If you had to, whom, or who would it be?
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If you had to, whom, or who would it be?
Elson for Rebounds
Elson
for
Jakim Noah of the Bulls :D
elson for andy!
Did you hear Marv Albert after Pop talked at the start of the 4th quarter? Something about Pop saying in the next 2 weeks that if things hadn't improved changes were going to be made. Whether it was guys off the bench moving into the starting lineup or possible trades. Since when did they talk about trades?
marv albert?
I would not trade for Marv Albert.
CIA pop.
That means no ones leaving...
Sorry Kevin Harlin or whatever his name is. The comments were made right after Pop talked to Cheryl Miller at the start of the 4th quarter.
Hey, if a trade had been made before in our 2005 campaign, i don't have a problem with them looking for someone.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
who was doing the play by play tonight?
kevin harlan maybe
All I ask is for a Big man that plays like he has a pair defensively. Guards laugh when they see any of our bigs except duncan in the paint. Most specifically Oberto and Bonner.
Miss the playoffs last year?Quote:
All I ask is for a Big man that plays like he has a pair defensively. Guards laugh when they see any of our bigs except duncan in the paint. Most specifically Oberto and Bonner.
Yes lets put all of our eggs in the basket with a 37 year old on his last legs repeating his playoff 07' defensive performace. Good thinking.
If you don't notice the hole in our interior defense I don't know what games your watching.
Oberto and Bonner are 37?Quote:
Yes lets put all of our eggs in the basket with a 37 year old on his last legs repeating his playoff 07' defensive performace. Good thinking.
What team are you watching?
:lolQuote:
Mutombo is older and still block shots
Robert Horry is the only big man who played interior defense last year in the playoffs, besides Tim Duncan.
Oh wait ...now i remember...your right I forgot about the Oberto Bonner flying to the boards and blocking shots from the weak side every game. Your right Oberto/ Bonner block party 07'.
oberto can grab some reb
but pop play small ball in the 4th
The last 3 minutes Oberto was in the game. Sliding trying to take a charge by flopping on lebrons last bucket. I think he slid a good 10 feet. Instead of standing his ground and keeping his hands up like a man. He's been nothing but a back cut/ rebound tipping, walking And 1 for every guard in the NBA.
Yeah cause that shot blocking came in handy vs Cleveland and Utah.Quote:
Robert Horry is the only big man who played interior defense last year in the playoffs, besides Tim Duncan.
Oh wait ...now i remember...your right I forgot about the Oberto Bonner flying to the boards and blocking shots from the weak side every game. Your right Oberto/ Bonner block party 07'.
What shot blocking stud center is available for signing or trading?
Names please.
just the last 3 minutes?
give him the last 6 minutes
:bang a couple of offensive reb. by varejao over barry :bang
They laugh because it's so rare to see the Spurs bigs anywhere but on the bench. Most specifically Oberto and Elson.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2006/...als_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2006/...als_stats.html
Right again T-Park...Oberto exploded in the Blocking category. And every other category rather. So Oberto made open lay ups in the Jazz series YAY.
Your a fucking idiot :lolQuote:
The last 3 minutes Oberto was in the game. Sliding trying to take a charge by flopping on lebrons last bucket. I think he slid a good 10 feet. Instead of standing his ground and keeping his hands up like a man. He's been nothing but a back cut/ rebound tipping, walking And 1 for every guard in the NBA.
Lebron threw an elbow straight into his goddamn chest and knocked him over.
Quit talking out of your ass and watch the games.
Finley was third in blocks, so he should be the starting center. It's all so simple now!
remember how bowen and oberto double team lebron in the finals
and remember the 4th q of game 4 (2007 finals)
like tpark said
Waiting on the names.Quote:
Right again T-Park...Oberto exploded in the Blocking category. And every other category rather. So Oberto made open lay ups in the Jazz series YAY.
Show also his stats for game 4 the clinching game in Cleveland.
Sorry that his 20 blocks didn't show up or anything, he just made clutch baskets and played good defense.
Sorry theres no stats to show that genius.
BUT BUT HE DIDNT HAVE ANY BLOCKS!!!!Quote:
remember how bowen and oberto double team lebron in the finals
and remember the 4th q of game 4 (2007 finals)
:lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
It was his Lebron's head, yes it could have knocked him over. But you could tell Oberto's intention was to flop and take the charge, instead of standing his ground with his hands up like a man.
and get a foul charged him, and an and1.Quote:
But you could tell Oberto's intention was to flop and take the charge, instead of standing his ground with his hands up like a man
either that, or lebron still makes the shot, and he did nothing but stand there.
Genius :tu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemotivo
Yes y'all are right. It is so seldom to find a big man with the foot speed of Oberto to Double Team LeBron.
BTW
what is this horseshit
"Stand there like a man"
So is Manu less of a man when he flops and creates a foul?
(awaits onslaught)
In other wordsQuote:
It is so seldom to find a big man with the foot speed of Oberto to Double Team LeBron.
I lose arguement so I point out something insignificant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Any fan or any coach knows shit about basketball would rather have their big man stand his ground and contest a shot rather than look for flopping taking charges. At least thats my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
It means stand your fuckin ground like the 6'10 and 250 pounder you are and play like it. Not this pussy shit look for flops instead of standing your ground and contesting a shot.
And for Manu, Oberto is lucky he coat-tailed Manu's fire and heart the past 10 years. Without Manu, Oberto would still be playing for Tau Ceramonica.
About Manu's flopping.
Manu is one of the skinniest/weakest shooting guard besides Kevin Martin in the NBA. Yes he flops but thats the only thing he can do when rotating from the weakside defensively. I applaud him for that especially when he takes charges from bigger guys. Manu doesn't have the luxury of an 8 1/2 -9 foot reach like Oberto or a 6'10 250 pound frame. When Oberto rotates defensively teams point and laugh and get their And 1.
So Oberto played with Manu in Tau?Quote:
And for Manu, Oberto is lucky he coat-tailed Manu's fire and heart the past 10 years. Without Manu, Oberto would still be playing for Tau Ceramonica.
Quote:
Yes he flops but thats the only thing he can do when rotating from the weakside defensively. I applaud him for that especially when he takes charges from bigger guys. Manu doesn't have the luxury of an 8 1/2 -9 foot reach like Oberto. When Oberto rotates defensively teams point and laugh and get their And 1.
So in other words
Manu is god
everyone else is shit.
Shocking.
So in other words
Manu is god
everyone else is shit.
Shocking.[/QUOTE]
No in other words Oberto blows. (Outside of back cutting, making wide open lay ups, and tipping the ball out for an offensive rebound.)
Yeah Oberto blows.
Genius.
Just genius...
i trade for marcus camby
or some athletic center who can block shots and reb...tyson chandler....
why dont we trade for okafor
Why not trade for Dwight Howard?
Oberto is nothing better than a 3rd or 4th big man in the rotation. He should be coming off the bench splitting time with Horry.
Oberto is wildly inconsistent on the defensive end but for some odd reason people love him.I mean i always remembered our defense being centered around funneling guys to our bigs, but with Oberto on the floor that just turns into easy points. I don't know about you guys but I don't like watching teams run lay up drills and then get free throws on top of it. Don't get me wrong I still think we can win it all with him as our center, but our offense has to be firing on all cylinders. I guess I would just prefer to play it safe and try and package Berry and Elson and maybe even a pick for a guy like Kurt Thomas.
Yeah Kurt Thomas the blocking machine :lmaoQuote:
I guess I would just prefer to play it safe and try and package Berry and Elson and maybe even a pick for a guy like Kurt Thomas.
Quoted again for someone wanting an interior shot blocker and wanting to trade for Kurt Thomas :lmaoQuote:
I guess I would just prefer to play it safe and try and package Berry and Elson and maybe even a pick for a guy like Kurt Thomas.
Why don't you quote me where I said hes a shot blocker? Hes a good interior defender who plays good post defense and keeps his hands up. He doesn't allow lay up lines and unlike Oberto he can pull down a rebound. Oh yeah he can also hit a mid range jumper unlike Mr. And 1 whose range consists of a 2 ft lay up.
I guess its comical to trade your 3rd wing and a big man who contributes nothing for a guy who is better than our starting center.
Don't you dare argue with T-park the great. No posts= no game.
Kurt Thomas would be an improvement over Oberto for sure. His on the ball defense in the post is superior to Oberto's and he stands his ground and at least contests shots to some extent. Has a better midrange shot and I imagine he can make open lay ups.
no doubt a very poor/laughable choice as far as shot blockers go, but he still beats the shorts off oberto (1.2 bpg on 25 mpg vs 0.3 bpg on 20 mpg this season; 0.8 bpg vs 0.3 bpg career). not that thats too hard to do though.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
yeah, whats up with oberto flopping? what a puss.
Is this the same stud interior defender who Parker would blow by for layup after layup?
Wanna quote me where I said that?Quote:
Don't you dare argue with T-park the great. No posts= no game.
C'mon man. That was an flop.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Take the homer glasses off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnerDynasty
For once an unbiased opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Um I believe Parker blew by everyone last year, if I'm not mistaken. Didn't he get Finals MVP? I'm pretty sure Parker can blow by anyone in the NBA when he's injury free. Then again I may have ridiculous opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
saying Oberto is a stiff is pretty Fing rediculous yes.Quote:
Then again I may have ridiculous opinions.
Justifying Manu flopping then turning around and giving some BS thing about Oberto flopping being bad is rediculous yes.
If I were to choose one, I would say...Barry for James Posey. Posey is a good defensive player and he has a shot from the outside. He's can also be physical on defense because he has a big build.I think posey is tailored made for the spurs. He's,first of all defensive minded.Second, he only shoots when necessary (He's like, bruce bowen). Lasstly, he's scrappy (like manu). A junk yard dog!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_XX
Not that I don't like barry. He's also a great player, he can shoot from the outside and can also do defense. But to get something , you must give something. He's the only guy in the bench ,except finley, that is enticing enough to the other teams. Boston , can really benefit from barry's three point shooting. That will give them a fourth option on offense (besides the big three). What you think guys? fair deal?
So wait a second, just because K. Thomas gave up some lay ups to one of the better finishers in the NBA you dont think hes is a good defender? I guess by that logic you dont think that highly of Duncan, because he gets dunked on at least once a week
same logic you guys use for Oberto.Quote:
So wait a second, just because K. Thomas gave up some lay ups to one of the better finishers in the NBA you dont think hes is a good defender? I guess by that logic you dont think that highly of Duncan, because he gets dunked on at least once a week
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Oberto is a stiff. He's should be nothing more than the 4th big in our rotation. You tell me what he brings besides back cutting, making open lay ups, and tipping the ball for offensive rebounds .5 times a game.
Oberto is a big man. Big men who flop defensively are pussies.
I'd take Rasho back for Oberto's salary in a heartbeat.
Obviously nothing you know far more about the game than Gregg Popovich who thinks Oberto is a hell of a player.Quote:
You tell me what he brings besides back cutting, making open lay ups, and tipping the ball for offensive rebounds .5 times a game.
But if Manu does it, its GOLD!!!Quote:
Oberto is a big man. Big men who flop defensively are pussies.
GENIUS!!
:lol
name me the games Rasho had like Oberto's in the playoffs please?Quote:
I'd take Rasho back for Oberto's salary in a heartbeat.
Stats also to back em up, cause stats tell the whole story.
Pop has also said Beno is a hell of a player.
Manu has no choice when rotating defensively to take a charge. He's a fraile stick. He can't stand his ground and contest shots like big men should.
:lmao
Thats the comeback
"Well well well pop said Beno is a hell of a player"
Pardon me
BTW
when Oberto put 21 and 13 on the Nuggets
what does that say about Marcus Camby?
Kind of different wouldnt you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Kurt Thomas was giving up lay ups with zero help side defense on the Phoenix Suns who pay zero attention to defense. Also most of that series he was defending Duncan.
Oberto is playing alongside Tim Duncan and inside Poppavich's system that preaches defense.
Good comparison though.
\Quote:
Manu has no choice when rotating defensively to take a charge. He's a fraile stick. He can't stand his ground and contest shots like big men should
God what apuss
:lmao @ spelling Pop's nameQuote:
Oberto is playing alongside Tim Duncan and inside Poppavich's system that preaches defense.
congrats on botching that one there.
Whatever, you guys can bag on Oberto all you want, but where were you guys earlier this year when he was busting out double doubles left and right saying he is a stiff?
question
Oberto did flop. But it was also offensive. If not for running into Oberto, right before that for pushing with off arm on Bowen. But you aren't going to get that call that often.
Anyway, the Spurs game wasn't about a flop, or TP's missed free thows or Manu's miss at the end, it was about playing like crap for the majority of the game. If you keep getting down big, you have to expend all your energy crawling back. You could tell Tony/Manu were running out of gas at the end.
Anyway, Spurs Big 3 were pretty decent today. The rest of the team sucked though.
Write down all the excuses or complaints you want.
"We won't win with this old team."
"It's only one loss."
"Our bigs outside Tim suck."
"4 Rings!!"
blahblahblah
The Spurs aren't a very cohesive unit right now. Blame it on too many injuries not giving them enough time on the court together. Blame it on not enough trust in the role players, leading to too much one-on-one play from Manu and Tony. Blame it on Duncan not trying that hard on D.
I'm not that worried. Last year in January, I didn't like the Spurs team and I worried/complained a lot. I hated our bigs and I thought Barry should be dealt. Pop and the Spurs f'd me over and won a Championship. So apparently they know what they are doing. :lol
Pop will call them soft. The team will respond. They'll go on a 10 game winning streak. They'll drop a couple games to crap teams. And then we'll roll the dice and head into the playoffs and see what happens.
gotta love when people go after spelling on a message board. Forgive me master of the English language,I didn't take the time to Google the correct spelling,It made my whole arguement insignificant.
Where was i when Oberto was pulling down double double? I wasn't bitching about him because he was actually doing his job. Forgive me for not having faith in a 3rd year player who so far has been inconsistent at best. When someone not named Tim, Tony, Manu, or Bruce isn't performing I'd prefer to have a backup plan. I don't want to go into the playoffs with a glaring weakness
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Pop always praises his players at one time or another to some extent. There is that mutual respect no matter how much PT a player gets or how he performs. You hardly ever hear Pop dog one his players in the media. Just because he has said Oberto and Beno are hell of a player doesn't justify that they are superb. Yes Oberto had a 2 -4 good games in the playoffs. Overall in the end hes nothing better than a 4th big in the rotation. Just an average big guy.( 5 points 5 boards .2 blocks in 20 mpg.)
And that game says nothing about Marcus Camby. Camby is a proven defensive rebounding blocking machine thats why he got DPOY award last year.
Well if your a Spurs fan I would think you would at least know how to spell the coach's name rightQuote:
gotta love when people go after spelling on a message board. Forgive me master of the English language,I didn't take the time to Google the correct spelling,It made my whole arguement insignificant.
don't get so butt hurt.
So, when he plays bad trade him, when hes playing goodQuote:
Where was i when Oberto was pulling down double double? I wasn't bitching about him because he was actually doing his job.
silence
the epitome of a "hater"
I don't think you have a right to ever question anyone's spelling. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by T Park
2-4 games in the playoffs?Quote:
Yes Oberto had a 2 -4 good games in the playoffs. Overall in the end hes nothing better than a 4th big in the rotation. Just an average big guy.( 5 points 5 boards .2 blocks in 20 mpg.)
Your shitting me...
He was fucking huge in every win they had.
Sorry but as you will someday learn kiddo, players do alot of things that matter that don't show up in the stat sheet.
A rotation that forces a bad shot.
A screen under the basket that opens up an open three for Bowen in the corner.
Learn to watch the games, Oberto was a stud damn near all playoffs long.
I don't think Sequ has a right to question my fanhood yet nothings said about that.Quote:
I don't think you have a right to ever question anyone's spelling
You and Sequ have both quit on your team over and over. You are both good fans, who both talk out of your asses sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Who's oberto?
Spurs fans pretending to be Cavs fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by LBJ dunks on Duncan
New low?
Did i say trade him? Nope I said we should try and get an upgrade and move him to the bench. I mean we have depth at the wing with Manu, Finley, Bowen, Berry, and Udoka. Plus we have Elson who looks to have moved into the Malik and Nazr doghouse. So what would you rather do, Stand Pat or try and upgrade the team by moving two guys who are expendable?
I didn't realize shuffling the team around was so personal to you. Outside of Tim, Manu, Tony, and Bowen I really don't care if we move players as long as it makes us a better team. I bet you were one of those people who cried when Malik was traded to New York.
If wanting to make the Spurs a better basketball team makes me a hater then so be it. I'd rather be that then some blind fan who will follow an inconsistent player off a cliff because you want to remember some of the good games he'd had.
TP for center..... he's a league leader in points in the paint and he shoots free throws as a center .
:downspin: :rolleyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I'm not firing up the flares yet. I was only stating Oberto's lack of cahoones. There is a hole in our interior defense that I wish our management could help via trade,but realistically i know its probably not going to happen. When it's all said and done in May and godwillingly June its going to come down to the Horry's interior Defense, The play of the Big 3, Injuries, and we will need two of our other wings to be on from three. What saddens me is when its said and done we are going to rely on 37 year old Horry to play like he did in 07 defensively for us to be where we want to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
lol WELL PUT SSCARRJ
Nope I applauded the trade 100%Quote:
I bet you were one of those people who cried when Malik was traded to New York.
but of course when one assumes....
No, Im just realistic.Quote:
If wanting to make the Spurs a better basketball team makes me a hater then so be it. I'd rather be that then some blind fan who will follow an inconsistent player off a cliff because you want to remember some of the good games he'd had.
You cannot and will not acquire a better center than Fabricio Oberto in today's league with what the Spurs have without screwing up the chemistry of this team.
period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
You could sign PJ Brown and move Oberto to the bench or perhaps trade him for a pack of skittles. I.E Scola deal
Maybe "will not" is true. But "cannot" is crazy. It's possible to trade without f'ing up your team. Remember when everyone said Detroit destroyed their team chemistry by trading for Rasheed.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Yeah just like in the finals when Horry hardly played.Quote:
When it's all said and done in May and godwillingly June its going to come down to the Horry's interior Defense,
Cannot.Quote:
Maybe "will not" is true. But "cannot" is crazy. It's possible to trade without f'ing up your team. Remember when everyone said Detroit destroyed their team chemistry by trading for Rasheed.
There isn't one single center available that will become the new starter.
Oberto is a solid, smart, good player who fits the starting center.
There isn't a center out there thats gonna walk through that door that will supplant him.
Period.
Seeing as hes retired that would be tough.Quote:
You could sign PJ Brown and move Oberto to the bench or perhaps trade him for a pack of skittles. I.E Scola deal
Yes, trade a clutch, big game center in Oberto for nothing.
More genius!!!
Spurs could have won against the cavs with Bonner at the 5. Cavs were the worst opponent Spurs faced the whole playoffs. Horry's interior defense during the duration of the previous three series was vital to the Spurs success last year.
Okay, Mr. Cocky Asshole Authority on basketball.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Get off the forum and come back and read your posts to see what a prick you are being.
Your obnoxious level is ridiculous. Stop talking down to people in everyone of your obnoxious posts.
Remember when you turned over a new leaf at your surgery and you were going to start treating people better? How long did that last? Two weeks?
You are an obnoxious windbag.
:lol
Wow, someone else does it and its ok.
The hypocrisy continues.
I gave an opinion.
Sorry that opinions aren't wanted anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
I was making fun of the Scola deal, you oblivious spurs homer. I wouldn't trade Oberto for nothing obviously. And P.J Brown hasn't retired. Call me crazy but i still wish pop would give Elson some consistent minutes for a 10 game span. Elson gets lost time to time but hes not looking for flops defensively thats for sure.
"CANNOT"Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
"PERIOD"
No, you didn't offer an opinion. You talk down to everyone. And everyone is sick of it. Mainly me. You don't have any respect for anyone. You treat everyone like you know more than them. News flash. You don't.
"Oberto....the prettiest ugliest player alive" - greg popovichQuote:
Originally Posted by LBJ dunks on Duncan
Amen, i'm glad you said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
1. Sam Cassell
2. Ben Wallace
3. Eddy Curry
4. Zach Randolph
5. Sun Ming Ming =>
What was the original question??? I'm sorry I got distracted by all the Oberto bashing and defending. The funny thing is, no one is even saying to trade Oberto.
I find it funny that lost in the fray is the crappy play of Francisco Elson, Matt Bonner, and Robert Horry.
Truth be told, NONE of the Spurs big men (outside of Duncan) inspire any confidence going forward.
Personally, I think Oberto is the most consistent and intelligent, but you can only really count on him to play 20-25 MPG because he gets in foul trouble. And I guess you can hope in a resurgent Robert Horry giving it his one last hurrah. Other than that, the Spurs are pretty much screwed.
So here's the question....
If the Spurs make a trade, will they try to add another big man that would hopefully bring a solid presence, or will the try to add another swingman and resort to going into the playoffs with the small-ball strategy?
Either way, I think it's apparent that something has to be done. Based on the amount of minutes Pop is employing the small-ball lineup, it is clear he's lost a great deal of confidence in his frontline role players.
Bottom Line: Oberto is not the issue...the entire frontcourt outside of Duncan is the issue.
So getting back to the original question I would say to trade one of the frontcourt players (preferably Elson) for cap space and try to pick up PJ Brown, or for another swingman (Rasual Butler?) and concede to go small-ball.
though i dont like tpark very much, i'm going to defend him here-
its easy to bag on players for a single play- a missed free throw, a late rotation, a botched layup, an unecessary foul etc etc. But a game of basketball isnt one play, and a season is much more than that. there is a reason the playoffs are 7 game series.
on top of that, NBA bigs dont grow on trees and the salary cap makes it even more difficult to get them. the list of good defensive NBA bigs making less than the MLE has probably less than 5 entries. you cant expect the same production from a 3mill a year player than you do a 10 mill a year player. the less money, the more specialized their role, and oberto's role is indeed specialized. the only guy who we might be able to snag for oberto-level money is pj brown, but brown and oberto are practically the same player.
on top of that, learning the spurs system takes time and in all likelihood any acquisition would be a step back in the short term.
finally, as phat tony mentioned, all of our bigs are playing pretty crap, and I would include duncan in that group. the only way cheap bigs like horry, oberto, elson, bonner are going to look decent in this league is with duncan playing well, especially on the defensive end.
so, to summarize, oberto is a limited player, but he has his strengths, and shotblocking isnt one of them, so its a waste of time to expect that from him. replacing him is difficult and probably not a good idea at this point in the season. his play isnt going to make or break the season; there is a reason Duncan is the team's MVP.
I hardly think Fabs was "looking to flop".Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Tell you what. Give me 10 feet to build the speed, stand there with your hands in the air while I lower my head into your stomach at 40 mph, and when you go flying backwards on your ass, tell me you were "just flopping". It was such an obvious call. Yet the refs stood there mute.
I suppose Tony, when he went in, took it across the face so hard he couldn't get up off the floor, was "just floppin" too. And BTW, that one was obvious and wasn't called either.
I hate to let you in on a secret, but there IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNBIASED OPINION.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres