D-League: Vipers at Toros, tonight and tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Was there only one camera for the webcast?

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Yes. Commentators where Vipers' one. They were quite good except that they have a man love for CJ Watson.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Bruno..with young players like that you won't see their best game every night, and if you do, then they are on their way to being a star player. The difference between the stars and regular players is that the stars do it almost every night.

In any case...Ian's numbers are nice. I remain surprised that his shotblocking and rebounding are the weakest parts of his game and his offense is the best so far...I'd have expected exactly the opposite...I say this bodes well for his NBA future though as I think his rebounding and shotblocking will come along eventually, those are effort and practice/skill attributes...but offense? You can't teach offense, so the fact that he has offensive talent is definitely a huge plus.

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I'm not judging Mahinmi on one game. He had a good game but he could have done better job at rebounding the ball and on the defensive end in this game. As ChumpDumper said, a part of the reason was Vipers small ball and perimeter oriented offense.
During the game, I was surprised to see Mahinmi shooting a technical free throw for a defensive 3 second violation. I first thought that it was a stat padding thing but Mahinmi is in fact one of the best Toros' free throw shooter and hit 80% of his FTs. Mahinmi has a nice shooting touch and form for a bigman. If he could develop a reliable 16-18 ft jumpshoot, it will really useful when he will play with Tim.

And Bowen has had a really nice block during this game. He was just pure energy on this play.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I think the rent would be pretty high and scheduling would be a real bear. Anyway it's really large for the crowds a D-league team would get.

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Probably true...but I think playing in the Convention Center hurts their attendance.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes. Commentators where Vipers' one. They were quite good except that they have a man love for CJ Watson.




I'm not judging Mahinmi on one game. He had a good game but he could have done better job at rebounding the ball and on the defensive end in this game. As ChumpDumper said, a part of the reason was Vipers small ball and perimeter oriented offense.

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Well I agree that his rebounding hasn't been what I expected....but I think it's just acclimating to a different style of play as much as anything...it was the best part of his game in Europe.

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Mahinmi has a nice shooting touch and form for a bigman. If he could develop a reliable 16-18 ft jumpshoot, it will really useful when he will play with Tim.

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And to me that offsets any disappointment about his rebounding and shotblocking...I wateched as many games of him playing in Europe as I could get my hands on, and I never saw him with anything remotely resembling an offensive game...he looked much more like a defensive hustle and rebounding type than any kind of an offensive player.


It's a good paradox...I think his rebounding and shotblocking will come around.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Probably true...but I think playing in the Convention Center hurts their attendance.

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Probably, but it's likely pretty cheap which made it more or less a break-even operation for SW Basketball and probably for the Spurs too. I wouldn't mind too much if they end up playing in the Cedar Park arena in a couple of years if the tickets are around the same price. That might open them up to some more corporate sales too. They could probably get a good deal out at the Expo Center but that is way out in the sticks. It's going to take Austin ten years to grow out to it while the Cedar Park site will be surrounded almost by the time it is built. We'll have to see if that arena is going to be operated by the company Mark Cuban partly owns.

During preseason play, Mahinmi was hitting his jumper during game action. They weren't very pretty but he made almost all of his perimeter shots. However, according to everyone's analysis, it appears that he has struggled with his jumpshot on the D-League level.

And while Mahinmi's offensive production in the D-League is nice, I'd like it more if he were dominating on the glass and by blocking shots. A lot of bad players can score a lot on the D-League level, however very few players have put up monster numbers in rebounds and blocked shots at a young age.

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Originally Posted by timvp

A lot of bad players can score a lot on the D-League level.

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Yeah but...Ian wasn't even showing signs of an offensive game in those junior Euroleagues...it's definitely an aspect of his game that's improving. To what degree is hard to say...but it's certainly a plus.


The shotblocking thing I can understand him struggling with a bit as I think he's grown 2 or 3 inches since the Spurs drafted him...and that kind of growth can take a while to adjust too...

The rebounding I have no answer for other than skinny guys sometimes struggle to rebound...maybe after he fills out some more those numbers will start to improve.

He's definitely got the hustle attitude to get rebounds, and jumping and length...so it may just be a case of him getting pushed around.

I have not seen him play since he went to Austin. It seems that some of the problems could be his adjustment to staying out of foul trouble, which he has improved on and that can take away from his stats regarding rebounding and shot blocking.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It's showing up on the beta webcast schedule in case anyone wants to tune in.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/webcastDleague.html

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This link is working for anyone who wants to tune in.

End of the half, Toros down 51-49. The game is pretty sloppy as the refs have been calling everything.

Snyder has used a lot of small ball with Marcus Williams at power forward ... and Williams has responded nicely. 17 points and 10 rebounds at half :tu

Mahinmi has been silent. Three points and three rebounds in under 12 minutes of play. He hasn't been in foul trouble but Snyder has been extra cautious for some reason. Perhaps he's planning to play him big minutes in the second half. Mahinmi got frustrated a few times as there was some ball hogging going on and Mahinmi wasn't getting his usually touches.

CJ Watson for the Vipers has 20 points, four rebounds and four assists at half time. I still don't want him even though the Spurs could use a third string point guard. He's a pretty good scorer but his court vision is severely lacking. On the NBA level, I don't think he'd be a good enough scorer to make up for not being able to pass.

7 turnovers on Marcus Williams, pathetic.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Snyder has used a lot of small ball with Marcus Williams at power forward ... and Williams has responded nicely. 17 points and 10 rebounds at half :tu

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:wow

Mahinmi fouled out on one of the dumber fouls in basketball history.

Ooooooovertime. Gadsen comes up clutch in the fourth. Mahinmi and Simmons fouled out. CJ Watson has 38 for Vipers ... Williams has 22 and 17 for the Toros.

The Vipers choked from the free throw line and Williams got a layup to send the game into double overtime. Gadsen and Williams with the clutch plays for the Toros. Watson came into the game shooting 90%+ from the line and missed two in a row that could have iced the game :lol

Toros about to win. Marcus Williams with 30 points and 20 rebounds. Impressive dunks in the second overtime. As a power forward in D-League, Williams is a monster.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Toros about to win. Marcus Williams with 30 points and 20 rebounds. Impressive dunks in the second overtime. As a power forward in D-League, Williams is a monster.

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Maybe the Spurs drafted him as a small ball PF?

He looked pretty good tonight.



That live feed announcing sucked btw..


I've always suspected Mark Hoenig is a douchebag(as are all the guys who work for KVET)...but after tonight I am certain of it.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Maybe the Spurs drafted him as a small ball PF?

He looked pretty good tonight.



That live feed announcing sucked btw..


I've always suspected Mark Hoenig is a douchebag(as are all the guys who work for KVET)...but after tonight I am certain of it.

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He's definitely not a small ball PF. He's not physical enough.

As opposed to Mike Finley primarily and even Brent Barry a time or two ...the two guys that have manned the small PF position for us over the past 4 years...


Got it.

Comparing him and Brent Barry is okay. But you can't say Marcus is as physical as Michael.

Marcus is long...True. However, he's not bulky enough to handle the PF position, even to Finley's level.

Finley can somewhat handle that position. That is why Pop plays small ball with Finley at there and not Barry.

:worthy: Marcus Williams

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Originally Posted by Mr.Bottomtooth

:worthy: Marcus Williams

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Obviously he doesn't have the consistent outside game that the Spurs coaching staff cherishes, but you HAVE to admit he's made significant strides from his SL and training camp play.

I know it's just a D-League game, but 32/20 for a 6'7 210lb combo forward is very intriguing.

If he can work to extend his range and work on his speed/quickness, I think he can become a viable option for long 3/small ball 4 in the longterm.

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Originally Posted by usckk

Comparing him and Brent Barry is okay. But you can't say Marcus is as physical as Michael.

Marcus is long...True. However, he's not bulky enough to handle the PF position, even to Finley's level.

Finley can somewhat handle that position. That is why Pop plays small ball with Finley at there and not Barry.

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Bowen is the other guy that sometimes handles the small-ball 4 position and he's not bulky either.

Alot of the time it's more about long arms than it is strong body. However, if I were Spurs FO and coaching staff, I think I'd actually steer him more towards developing his 3pt shot and working on his speed/athleticism to the point where he's strictly more a 2/3 than a 3/4.

Williams can survive as a small ball power forward in D-League. In the NBA, he'd have to gain about 20 pounds. But yeah, Finley and Barry aren't exactly poster boys for small ball power forwards either.

Williams' jumper isn't that ugly when he isn't nervous. During summer league and preseason, Williams jumper was damn ugly. In the regular season, that one jumper he took he almost killed himself. However, in the free flowing D-League, his hitch isn't that bad.

He has some huge flaws (slow feet, slow release, etc.) but at least he's putting up numbers in the D-League. He still has a big amount of work to do before he's NBA ready but he's at least going in the right direction. If the Toros can keep him all year and then the Spurs put him on a summer workout regimen, there might be a shot for him to make the NBA at some point down the road.

Oh and Williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Langford. Langford is supposedly a really good kid but at least Williams has a shot to be an NBA player. Langford is just a slightly better prospect than Lang.

Before I give my overall thoughts on this game, I'll give ChumpDumper the first crack at it.

I was at the game sitting court side when I looked to my left and saw Danny Ferry sitting next to me. I wanted to say something but decided not to bother him. On the other hand when the DLeague people came around to drop off the first qtr stats sheets, they gave him one too many. He looked at me and said want one. I thought it was cool. Anyway my two cents worth. Great game.