20pts - 5reb - 5ast players

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Originally Posted by stretch

Give Manu the shit team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

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If he's getting 40 touches a night like Kobe does, no problem.

Manu is God.

End of story.

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Originally Posted by Holt's Cat

If he's getting 40 touches a night like Kobe does, no problem.

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Kobe shoots it 20-25 times a night. Not to mention, he gets double and sometimes even triple teamed EVERY time he touches the ball. Manu virtually never has to worry about being double teamed, because of his team.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Kobe shoots it 20-25 times a night. Not to mention, he gets double and sometimes even triple teamed EVERY time he touches the ball. Manu virtually never has to worry about being double teamed, because of his team.

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Manu is never doubled? That's a new one. Lest we forget that he's been the man on other teams (Kinder Bologna, Argentine National) on which he was the man.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Kobe shoots it 20-25 times a night. Not to mention, he gets double and sometimes even triple teamed EVERY time he touches the ball. Manu virtually never has to worry about being double teamed, because of his team.

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That's a myth. No wing player gets double and triple teamed every time they touch the ball. Kobe got one on one treatment against the Spurs. Kobe got one on one treatment the whole night against the Pistons on Friday. Got the same one on one defense last night with the Bulls. The only time teams truly collapse on him is when he gets in the paint and that happens to EVERY wing player who gets into the paint.

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Originally Posted by Holt's Cat

Manu is never doubled? That's a new one. Lest we forget that he's been the man on other teams (Kinder Bologna, Argentine National) on which he was the man.

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Compared to what Kobe has to face? It's nothing.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Compared to what Kobe has to face? It's nothing.

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yeah, didnt you see the triple teams the raptor's were throwing at kobe when he went for 81? and the cheap shots? there are so many good defenders in the NBA, and so many good teams, and they're all just waiting for kobe to show up so they can kill him on national television!!!

manu never gets that kind of defensive attention. certainly not when argentina beat the US NT in indiana (that was all oberto), definitely not in athens (scola!), and definitely not in the playoffs with the NBA champs (duncan, duh). did you see the denver series in 05? they just rolled out the red carpet and said "we can live with that scrub ginobili bricking layups, just dont let barry get hot from 3!." it worked so good that seattle and detroit did the same thing. that manu guy can only score when other people are doing all the hard work of creating an easy shot for him, like jaque vaughn and pepe sanchez. there is no way a team led by manu could beat a team led by lebron or ai, not to mention a team with carlos boozer or duncan. kobe could beat all of those guys at the same time, and he wouldnt even need more than one or two nba players and a coach no one has ever heard of.

actually, kobe has the 4th best bench in the NBA and a hof-er coach, and he has a hard time beating teams with 1/8th the talent of team USA. the only time he ever won anything was when he played with shaq. yet it's manu that depends on duncan for success??? :drunk

Fantastic numbers on Manu so far. All that while still averaging less than 30 minutes a game.

Manu is not worthy of tying Kobe's shoes.

So Manu is only a good player because of Duncan ?

So let's look at the number.
It's the number from the 06-07 regular season from 82games.com:

Manu stats per 40 min with Duncan (Manu played 1400min with Duncan) :
FGA : 15.1
FG%: .474
FTA: 7.1
Rebounds : 6.7
Assists : 4.1
Turnovers : 2.7
Blocks : 0.5
Stl : 2.0
Points : 22.9

Manu stats per 40 min without Duncan (Manu played 659min without Duncan) :
FGA : 19.8
FG%: .443
FTA: 7.4
Rebounds : 5.8
Assists : 7.2 :smokin
Turnovers : 3.6
Blocks : 0.5
Stl : 2.3
Points : 26.7 :smokin

Manu has a lower FG% without Duncan but it's not a disaster (you had to consider that he takes a lot of 3's).
Without Duncan, Manu scored last season 26.7points per 40 minutes. For reference Lebron James scored 26.7points per 40 minutes last year.
7.2 assists per 40 min is also damn impressive for someone who isn't a PG.

And the scary thing is that Manu is, for the moment, way better than last year.

By looking at these numbers, it's quite evident that Manu is a great player because of Duncan. :lol

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Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

So far, having played roughly 1/8 of the season, these are your 20-5-5 players in the league.

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Name            GP  MPG  PPG  FGA-FGM  FG%  3P%  FTA-FTM  FT% REB AST STL
LeBron James    10 40.7 29.2 10.3-21.8 .472 .375 7.4-11.0 .673 7.8 8.0 1.8
Kobe Bryant      8 38.0 27.4  9.8-20.6 .473 .333 6.4--7.9 .810 7.4 5.3 1.2
Tracy McGrady    9 35.8 26.8  9.8-20.9 .468 .366 5.6--7.3 .758 5.1 5.1 1.1
Manu Ginobili  10 28.8 20.0  5.7-12.0 .475 .429 6.5--7.8 .833 5.7 5.1 2.3

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:drunk

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You left one guy off the list that i like the best.

Josh Howard

33.1 minutes per game

23 ppg
55% fg
35% 3 pt
86% FT
5.9 Rebounds

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Originally Posted by 41times

You left one guy off the list that i like the best.

Josh Howard

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Howard isn't a 20/5/5 player.

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Originally Posted by 41times

You left one guy off the list that i like the best.

Josh Howard

33.1 minutes per game

23 ppg
55% fg
35% 3 pt
86% FT
5.9 Rebounds

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wtf????????

howard is averaging 22.9, 5.9, and 1.9.

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Originally Posted by diego

yeah, didnt you see the triple teams the raptor's were throwing at kobe when he went for 81? and the cheap shots? there are so many good defenders in the NBA, and so many good teams, and they're all just waiting for kobe to show up so they can kill him on national television!!!

manu never gets that kind of defensive attention. certainly not when argentina beat the US NT in indiana (that was all oberto), definitely not in athens (scola!), and definitely not in the playoffs with the NBA champs (duncan, duh). did you see the denver series in 05? they just rolled out the red carpet and said "we can live with that scrub ginobili bricking layups, just dont let barry get hot from 3!." it worked so good that seattle and detroit did the same thing. that manu guy can only score when other people are doing all the hard work of creating an easy shot for him, like jaque vaughn and pepe sanchez. there is no way a team led by manu could beat a team led by lebron or ai, not to mention a team with carlos boozer or duncan. kobe could beat all of those guys at the same time, and he wouldnt even need more than one or two nba players and a coach no one has ever heard of.

actually, kobe has the 4th best bench in the NBA and a hof-er coach, and he has a hard time beating teams with 1/8th the talent of team USA. the only time he ever won anything was when he played with shaq. yet it's manu that depends on duncan for success??? :drunk

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:clap

Seems a bit flukish for Manu to start off this hot. Tony and Tim are lagging a bit on offense, so I expect it to level off. Its possible Manu might be a little more effective on offense then both of them for a solid portion of the season, but its doubtful he has a +10%TS edge, and 5-6PPG more per 40 minutes by playoff time.

His PER in the 05 Playoffs was 25, but what was more impressive was that he was more effective on offense then Tim Duncan statistically, and also the fact that Parker wasn't too good offensively for most of the playoffs -- yet Manu still found a way to score at an astounding productivity.

His last two playoffs IMO have been a disappointment, especially compared 2005. He looked very good at times, but other times a non-factor. I really hope Manu can keep this up somewhat and bring back the 05 Manu in the playoffs. Would be a huge treat for the fans and be a huge boost to the Spurs title hopes.

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Originally Posted by Nikos

Seems a bit flukish for Manu to start off this hot. Tony and Tim are lagging a bit on offense, so I expect it to level off. Its possible Manu might be a little more effective on offense then both of them for a solid portion of the season, but its doubtful he has a +10%TS edge, and 5-6PPG more per 40 minutes by playoff time.

His PER in the 05 Playoffs was 25, but what was more impressive was that he was more effective on offense then Tim Duncan statistically, and also the fact that Parker wasn't too good offensively for most of the playoffs -- yet Manu still found a way to score at an astounding productivity.

His last two playoffs IMO have been a disappointment, especially compared 2005. He looked very good at times, but other times a non-factor. I really hope Manu can keep this up somewhat and bring back the 05 Manu in the playoffs. Would be a huge treat for the fans and be a huge boost to the Spurs title hopes.

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Come on! that last two playoffs, he's been great. Just because he hasn't been amazing like in 2005 doesn't mean he wasn't great. Last playoffs he might have had a few games where he should've played better, but overall I think he played awesome ball. You speak as if he hasn't contributed in the past two post seasons. That's bull and you know it. Without Manu the 2007 championship goes bye bye.

This season came out of nowhere though. Unexpected would be an understatement. Not only because Manu doesn't usually kick it up into high gear until later on in the season, but because the gear he is on right now, he's not supposed to have :lol

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Manu is not worthy of tying Kobe's shoes.

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seriously these spurs fans are something else.

when i was upset about our loss against the rockets..i was hit with "its only november" responses. but a day later when manu's barely decent stats (thats what they are, nothing special) are posted they compare him to wilt and jordan

:lol

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Originally Posted by TradeManu4Kobe

seriously these spurs fans are something else.

when i was upset about our loss against the rockets..i was hit with "its only november" responses. but a day later when manu's barely decent stats (thats what they are, nothing special) are posted they compare him to wilt and jordan

:lol

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I know right? His stats are nothing special. That's why we need to dump his ass. And compared to Wilt and Jordan??? :lmao

Totally agree with this guy. :tu

beno anyone?



:lol

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Originally Posted by 41times

You left one guy off the list that i like the best.

Josh Howard

33.1 minutes per game

23 ppg
55% fg
35% 3 pt
86% FT
5.9 Rebounds

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RIF

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Originally Posted by TradeParker4Nash

I know right? His stats are nothing special. That's why we need to dump his ass. And compared to Wilt and Jordan??? :lmao

Totally agree with this guy. :tu

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You agree with yourself?

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Originally Posted by Deimosfobos

You agree with yourself?

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I think they're different guys. But they are dating each other! :drunk

http://www.schoolhousevideo.org/Medi...r-pole-109.jpg

BUMP

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Originally Posted by stretch

It's a lot easier for him to be efficient when you have the greatest PF in NBA history playing with you, as opposed to Kwame Brown or Drew Gooden. Not to mention Parker > Daniel Gibson/Derek Fisher, Bruce Bowen > Larry Hughes/Luke Walton, as well as a loaded bench, as opposed to two teams with zero bench. Simply replace Manu with Kobe, and Kobe would probably 25-30 ppg on 50% shooting in the same amount of time as Manu.

Manu is simply having a hot start, and it will die down. The other guys mentioned are always just that good.

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WEll I put emphasys in rings - those guys don't bring any. Manu has always played this good more or less - you just haven't watched him for so long (this is clear as you demonstrate it again and again on each post you enter).

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Originally Posted by stretch

And this was where the comparisons became ridiculous. There is NO comparison between Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and then Manu. Those guys are all in another class of player, and any non-homer fan knows that. That was my point the whole time. Don't get me wrong, Manu is a wonderful player, and I really admire the way he plays the game, and wish more people would play like him, especially with his heart, effort, and determination. The league needs more of that. I'm just saying that its ridiculous to say that he is on the same level of those players, just because he is off to a pretty hot start. You homers get your panties in a wad far too easily.

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Why? Why are they in another class of player? What have TMac and Lebron done over Manu here or overseas? sell more t-shirts? I think Kobe is great but it looks to me he's on decline or he was always just this good but had Shaq with him (hence getting 3 rings)

I can't compare Kobe to Lebron - they are different. I can't compare T_Mac with Lebron, they are different. If you ask me what is the most complete players today in the league: Lebron. He's the most complete BBaller now.

So why do you think Manu is not in the same level? Is that what media says? is that in proportion to sales? branding? etc? I haven't seen anything special from T-Mac in years. Kobe looks like a whinny bitch and we all know his team won't make it to the finals. Lebron plays with a B team.

I'm not even talking about numbers posted. Forget about that. You need to watch more Manu games. You need to get to watch what he has done when he was in Europe or the national team. Only then you will have a better understanding of what you are trying to judge here. Only then.

PS. I applaud your spirit and the time you waste in this forum.