Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Knicks Jan. 4

A day after having perhaps their best defensive effort of the season, the Spurs turned around and had one of their worst defensive performances in their 97-93 victory over the New York Knicks. Against an already pitiful Knicks team without Zach Randolph, the Spurs allowed New York to shoot 49.4% from the field in the AT&T Center.

For the Spurs, the best part of the game was the offensive production of the role players. The Big Three combined to shoot 10-for-29 from the field, with both Tim Duncan and Tony Parker struggling from the field and Manu Ginobili still sidelined with a finger injury. The Spurs won by getting 73 points from their role players, who did a good job of knocking down their three-pointers (11-for-22).

The Knicks gave a good effort and got inspired play from Eddy Curry. Curry, who has struggled playing next to Randolph, was free to dominate the low block – and he did just that. Curry had 25 points and 12 rebounds, while shooting 10-for-12 from the field. Former Spur Malik Rose also chipped in with season-highs in points (six) and rebounds (seven).

-Tim Duncan has seen better days. Offensively, it appeared that his banged up thumb was giving him problems. Defensively, he did a poor job on Curry when the two matched up. On the game, Duncan finished with 12 points, nine rebounds, five assists and two blocks. However, Duncan hit only 5-of-16 field goal attempts and had three of the team’s six turnovers. This outing broke the string of seven consecutive games with at least 11 rebounds for Duncan. On the whole, Duncan’s energy was good – he just had an bad night.

-Tony Parker again didn’t look quite right. Whether it was a bum ankle, the fatigue of a back-to-back or a combination of both, Parker just didn’t seem to have much gas in the tank. Instead of attacking the basket, Parker let the Knicks off the hook by repeatedly shooting jumpers. He finished the game 5-for-13 from the floor, including 3-for-9 on jumpers. The good news is Parker had five assists and no turnovers in 37 minutes of action.

-This was a rare game in which Bowen’s offense was better than his defense. Bowen led the Spurs in scoring with 15 points on 5-for-10 shooting from the field and 2-for-4 shooting from beyond the three-point line. Bowen also hit 3-of-4 free throws late to help seal the victory. Bowen was giving good effort on defense but Jamal Crawford scored a number of baskets while being guarded by Bowen. The Spurs’ 36-year-old defensive ace played 41 minutes a night after playing 40 minutes – and showed no signs of fatigue.

-Michael Finley is starting to make Spurs fans forget about his early season struggles. Finley scored 14 points, his 10th straight game in double figures. From the field, Finley connected on 6-of-11 attempts, including a late three-pointer that gave the Spurs breathing room. Hopefully Finley can have this type of shooting touch once the playoffs come around.

-Robert Horry finally showed some signed of life offensively. After missing his last 11 shots from the field, Horry went 2-for-4 from beyond the arc in this game. He also pulled down six rebounds, dished out four assists and had two steals. Horry had recently looked like he was on his last leg, but was able to come out with a vintage Horry performance against the Knicks. Horry led the Spurs in plus/minus with a +16 in his 20 minutes of play. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come for Horry.

-Matt Bonner had a nice statistical night but I wasn’t overly impressed with his play. Bonner had 14 points, six rebounds and three steals in 24 minutes of playing time, while connecting on 5-of-11 shots from the field and 3-of-5 three-pointers. However, I felt that Bonner’s defense wasn’t as good as it has been in recent games. I also thought that Bonner forced some shots offensively and missed a number of rebounds he should have grabbed. Bonner’s team-worst plus/minus of -11 further points to Bonner perhaps not playing as well as his numbers indicate.

-Ime Udoka knocked down a couple shots, which was good to see considering the massive slump Udoka has been in. Udoka hit 2-of-4 shots from the field and both of his free throws in his 15 minutes of playing time. Overall, it was a decent game but not a performance that will help Udoka win more playing time.

-Fabricio Oberto had an up and down game. He had a couple moments where he was battling defensively and on the boards, but Oberto also had a number of poor defensive possessions and he struggled offensively. Oberto hit only 1-of-4 shots from the field, however he did grab five rebounds in 14 minutes of play. Hopefully the return of Ginobili will jumpstart Oberto’s game as well.

-Jacque Vaughn played reasonably well. He kept the Spurs offense flowing for the most part and didn’t force his own offense. Vaughn finished with five points, six assists and no turnovers in 14 minutes of play. This was a step in the right direction for Vaughn.

-DerMarr Johnson played five first half minutes and did a nice job. He scored eight points in those five minutes, as he shot 2-for-5 from beyond the arc and connected on his lone two-point attempt. Johnson’s jumper looked good and he wasn’t scared to let it fly. A 6-foot-9 small forward who can shoot has a spot on the Spurs. The problem I saw was his defense, which was poor -- to put it nicely. However, if he can become adequate on that end of the court, this game could be the springboard Johnson needed to grab a roster spot.

-I’m not sure who Pop was rooting for at the end of the game. If the Knicks had won, Pop would have had ammunition for the rest of the season to get this team to play hard night-in and night-out. Even with this win, I don’t think anyone will be too impressed. In fact, I was more impressed with the loss against the Nuggets than this win against the Knicks. Right now, I’m looking forward to the time when the Big Three can all be healthy and on the court at the same time. Not only is Ginobili’s finger keeping that from happening, but Duncan and Parker both look less than 100% right now. Luckily there are still four months before the playoffs begin.

this is far from being a statement game for the spurs. i'm just relieved they won.

While much of Bonner's play on the night wasn't worth writing home about, I thought his play late in the game showed some good things. That assist on the Finley 3 was nice, as well as a couple rebounds.

I'm very worried about Parker. He never seems to fully come back when he has ankle trouble. Before tonight, I had not remembered him hitting a good looking jump shot since he's come back. His free throw also looks out of whack. He needs to spend more time with Chip, he's letting bad habits creep back into his form.

Oberto has become exposed, he's virtually worthless without ginobili on the floor to feed him the rock.

DeMarrrrr's free stroking looked nice, and he was our entire late 1st half offense.

Eddie Curry defended Duncan so well he caught the ball in his spot once in the entire fourth quarter IIRC

Thanks timvp.
I know it's repititious to say after every one of your game thoughts that I love them.
But I do.
They are well thought out and wonderfully written. I don't know how you get them posted as quickly as you do every game.

I repeat myself again: I love being able to digest what I just saw with your take on it. I usually agree with most of what you say, if I don't it gives me the chance to see it from another angle, something I may have missed.
Not having any Spurs fans around me to talk about games in depth with makes your thoughts that much more valuable to me.
Thank you for your time and effort in making these posts for us.

Tonight is one of those nights where I think you're dead-on in everything you said.
Most importantly, there's plenty of time for this team to pull out of this slump and set things right before the Playoffs. I have complete faith that it will happen. Especially on the defensive end. Every "Spurs basketball" kind of play tonight started on the defensive end and resulted in a basket or a trip to the line. Offense flows from defense and as soon as our defense is at the level we know they can bring it to everything else will fall into place.

On a personal note, I hate it when Duncan has an off night. I do think his thumb bothered him more than we were told. He took the tape off it by halftime, I think the tape made it even worse.

The Champs get everyone's best shot. They took the Knicks' well enough to win the game.

Outside of Duncan, the Spurs frontline sucks

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Outside of Duncan, the Spurs frontline sucks

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It is our Achilles heel this season. Elson and Oberto are both worse than they were last year, and they were only serviceable last year. Bonner has some periods of nice ballin', followed by mediocrity. I respect the fact that he tries hard, like Oberto, but neither of those guys is athletically gifted AT ALL. Neither one can get an inch off the ground. Duncan can at least get up to 3 inches off the ground when he has a running start.

Horry? We'll see. I think we'll be lucky if he gives us 10-20 solid minutes in the playoffs.

Spurs FO better be thinking of some trade possibility.

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Originally Posted by peskypesky

It is our Achilles heel this season. Elson and Oberto are both worse than they were last year, and they were only serviceable last year. Bonner has some periods of nice ballin', followed by mediocrity. I respect the fact that he tries hard, like Oberto, but neither of those guys is athletically gifted AT ALL. Neither one can get an inch off the ground. Duncan can at least get up to 3 inches off the ground when he has a running start.

Horry? We'll see. I think we'll be lucky if he gives us 10-20 solid minutes in the playoffs.

Spurs FO better be thinking of some trade possibility.

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I think this year, especially with the injuries, we are depending on them a lot more. All three of our best players have been hurt, and it's making our role players shoulder a lot more of the scoring load. This in turn makes them less effective and more pressured on the defensive end of things, and we end up looking a lot worse on both ends of the court, especially when our shots aren't falling.

This is pretty much the same pattern that has happened the past 4 years, at least. Pop is battle-testing our players right now. Many Spurs fans were quick to point out that December/January is usually when our team begins to fall off in terms of winning percentage. It's definitely a combination of factors, but when the team gets healthy and the playoff start to loom nearer, I look for this team to be in complete domination mode. As it stands, Parker looks like he's at 65%, Manu is at 0%, and Duncan isn't 100% by any means. Toss in a couple of other injuries and this is the result -- we just look sloppy because we're overextended on both sides of the ball.

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Originally Posted by peskypesky

It is our Achilles heel this season. Elson and Oberto are both worse than they were last year, and they were only serviceable last year. Bonner has some periods of nice ballin', followed by mediocrity. I respect the fact that he tries hard, like Oberto, but neither of those guys is athletically gifted AT ALL. Neither one can get an inch off the ground. Duncan can at least get up to 3 inches off the ground when he has a running start.

Horry? We'll see. I think we'll be lucky if he gives us 10-20 solid minutes in the playoffs.

Spurs FO better be thinking of some trade possibility.

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:lol For who? You do realize we have Splitter coming over next year and a nice young prospect in Ian up in Austin. The Spurs as is are pretty deep. Regarding Fran, dude doesn't look like he's going to play him self in the rotation any time soon. And I expect Oberto to maintain his brilliant level of play once Manu returns. Right now the real Achilles is the wing position. But rather then exploring trade's they're using their "farm system" in the D-League to fill those voids.

okey, great Bruce is doing well, WELL last night and our main boys are getting old, so what is our master plan ... being a loterry team for a decade like Bulls, or we are gonna make a decent team around TP?

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-Matt Bonner had a nice statistical night but I wasn’t overly impressed with his play. Bonner had 14 points, six rebounds and three steals in 24 minutes of playing time, while connecting on 5-of-11 shots from the field and 3-of-5 three-pointers. However, I felt that Bonner’s defense wasn’t as good as it has been in recent games. I also thought that Bonner forced some shots offensively and missed a number of rebounds he should have grabbed. Bonner’s team-worst plus/minus of -11 further points to Bonner perhaps not playing as well as his numbers indicate.

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I completely disagree. I thought this may have been Bonner's best defensive performance. He is finally coming off rotations quicker and able to stay in front of his man for the most part. He is getting better at getting on his man in the post and not going straight to a foul. This was the first game where I actually saw some nice improvement on the defensive side for him.

He had some very nice offensive rebounds. He did force some shots.

PLEASE get off Bonner's ass. He is the ONLY Spur playing like he gives a shit about winning. Parker and Duncan are pathetic !!
:madrun

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Many Spurs fans were quick to point out that December/January is usually when our team begins to fall off in terms of winning percentage. It's definitely a combination of factors, but when the team gets healthy and the playoff start to loom nearer, I look for this team to be in complete domination mode. As it stands, Parker looks like he's at 65%, Manu is at 0%, and Duncan isn't 100% by any means. Toss in a couple of other injuries and this is the result -- we just look sloppy because we're overextended on both sides of the ball.

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We have to remember that this is a long season and that historically, the Spurs have struggled in December and January. As has been said, the injuries only make it much harder for us to maintain. Also, we are the defending champs and every team we play will be bringing their "A" game against us. While last night's wins will not be a highlight of the season, it is still a win. As long as we find a way to fight through the injuries, we will be okay.

Also, as has been said, when we smell the playoffs coming, guys will take it up another level. We have a veteran team and the Spurs are known for their 2nd half success. Don't doubt. The Spurs will be there in the end.

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-Matt Bonner had a nice statistical night but I wasn’t overly impressed with his play. Bonner had 14 points, six rebounds and three steals in 24 minutes of playing time, while connecting on 5-of-11 shots from the field and 3-of-5 three-pointers. However, I felt that Bonner’s defense wasn’t as good as it has been in recent games. I also thought that Bonner forced some shots offensively and missed a number of rebounds he should have grabbed. Bonner’s team-worst plus/minus of -11 further points to Bonner perhaps not playing as well as his numbers indicate.

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I don't get it. This plus/minus thingy. Bonner outscores Duncan, grabs almost as many rebounds, gets 3 steals, shoots 60% from the arc and about 47% from the field, brings the only real hustle on the floor, and doesn't cause 50% of the TOs........And yet has a team worst plus/minus...What in the hell was Duncan's plus/minus for crying out loud? What does this guy have to do to earn some respect around here?

And JV had a nice game? Once again he takes over at point and a twelve or fourteen point lead dissappears, before Tony can come back in. It's the same ol' story almost every night.

Was at least glad to see Horry looking like he actually wanted to contribute again.

And why no Johnson in the 2nd half? Puts up 8 points in five minutes and then sits on the bench the rest of the night. Maybe his defense isn't so great, but I think you can say that none of the Spurs played stellar defense last night.

Certainly glad that Fin is finally Fin again. Otherwise we lose this game to the worst team in the league.

Say what you will about Bonner's rebounding, but he still got the clutchest rebound of the night late in the 4th.

Johnson DID provide some offensive spark in the 2nd quarter and it was desparately needed. Sure he whiffed badly on that crossover move by Crawford, but Pop should have given him some spot minutes in the 2nd half. He earned a longer look.

We're in trouble when the team shooting percentages are reversed from normal--eg. shooting 42% on 2s and 50% on 3s.

We are relying on 3 pt shooting too much and not getting into the paint for the easier scores. There are nights when the 3s won't fall and we'll be in trouble.

Bonner is becoming more consistent with his offense and defense with his opportunity for more minutes. Contrast him with other players who took a lot longer to develop within the Spurs system--and who aren't doing much now after being a Spur for years.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Tony Parker again didn’t look quite right. Whether it was a bum ankle, the fatigue of a back-to-back or a combination of both, Parker just didn’t seem to have much gas in the tank.

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The reason given by Parker about his so-so games against Denver and New york is that he has a cold. He said that he lack of breath.

Struggling

waiting for the SPAM to come ...

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The reason given by Parker about his so-so games against Denver and New york is that he has a cold. He said that he lack of breath.

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In Denver, it was obvious that he was having a lot of trouble breathing in the 4th quarter. I'm guessing the altitude didn't help his cold either.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

In Denver, it was obvious that he was having a lot of trouble breathing in the 4th quarter. I'm guessing the altitude didn't help his cold either.

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:tu
You guess right, that's exactly what he said.

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Originally Posted by Parker

I had a cold for some days. Against Denver, I still didn't feel really well. I lack of breath and the altitude didn't help me to breath. Against NY, I've tried to bring the most I can to the team. It wasn't outstanding but the main goal has been reached with the win.

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Parker being sick is good news. If it was a problem with his ankle, the Spurs might have had to shut him down for a while. Being sick would explain his play the last couple games as he was moving much slower and with a lot less explosion.

That's a sigh of relief for my fantasy team...

Otherwise I'd be facing next week without...

Artest
Barry
Radmanovic
Stackhouse

So a big wheeeewww from me! if Parker isn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Bonner Man-Love

PLEASE get off Bonner's ass. He is the ONLY Spur playing like he gives a shit about winning. Parker and Duncan are pathetic !!
:madrun

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Originally Posted by BonnerDynasty

I completely disagree. I thought this may have been Bonner's best defensive performance. He is finally coming off rotations quicker and able to stay in front of his man for the most part. He is getting better at getting on his man in the post and not going straight to a foul. This was the first game where I actually saw some nice improvement on the defensive side for him.

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I completely disagree. I've noted in recent games that Bonner had improved his defense but his D against the Knicks was some of his worst of the season. He wasn't rotating to the right spots a lot of the time. He was also getting physically manhandled, which is uncharacteristic. His defense against the Nuggets was much, much better ... other than the last play when he left Kenyon Martin open to give the Nuggets the lead.

If you don't want to believe me that Bonner's defense sucked against the Knicks, believe the numbers.

Of the players who played at least 20 minutes last night, here is how many points the team gave up per 48 minutes while the player was on the court:

Robert Horry - 67.9
Tim Duncan - 80.4
Tony Parker - 86.3
Bruce Bowen - 88.4
Michael Finley - 92.9
Matt Bonner - 114.2

That's just sickening numbers. The Spurs gave up about 1 more point per minute with Bonner on the court compared to Horry.

If you want to look at it another way, in the 24 minutes Bonner played the Knicks scored 57 points. In the 24 minutes Bonner didn't play the Knicks scored 36 points.

Again, Bonner's numbers looked pretty good but his defense took a big step backwards.

Bonner was trying to help David Lee pad his stats.

One comment - let's not get too high on Demarr. His lateral quickness is horrific, and that's probably why he hasn't stuck at the NBA level. Bonner looks like a good defender next to him.

Can anyone tell me what the Spurs' defensive stats looked like this time last season? I'm getting worried that this team isn't finding it's defensive character at all. Then again, it is January, and they usually don't find the real D until March.

Excellent game assessment, timvp. I went to the game and I'll just add that the 1st quarter the Spurs ball movement was in slow motion. I was surprised the Spurs had 5 assists in that quarter. They were not very aggressive and settled for running high screen/rolls without penetrating....shooting jumpers fairly late in the shot clock. Almost half of the assists came on 3-pointers. To be exact, 11 assists on threes, 13 on 2-pointers. That's a bit askew and supports the argument that the Spurs were settling for outside shots where there was less confrontation.

Matt Bonner was active but he does a poor job of boxing out. He does well when he can run in from the sides/wings to save possessions with tip-outs on hustle plays. Where he gets hurt is on his interior defense and box-outs, frequently getting caught too far under the basket. He needs to develop the art of taking a charge. He's got Manu, Fab and Bruce around to teach him so he should take advantage of the opportunity and learn how to draw the calls.

Summary: Since the Spurs were satisfied with walking the ball up most of the time, the half-court screen and rescreen offense allowed for a close game. There wasn't much early offense from either team. The Spurs were fortunate to keep this one from slipping away like the Denver game. They were one Oberto good acting job and one Michael Finley clean, pure 3-point swish away from allowing the Knicks to reach in and grab a win.

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Originally Posted by Solid D

Excellent game assessment, timvp. I went to the game and I'll just add that the 1st quarter the Spurs ball movement was in slow motion. I was surprised the Spurs had 5 assists in that quarter. They were not very aggressive and settled for running high screen/rolls without penetrating....shooting jumpers fairly late in the shot clock. Almost half of the assists came on 3-pointers. To be exact, 11 assists on threes, 13 on 2-pointers. That's a bit askew and supports the argument that the Spurs were settling for outside shots where there was less confrontation.

Matt Bonner was active but he does a poor job of boxing out. He does well when he can run in from the sides/wings to save possessions with tip-outs on hustle plays. Where he gets hurt is on his interior defense and box-outs, frequently getting caught too far under the basket. He needs to develop the art of taking a charge. He's got Manu, Fab and Bruce around to teach him so he should take advantage of the opportunity and learn how to draw the calls.

Summary: Since the Spurs were satisfied with walking the ball up most of the time, the half-court screen and rescreen offense allowed for a close game. There wasn't much early offense from either team. The Spurs were fortunate to keep this one from slipping away like the Denver game. They were one Oberto good acting job and one Michael Finley clean, pure 3-point swish away from allowing the Knicks to reach in and grab a win.

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Good post.

Hopefully the Solid D vacation from SpursTalk is over.

:hat

I was in the nosebleed seats Friday, and I have never seen a bigger bunch of Rock Pounding ballhogs than I saw with the NYK. They very well may have had more raw physical ability on the floor than the Spurs last night, but it was almost a joke watching Crawford and "Starberry" take turns playing "Look at Me Go One on Five". No ball movement, no teamwork, sickening.

That roster has the higher payroll in basketball. And of course, when it comes down to Nut Cutting time, the Knicks miss a couple of shots, and the Spurs pull it out even when the "AndOne" guys from the Knicks make a high percentage of shots most of the evening.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I completely disagree. I've noted in recent games that Bonner had improved his defense but his D against the Knicks was some of his worst of the season. He wasn't rotating to the right spots a lot of the time. He was also getting physically manhandled, which is uncharacteristic. His defense against the Nuggets was much, much better ... other than the last play when he left Kenyon Martin open to give the Nuggets the lead.

If you don't want to believe me that Bonner's defense sucked against the Knicks, believe the numbers.

Of the players who played at least 20 minutes last night, here is how many points the team gave up per 48 minutes while the player was on the court:

Robert Horry - 67.9
Tim Duncan - 80.4
Tony Parker - 86.3
Bruce Bowen - 88.4
Michael Finley - 92.9
Matt Bonner - 114.2

That's just sickening numbers. The Spurs gave up about 1 more point per minute with Bonner on the court compared to Horry.

If you want to look at it another way, in the 24 minutes Bonner played the Knicks scored 57 points. In the 24 minutes Bonner didn't play the Knicks scored 36 points.

Again, Bonner's numbers looked pretty good but his defense took a big step backwards.

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Let me guess. Bonner was on the floor and Horry was on the bench when Crawford went off on his "Can't miss" shooting streak. Dude was hot. You can't put that on Bonner.

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Originally Posted by SAGambler

Let me guess. Bonner was on the floor and Horry was on the bench when Crawford went off on his "Can't miss" shooting streak. Dude was hot. You can't put that on Bonner.

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its one of quirkiness of the lenovo stat. whether or not he was directly responsible for crawford is irrelevant so long as he was part of the crew that was on the floor at that time.

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Originally Posted by SAGambler

Let me guess. Bonner was on the floor and Horry was on the bench when Crawford went off on his "Can't miss" shooting streak. Dude was hot. You can't put that on Bonner.

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Bonner was on the court for part of that streak. However, that was actually one of his better stretches of the night defensively for the Spurs when Bonner was in the game. They only gave up about 2 points per minute, rather than the 2.5 they gave up the rest of the time.

If you want to watch it, http://cid-efe6cb399da6329b.spaces.live.com/