Long 3, Again

Nothing earth shattering here, just an FYI.

David Thorpe says that Isiah Thomas is shopping Wilson Chandler. I've also noticed Zeke has DNP-CD Balkman a number of times this season. I wonder if the Spurs would have an interest in either player.

Balkman can't shoot, so I'm dubious right off. I don't know much about Chandler, but, for all his short comings, Isiah has an eye for talent. Maybe Chandler's worth Elson and a future 2nd. The Spurs could assign Chandler to the Toros and try to develop him. Elson for Chandler would also save them a little money this year that they might use toward their 15th roster spot later in the season.

Does Elson for Chandler straight up even work?

Phat Tony,

NY could do it if they were willing to part with some of their Frye trade exception money.

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Originally Posted by tav1

Phat Tony,

NY could do it if they were willing to part with some of their Frye trade exception money.

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Sorry to put the kabash on that one too....

You can't package a trade exception with another player.



Really, it doesn't sound like a bad deal, but it just can't happen.

If the Spurs land that big small forward maybe they'll finally win a championship.

I would like Balkman on the spurs very much..high energy player..Great defensively

I just love new acquisition talk.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Sorry to put the kabash on that one too....

You can't package a trade exception with another player.



Really, it doesn't sound like a bad deal, but it just can't happen.

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Tony, thanks. I feel a bit dumb. I thought you could pair the two. The Spurs could take Chandler with their trade exception money if not for the fact that his 1 million contract would push them into tax land. And Bill Simmons thinks being an NBA GM is easy.

Setting aside specific players, do you think the Spurs will try to use their trade exception money to acquire a prospect or if they'd be willing to lose, say Elson, for nothing in return save someone else's trade money? If they did the latter, they'd be a position to make a semi-meaningful late season signing were someone attractive to become available.

Bring on the Malik and Chandler for Spurs players posts.

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Originally Posted by tav1

Tony, thanks. I feel a bit dumb. I thought you could pair the two. The Spurs could take Chandler with their trade exception money if not for the fact that his 1 million contract would push them into tax land. And Bill Simmons thinks being an NBA GM is easy.

Setting aside specific players, do you think the Spurs will try to use their trade exception money to acquire a prospect or if they'd be willing to lose, say Elson, for nothing in return save someone else's trade money? If they did the latter, they'd be a position to make a semi-meaningful late season signing were someone attractive to become available.

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They can't afford to lose Elson. He's the only athletic big on this team. His contributions may come in handy versus say, a Dallas, PHX or even Boston.

Chandler was supposedly Isiah's big draft coup - he loved the guy back then so I'm not sure why he's shopping him now. He is a bit shorter than a 'long 3' and played primarily power forward for DePaul, plus his attitude is a question. Still, some nice tools to develop.

Balkman may have hit his ceiling already. Who knows, but if I could get him into a Spurs' uniform without much fuss, I'd do it immediately. He has no outside game and may be without a position, but he can jump in and bang around a bit. Would I trade Elson or anybody currently on the team for him? No.

Carney is the closest to a 'long 3', but there are issues there as well. Also, I see no reason why they'd pick and go after any of these guys when they've told other SFs they've had, who are more or less the same, to hit the road (although DJ may be coming back).

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

They can't afford to lose Elson. He's the only athletic big on this team. His contributions may come in handy versus say, a Dallas, PHX or even Boston.

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Especially the last. He has bad blood - in the good way - with Kevin Garnett, right? They got into it some years ago in the playoffs. A slim chance Elson can affect his game, but there's a reason to keep him.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Does Elson for Chandler straight up even work?

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Hornets are wondering if TD for Chandler works......

I don't think a player like Chandler could be available for a second round pick. If Spurs wants him, they likely will have to give a first round pick.
And if Spurs are ready to give up a first round pick for a long 3, I rather see them giving it for a more nba ready player than Chandler.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't think a player like Chandler could be available for a second round pick. If Spurs wants him, they likely will have to give a first round pick.
And if Spurs are ready to give up a first round pick for a long 3, I rather see them giving it for a more nba ready player than Chandler.

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Maybe. But Zeke does not play within the same framework of logic as other GMs. That, and Chandler was probably a second round pick if not for Zeke giving him a premature promise.

I'm not sure what the Spurs are thinking long term, but judging from their cap situation and their appoarch over the last few months, it seems that are thinking of grooming a player or two in Austin. This helps against the system learning curve and is more affordable.

I'm with you. I'd rather see an NBA ready player. But I think the Spurs will patiently wait on a diamond in the rough--ala their approach with Marcus Williams. So, whereas James Jones is ideal, someone Austin-ready, like Chandler, is more likely. In other words, I think the Spus are bent on turning Austin into a bonafide farm team.

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Originally Posted by tav1

Maybe. But Zeke does not play within the same framework of logic as other GMs. That, and Chandler was probably a second round pick if not for Zeke giving him a premature promise.

I'm not sure what the Spurs are thinking long term, but judging from their cap situation and their appoarch over the last few months, it seems that are thinking of grooming a player or two in Austin. This helps against the system learning curve and is more affordable.

I'm with you. I'd rather see an NBA ready player. But I think the Spurs will patiently wait on a diamond in the rough--ala their approach with Marcus Williams. So, whereas James Jones is ideal, someone Austin-ready, like Chandler, is more likely. In other words, I think the Spus are bent on turning Austin into a bonafide farm team.

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I believe they can do both - next season. Acquire a bona fide FA like James Jones, yet still add and develop an emerging SF talent. Why wouldn't they? Especially if the notion of both Barry and Finley departing is true.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I believe they can do both - next season. Acquire a bona fide FA like James Jones, yet still add and develop an emerging SF talent. Why wouldn't they? Especially if the notion of both Barry and Finley departing is true.

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You're right. I was thinking in terms of a marginal trade prior to the Feb. deadline.

Speaking of which, and because you LOVE acquisition talk, Mutumbo has retired. I would be all for, attitude or not, Elson for Steve Francis, which does work. It's a lopsided deal, I know. But Francis is doing nothing for Houston, and they're not that good. They might be desperate enough for that trade to happen. Francis is owed less than Elson and is off the hook after the season. Win, win.

Damn the perfect long 3 IMO would be Travis Outlaw. To bad thats never happening. :depressed

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Originally Posted by tav1

You're right. I was thinking in terms of a marginal trade prior to the Feb. deadline.

Speaking of which, and because you LOVE acquisition talk, Mutumbo has retired. I would be all for, attitude or not, Elson for Steve Francis, which does work. It's a lopsided deal, I know. But Francis is doing nothing for Houston, and they're not that good. They might be desperate enough for that trade to happen. Francis is owed less than Elson and is off the hook after the season. Win, win.

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Careful. Be very, very careful what you wish for. :devil

At this point, Francis looks like damaged, or washed-up, goods. Dude has no lift. His shot is spotty and his sordid reputation as a whiner are bad enough. Moreover, can you really depend on the motivation of a guy who received a $30 mil buyout over this past summer? He may have something to prove. I just don't want him doing it here. If that's the case, what about Darius Miles? Guys that have have been chronic whiners and who have have a track record for undermining the fortunes of every franchise they've been on.

Bottom line is I wouldn't touch Francis, Miles or McGrady with a 10-ft sharp stick.

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Originally Posted by THE SIXTH MAN

Damn the perfect long 3 IMO would be Travis Outlaw. To bad thats never happening. :depressed

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i agree with you.... his length his shooting classy guy 4th quarter finisher.. dribbles... one of my most watched not named Bruce Bowen

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Careful. Be very, very careful what you wish for. :devil

At this point, Francis looks like damaged, or washed-up, goods. Dude has no lift. His shot is spotty and his sordid reputation as a whiner are bad enough. Moreover, can you really depend on the motivation of a guy who received a $30 mil buyout over this past summer? He may have something to prove. I just don't want him doing it here. If that's the case, what about Darius Miles? Guys that have have been chronic whiners and who have have a track record for undermining the fortunes of every franchise they've been on.

Bottom line is I wouldn't touch Francis, Miles or McGrady with a 10-ft sharp stick.

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Strike up a jazz band, because I've entered into stream of consciousness message board mode.

What's the asking price on Charlie Villanueva? With Bogut and Yi on board, he's the odd man out. Elson and his salaries match, but I bet the Bucks would want a first round pick to go along with the cap relief. In terms of skill set, he's a good fit for the Spurs and has another inexpensive year on his deal.

We had a shot at Outlaw last summer and opted for his teammate instead.

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Originally Posted by tav1

We had a shot at Outlaw last summer and opted for his teammate instead.

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We had a shot?

In an alternate dimension, perhaps.

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Originally Posted by tav1

We had a shot at Outlaw last summer and opted for his teammate instead.

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I wish they actually did go for him, but don't think Portland would have let him go.

The Spurs could have let Bonner go and not offered Udoka a contract--that would have given them a shot at Outlaw.

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Originally Posted by tav1

The Spurs could have let Bonner go and not offered Udoka a contract--that would have given them a shot at Outlaw.

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Which Portland would have matched.

By the way, I think Bonner + Udoka at 3.7 is better than Outlaw at, say 4.5. They did the right thing, but they could have made a run.

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Originally Posted by tav1

Tony, thanks. I feel a bit dumb. I thought you could pair the two. The Spurs could take Chandler with their trade exception money if not for the fact that his 1 million contract would push them into tax land. And Bill Simmons thinks being an NBA GM is easy.

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No worries...

The only reason I knew was because I too made that mistake once or twice. I think Bruno was the guy that set me straight on that. :toast

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Originally Posted by tav1

Setting aside specific players, do you think the Spurs will try to use their trade exception money to acquire a prospect or if they'd be willing to lose, say Elson, for nothing in return save someone else's trade money? If they did the latter, they'd be a position to make a semi-meaningful late season signing were someone attractive to become available.

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I wonder how much it would cost the Spurs to fill their 14th roster spot with a $1M contract? Probably twice that since it would likely push them over the lux tax threshold.

I think they could do it if they were willing to pay the price (2010 first rounder? + Lux tax), but I doubt the would go through with it.

And if they needed to shave off a few bucks from the roster, I could see them sending Elson out the door for a player that made marginally less....Mad Dog Madsen?

Still...at this point I see it much more likely that they stand pat.

No doubt they would have had to overpay for Outlaw. However with the stockpile of talent on that Portland roster, the Spurs should be able steal yet another FA swingman this coming offseason. I'm speaking of James Jones, whose scheduled for unrestricted FA, if I'm not mistaken.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Which Portland would have matched.

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I'm not convinced that's true. With Roy and Webster already on the roster and Pritchard thinking of cap space in 09 I don't think we could say for sure one way or the other. Look, I grant that Portland had the upper hand, but the Spurs could have taken a stab. It's not like there was a long line for Udoka. He signed for 1 million after all. He had no market.

Ironically, the guy on the Knicks roster that most fits the long 3/small ball 4 role the best is Jared Jeffries.

He's 6'10+, athletic, and plays pretty good D. Too bad he can't shoot worth anything and is signed to a $5M contract for the next few years....

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Ironically, the guy on the Knicks roster that most fits the long 3/small ball 4 role the best is Jared Jeffries.

He's 6'10+, athletic, and plays pretty good D. Too bad he can't shoot worth anything and is signed to a $5M contract for the next few years....

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Weren't the Spurs mildly interested in him prior to Isiah outbidding everyone by giving him the Knicks MLE?

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Originally Posted by tav1

I'm not convinced that's true. With Roy and Webster already on the roster and Pritchard thinking of cap space in 09 I don't think we could say for sure one way or the other. Look, I grant that Portland had the upper hand, but the Spurs could have taken a stab. It's not like there was a long line for Udoka. He signed for 1 million after all. He had no market.

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Roy plays a different position altogether and Webster was much more of an unknown...he's just started to put it together this year.

The guy I think hinged the Outlaw deal was his ever-injured, overpriced clone Darius Miles. Obviously you can see the Blazers are content to let Outlaw play and let Miles (and his $10M/yr contract) rot.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Roy plays a different position altogether and Webster was much more of an unknown...he's just started to put it together this year.

The guy I think hinged the Outlaw deal was his ever-injured, overpriced clone Darius Miles. Obviously you can see the Blazers are content to let Outlaw play and let Miles (and his $10M/yr contract) rot.

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And rot he should do. I wonder how many more years Miles has at that alarming salary rate.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Weren't the Spurs mildly interested in him prior to Isiah outbidding everyone by giving him the Knicks MLE?

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I'm sure they were. He is known for his defense, versatility (plays 2,3,&4), and being a good character guy.

If only he didn't cost so much, have so many years left on the deal (three after this one), and not have any semblence of a reliable jumpshot...

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Originally Posted by tav1

I'm not convinced that's true. With Roy and Webster already on the roster and Pritchard thinking of cap space in 09 I don't think we could say for sure one way or the other.

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Since Outlaw's negotiated deal goes through 09/10, I just don't see cap savings as an issue for them.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

And rot he should do. I wonder how many more years Miles has at that alarming salary rate.

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I was trying to find that out, and I think it has to be at least a couple more.

The real question is whether he asks for a buyout or retires, because there's NO way he's living out his entire contract with that team.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

I was trying to find that out, and I think it has to be at least a couple more.

The real question is whether he asks for a buyout or retires, because there's NO way he's living out his entire contract with that team.

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I can't see that happening either. No way Pritchard and McMillan will allow Miles to contaminate the environment and culture they're building up there. Paul Allen has the $$$ and he has already shelled out 30 mil for Steve Francis over the summer. However the big question is would he be willing to do the same for Miles?

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I'm speaking of James Jones, whose scheduled for unrestricted FA, if I'm not mistaken.

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It's in the stars.

Darius Miles, btw, will make $9 million each of the next two years. Not wholly a cap killer, but wasted money. They, however, are paying Steve Francis about $37 million between this year and next.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

It's in the stars.

Darius Miles, btw, will make $9 million each of the next two years. Not wholly a cap killer, but wasted money. They, however, are paying Steve Francis about $37 million between this year and next.

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I was under the impression the Blazers simply "cut a check" to Francis to the tune of a $30mil buyout.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I was under the impression the Blazers simply "cut a check" to Francis to the tune of a $30mil buyout.

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Probably right. I was going by what hoopshype has - they're counting cap hits, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

It's in the stars.

Darius Miles, btw, will make $9 million each of the next two years. Not wholly a cap killer, but wasted money. They, however, are paying Steve Francis about $37 million between this year and next.

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In terms of opportunity cost, his is the worst contract for a player still on the original team paying his contract.

Well, it's between him and Jerome James, but I'd give the edge to Miles because he gets paid more.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Probably right. I was going by what hoopshype has - they're counting cap hits, I believe.

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Yeah I remember the Blazers took a day or two after the trade to decide what they wanted to do with Francis. Instead of having him show up, they instead elected to cut him a check for $30mil. One hell of a parting gift.

Francis must have had a great summer because he came to Rockets camp out of shape.

Just to satiate my curiousity, does anyone know what Villanueva's situation is in Milwaukee? He's playing decent minutes and puts up pretty good numbers...but he can't play the 5 and must yield to Yi at some point lest the Chinese come after Larry Harris like he was Jack Bauer.

He's a good rebounder, can put the ball on the floor, scores in a handful of ways, and has range. I can't imagine a better 18-22 minute guy behind Duncan. Worlds better than Bonner, and at the same price. He and Ginobli would provide more than enough bench scoring. And he wouldn't detract from the Spurs' ability to sign another decent player this offseason. Is Villanueva "gettable" or beyond reach?

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Originally Posted by tav1

Just to satiate my curiousity, does anyone know what Villanueva's situation is in Milwaukee? He's playing decent minutes and puts up pretty good numbers...but he can't play the 5 and must yield to Yi at some point lest the Chinese come after Larry Harris like he was Jack Bauer.

He's a good rebounder, can put the ball on the floor, scores in a handful of ways, and has range. I can't imagine a better 18-22 minute guy behind Duncan. Worlds better than Bonner, and at the same price. He and Ginobli would provide more than enough bench scoring. And he wouldn't detract from the Spurs' ability to sign another decent player this offseason. Is Villanueva "gettable" or beyond reach?

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Bucks know he's a talent and will seek to get a decent role player in return for him.

As far as his fit with the Spurs, I would question whether he has the work ethic and mental fortitude to play for Pop. But that's just me...

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Bucks know he's a talent and will seek to get a decent role player in return for him.

As far as his fit with the Spurs, I would question whether he has the work ethic and mental fortitude to play for Pop. But that's just me...

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Quoting myself.... :rolleyes

Having said that, I wouldn't have thought the Spurs would go after a kid like JR Smith, who is also immensly talented but a bit of a head-case, yet they did a couple years back.

If Villanueva can be had on the cheap for an expiring contract like Elson (not sure if this works cap-wise) and a future draft pick, I think it would be tempting.

The Bucks have some abyssmal contracts -- Bobby Simmons or Dan Gadzuric, anyone? -- but Villaneuva is not one of them. They're looking to shed cap, so most likely would combine CV with one of the lousy contracts if they can.

I honestly hope the Spurs don't pick up anyone with their final roster spots this season. To me it just seems like a big distraction. Unless something crazy and unpredictable happens, (serious injury to one of the big three, or big name prospect suddenly waived) I'd rather stick it out with the team we have. We already have all the pieces needed. We know who we are. We are better than anyone when healthy. IMO there is no one available for what we have to offer who would make any significant contribution. Why risk our chemistry? We've been playing .500 ball lately, and I know the biggest reason for that is injuries have bumped us out of sync. However, we've also been swapping players quicker than a hollywood hooker, and I can't help but think that it has been a distraction and has added to the uncharacteristic poor play as of late. I say we stick to the game plan (the theoretical one in my mind)... Keep the current champs together, forget everyone else, win another title, and then retool this summer.

As I continue to think about the Spurs reloading at the wing, the contract I'd most like to see them move is Matt Bonner's. This season plus 6 million over the next two years is a lot of money to pay Bonner. To my mind, his money would be better spent on a other positions this summer, for a player like James Jones. This is especially the case with Splitter and Mahinmi waiting in the wings.

I know Bonner "works" in the system as Robert Horry's heir apparrent space creating 4--but I don't think Bonner quite works in that way. First, his defense doesn't approach Horry. Spurs fans are concerned about the wings, which is understandable, but the team's interior D has slipped a notch the last couple of seasons. It's still good, but could be improved by another legitimate shot blocker. Beyond this, I think the Spurs could spread the floor just as effectively with someone like Jones in a small ball set with Duncan at the 5. In fact, I think that line up would be more potent. In addition to the wing issue, the Bonner money would also go a long way in addressing the increasingly worrisome Vaughn stop-gap this summer.

The upcoming free agent market is great for ownership with the de facto hard cap in place--I think Bonner, for all his hustle and character--is probably more of an obstacle to the Spurs reloading than a help. So, if they do make a deal between now and deadline, I'd be happiest to see Bonner moved. His contract is modest, but combined with the other expiring deals it would provide the Spurs with much better free agent leverage.

I suspect the Trailblazers will make a legit, hard attemp to resign Jones this offseason, but, if they don't want to overspend prior to 2009, I wonder if they wouldn't be interested in Bonner. He fits into the sort of high character roster they are assembling and would be a good compliment to Oden.

Bonner's deal won't keep the Spurs from spending the money available to them and it would cost just as much if not more to replace him.

What I'm saying is don't replace him. He's not Robert Horry. Look for other ways to space the floor.

I'm sold on Bonner, myself. I was down on the signing before, thinking it was too expensive, relatively. But he busts his ass and brings some nice things off the bench.

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Originally Posted by tav1

What I'm saying is don't replace him. He's not Robert Horry. Look for other ways to space the floor.

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We still have to potentially replace two other big men this summer.

Why make it three?

And you're right, he's not Robert Horry. Right now for the regular season, he's a lot better than Horry.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

I'm sold on Bonner, myself. I was down on the signing before, thinking it was too expensive, relatively. But he busts his ass and brings some nice things off the bench.

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Compared to Horry....this is a no brainer. People need to jump off the Horry wagon. He's finished. Much thanks Rob, but at this point people, Bonner is 100 times more important than Horry....More active on defense, better rebounder by FAR!!! Look I'm not saying we couldn't do better than Bonner...BUT, he is a better player than Horry at this point. Period.