was having flashbacks of Vinnie Johnson the way he heated up out there. It's seems like he has less responsibilities with their second unit so all he focuses on is his offense and the occasional shot to the groin.

I don't see Terry keeping up his hot shooting for too long. He suffers from Mav-itis in disappearing from big games.

Let's just say the Spurs defense isn't what it usually is come playoff time. Devin Harris' dribble penetration and Terry's 3's killed us tonight.

Props to the Mavs...they brought it and finished.

So Parker had a horrible game. Let's hope there isn't something serious like an injury behind that. NBA players have more than 100 games per season, it's not a big deal if they have sometimes a way off game as long as it's not in the playoff.

Against Lakers, Duncan was crappy but against Dallas you can't have a member of the big three being really bad and still won, even more when you need a lot of scoring because the defense isn't good.

Anyway, this was a just a November game, but Spurs should be quitemotivated for the rockets game today : being 0-3 against Texas' teams and against other contenders sounds quite bad to start the season.

An optimal strategy for the Spurs in their mission to repeat might be to avoid a playoff series with their matchup nightmare, Dallas.

One effective way to accomplish that is to finish as the top seed in the conference. That, in turn, would likely lead to a Mavs/Suns playoff series, and, ceteris paribus, I don't believe the Mavs would win.

Of course, I'd love the Spurs to pummel and humiliate the Mavs in the playoffs, but I'd rather the Spurs repeat. So unless something changes in the Spurs/Mavs dynamic, the team from San Antonio would be well-advised to put a premium, atypically for them, on finishing with the best record in the conference.

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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Originally Posted by intlspurshk

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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Yeah, Barry really sucked major balls last night :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by intlspurshk

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

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You mean like how Dallas looked against Warriors the other night? Every team has a matchup nightmare out there in the league. Ours is Dallas. The solution isn't to pack up and go home. The solution is to strategize and practice the strategy many times before you try out against your opponent (something they didn't do in 2006). And it definitely helps if you bring in at least some defensive effort and your point guard doesn't look like his wife sucked his energy out the night before.

thanx for the analysis TIMVP,since I couldn't watch the game last night I can have a pretty good idea of what happened by reading it.
Something that catched my eyes when I took a look at the boxscore were the Mavs Fastbreak points,They had 19 last night,plus they had 52 % from the fg vs a 42 % for the spurs.
I guess they just played better D. tham us,plain and simple, but still it´s just one lose on the road.Let's move on.

Spurs not being aggresive in the first half had a lot to do with Parker. He's really the engine of that starting unit. If he's playing aggressive, penetrating in the lane, getting easy buckets then the Spurs have ball movement and easier baskets. He wasn't doing that and the rest of the team followed suit. The ball seemed stagnant at times and they were forcing the issue at times.

Warriors are the Mavs as the Mavs are to the Spurs. Mavs are built to beat the Spurs and we haven't addressed any issues since 2006 it seems. Spurs did miss Robert Horry greatly I think in tonight's game.

And please Pop, get Michael Finley out of the starting lineup. If he can't make shots, then that leaves just Parker and Duncan as the offensive weapons in your starting lineup. That packs the lane and limits the drives to the basket and limits the Spurs ball movement and offense.

Props to Barry for showing up. I just think that putting him in the starting lineup is going to be counter productive. I like him coming off the bench with Ginobili, shooting 3's and opening the floor. I think Pop should just start Udoka...he can't be that much worse than Finley. At least this way, Udoka will get some quality playing time and experience under his belt.

And I agree about Bonner being a lost cause. For every one great rebound or shot he makes, he immediately has about 3-4 careless mistakes that make you scratch your head. Like that foul after the jump ball...was that really neccesary?

Well, we off to another typical Spur season :toast . Seventy something games to go. This note is to the new or unobservant fan.

Note: Spurs win games in cycles. On average, win 4 or 5 games in a row, lose 1. This cycle is repeated all season long :rolleyes . This is the way we roll. We are off to a good start this year. I think the Spurs will only lose 17 games this year. Only Time will tell. So, note to self. After we have won 4 or 5 games, expect the Spurs to lose 1. It doesn't matter who they are playing. Its a numbers thang:nope:oink . Sit back relax and enjoy. Its business as usual.

The officiating did not affect the outcome last night, but it was frustrating as hell. (The Mavs outplayed the Spurs, but the margin of victory was influenced by the refs.) The Spurs fell into the trap of complaining instead of playing mad. Oberto was the only Spur giving consistent effort, but he was largely ineffective. At least Purdue won last night...

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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You seem to be the only person who sees what I see. Everytime the Spurs closed the gap they tried a double-team and got burned by a wide open three point shot or a drive because Popovich is too blind (or stupid) to see that he doesn't have the personnel that's quick enough to recover. I don't think Terry or Stackhouse had to put the ball on the floor the entire game to score their points. Just ONCE he should try playing man to man, stay at home on the shooters, and let the chips fall where they may.

Good summary.

My concerns with this most recent Mavs loss are actually the same as with every loss recent loss to this team. The same deficiencies keep cropping up.

Matchups:
Mavs match up so well and have so much offensive firepower that they seemingly are the only team to consistently shred the Spurs defense. Pop seems powerless in how to stop them. I trust Udoka will develop to a point this season where he can crack the rotation. I still believe he can help greatly. They need more out of Elson in this type of game. I still believe he can matchup better with Dirk than anyone on the team. I don't want to see him rotate off Dirk - ever.

Turnovers:
Mavs create a lot of transition opportunities by blocking shots, slapping at the ball and creating steals on the perimeter. Spurs need to take better care of the ball, reduce the turnovers, and concentrate on negating the transition advantage the Mavs have demonstrated.

Lack of penetration opportunites:
Mavs always do a good job of keeping Tony out of the lane. Devin Harris defends him as well or better than anyone in the league. Tony, Manu and whoever the backup PG is need to continue testing the lane and being aggressive. Making smart plays, taking good shots making plays for others off penetration.

Outside shooting:
Barry was huge. The points about Finley are dead on. No longer is he the type of player that can resort to other offensive options if his shot isn't falling. He's a jump shooter only and has been for the past 5-6 years. However seeing as how his abilities started a decline his last 2 years in Dallas, no one should be surprised at his inconsistency. This was precisely what concerned me when he arrived. As a result, he becomes a liability at both ends. This team needs better outside shooting to keep defenders honest. If Finley continues his struggles, Pop needs to move him down the bench. The big three will continu doing their thing. Consistent shooting and scorig from the bench is what concerns me.

Lack of aggression:
Spurs always seem a step slow against this team. Slower to the ball, slower on defensive rotations. Spurs are normally very good at defending the 3-pt line - except against this team. The Mavs are not the kind of team you can cheat off their 3-pt shooters. Also, the Spurs usually get themselves into an early hole that they spend the entire game trying to dig themselves out of. Manu seems to be the only Spurs that consistently keeps attacking from start to finish. Sometimes this forces him to press a bit to make a play. However, I'll take that mindset any day.

As much as the Mavs question whether they can beat the Warriors, the Spurs must remember they have not solved the matchup issues versus the Mavs. It's a long season and while there is no need to panic, last night's game serves as a reminder of what a formidable foe the Mavs are for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Holt's Cat

Never say never.

AJ preps his crew too much for the regular season. Not surprising, because AJ's always been the competitor. Plus he almost has to because I perceive that Cuban is probably the worst owner in the league at needling his coaching staff after every game.

The season is 100+ games long if you seek a title. Maybe AJ will figure that out sooner or later.

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Obviously you haven't kept up with the Mavs much lately, as he has really changed that approach considerably.

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

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You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

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Originally Posted by stretch

You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

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Yes, that is true.

I still think the Spurs ought to try guarding the Mavs straight up in a regular season game just to see what would happen. I think you are correct, and it would get ugly. Still, it would be nice to know for sure.