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No one "compared" him to those players. They simply pointed out the numbers. Argue with them if you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medvedenko
I think Kobe and Lebron are better players, but Manu is one of the top 10 talents in the league. Given a chance to play more often with Tim and Tony on the bench this year, his numbers should be more reflective of his ability.
His effectiveness at the rim will probably be curtailed, but I doubt that injuries will be the reason, a la a high flyer like Kobe. Tony has also taken steps to ensure that he doesn't have to finish at the rim: the teardrop and the jumper. Even with his early entry at 19, I think that by the time his athleticism begins to decline, he'll be smart enough player to still be very effective. While he's played more minutes than Manu, he could never be described as playing "heavy NBA minutes". This year is his highest average minutes, and he's only playing 34.9. Most All Star calibur players play in the neighborhood of 38-39 minutes. Doesn't sound like a huge difference, but if you take Tony's career 33 mpg and compare it to another player's 38 mpg, that 5 mpg X 80 games, or about 400 extra minutes, or 10+ extra games for the other player, per season. Pop is a genius for managing the Spurs minutes.Quote:
This is also why I think Parker may decline at an earlier age than most people expect. He's pretty young too, but those minutes (especially considering he's been in the playoffs every year since he came into the league) will take their toll sooner or later.
When did anyone say shotting 12 times a game? I merely mention the amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
And you're a fucking moron to say that just because Tim isn't playing at the high level he usually does, that his presence makes no difference. There is no player in the league who's presence has a bigger effect on their team than Tim Duncan.
Don't forget that Shaq didn't want to give up shots to Kobe either. Tim would be a MUCH better fit as a teammate of Kobe's than Shaq, because Tim doesn't need the ball to be effect like Shaq did, and is a much better teammate and leader than Shaq ever was. Tim Duncan is IMO the greatest teammate and leader in NBA history.
Give Manu the shit team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holt's Cat
I recommend you as well as the other 40 posters here trying to debate with me, to prove to me that Tim Duncan does not help improve Manu's game, and that Manu would be just as effective without Tim Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpurOutofTownFan
Unfortunately for your argument, no one was talking about Jason Terry having a hot start, were we dipshit?Quote:
Originally Posted by E20
Cmon...he would average 20+ a night easily lol...especially with more playing time and touches. His efficiency would dip no doubt but 20 points is a cakewalk for swingmen today. The rules are catered to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Unfortunately for your argument, no one was talking about the opnion of a dumbass mavs fan having a say, were we dipshit?
Yes. We were.Quote:
Originally Posted by E20
I think he would maybe average around 20-22 a night, but like you said, if he does, its on a far lower shooting %, more in the mid to low 40s because he won't have the easy shots and layups that he gets from the picks Duncan sets, or the opponents double teaming and focusing their defensive attention on Timmy all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Give Manu the shit team Kobe has, and Manu would average close to 30 PPG! Playing on an excellent team with 2 other great scoring options doesn't help Manu's PPG... it hurts it.
Your logic isn't, well... logical.
Yeah, because Manu only makes the easy shots. It's not like we see the guy get the shit knocked out of him on a nightly basis as he pinballs his way through the lane or anything. You obviously watch a lot of Spurs basketball. Why, I'm sure you hardly ever miss a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta
What is stretch trying to argue? Ginobili can't score without Duncan or Parker? Because he does and he can. Ginobili plays with the 2nd unit for the bulk of the 1st half and 3rd quarter and is present with TP/TD during the 4Q. So, I don't see much for debate. Ginobili has always been a proven scorer when he gets touches. This year he had 3 months of rest which has given him fresh legs and energy. Ginobil has even said multiple times that his level of play is thanks to all the rest he has gotten and has said he's gonna see how he feels and plays at the end of the year. He usually plays better towards the end of the year/PO's.
I never once said he can't score without Duncan or Parker. My point is that would not be as effective or efficient as the numbers show, without Duncan. Can you argue that? Can you honestly say that he would be just as good of a player without Tim Duncan playing with him? I don't think there is a player in NBA history that would improve without playing alongside Tim Duncan. I have always had nothing but the best things to say about Duncan, including that he is the greatest PF and teammate of all time. I don't think there is a better player in NBA history at making his teammates better by making things easier for them. If anything, many of you Spurs fans should be happy, since many people here have said that Duncan doesn't get the respect he deserves. I think it is very arguable that you can say that Tim Duncan is the second greatest player in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan, and in my list, he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by E20
What about Brent Barry? He's had better seasons in Seattle and led the league in 3PT% in Seattle this has nothing to do with the argument, just wanted to point a misnomer. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Tim Duncan puts pressure off of Ginobili in the 4thQ, but what about when Duncan is off the floor? When the offense runs through Ginobili with the 2nd unit. That's the sole reason for Manu to come off the bench -- to give the team a scoring threat while resting Duncan/Parker. I'm willing to say taht Ginobili scores most of his 20 PPG and does his work with Duncan and/or Parker on the bench, because that is when he gets the most touches.
Also, I agree that Tim Duncan makes the game much easier for everybody else.
Also, if Manu was in the same position as Kobe or Lebron and played the same minutes, his stats would rise, but his FG% would decline and TO's would rise.
Wow, Ginobili's out-rebounding McGrady? Damn.
Manu can make 30 per night if he gets the ball, but that is no needed in Spurs team. Team play = championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
you right about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
IF he can average 20 ppg with the spurs system,playing with 2 great scores in the league like TP and TD, He'll probably average 30 ppg in 39 mpgs in a shity team. Just like Kobe. :rolleyes
And this was where the comparisons became ridiculous. There is NO comparison between Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and then Manu. Those guys are all in another class of player, and any non-homer fan knows that. That was my point the whole time. Don't get me wrong, Manu is a wonderful player, and I really admire the way he plays the game, and wish more people would play like him, especially with his heart, effort, and determination. The league needs more of that. I'm just saying that its ridiculous to say that he is on the same level of those players, just because he is off to a pretty hot start. You homers get your panties in a wad far too easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan.
what you mean by deferent level??Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
lower level they are at ???
I would say:same level.
Homer. :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan.
he's not a homer... he's a complete fucking idiot!Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
fuck off biotch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc