Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by TMTTRIO
You know lately though it just seems that Manu really hasn't been bringing the same energy from the bench right from the beginning that has made our bench successful in the last few years and the reason Manu went to the bench in the first place. He also has just seemed like he's more frustrated than anything so maybe it's time to start him.
I don't think the bench is the main problem right now...I honestly think it's the starting five at the moment...
In today's game, Manu got 29 pts off the bench. It seems to actually have worked lately, however the problem is that when the starters are not doing well, the bench is not enough to save the game...
In the prior games, Tony was healthier and had amazing games, so the wins were a lot easier, because the bench did not have to do everything...
I think Manu is frustrated with how the Spurs are playing in general, I also see that Timmy is upset too...
As for energy level, I also think it has to do with Manu's finger injury...yet, he actually seems to be one of the few players playing really good at the moment, with any type of passion at all.
Whatever the issue, the line ups definitely need to be looked at right now...before it gets a lot worse.
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by Ice009
I don't care if we've only scored 12 points if we're able to hold the other team down to 10 points when Manu comes in, that will already be a huge difference.
SPURS win on DEFENSE.
But their defense and getting stops, hasn't really been the problem for the most part.
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by ManuTim_best of Fwiendz
But their defense and getting stops, hasn't really been the problem for the most part.
I think by the time TP is back to his usual self, the Spurs will be in a lot better shape. Right now Tim/Manu/Tony all average 19 points per game, the Spurs really need TP's points...I just hope he takes better care of himself. He looks a bit unhealthy. Is there anything that can be done about the ankle?
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by greenleo
I think by the time TP is back to his usual self, the Spurs will be in a lot better shape. Right now Tim/Manu/Tony all average 19 points per game, the Spurs really need TP's points...I just hope he takes better care of himself. He looks a bit unhealthy. Is there anything that can be done about the ankle?
WTF? the big three might just be averaging the most they ever have together. What more do you want from TP, Manu, Tim? You want them to all average 30 points per game and keep getting 2 points per game from everyone else? Right now the role players have to step up their offense, and the WHOLE TEAM needs to step up their defense.
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
With Parker hurt it is time to start Manu and bring Udoka off the bench first, then Finley. Our offense has been stagnet as of late in the first quarter because of Parkers inability to penetrate like he usually can.
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
I think it's time to try something radical. I don't want the big three to start because when that happens Manu becomes essentially useless because Pop either calls every play for Tim or Tony just tries to get himself going. The whole reason Pop went to Manu on the bench was because we had this stretch of like 6 or 7 straight games where he checked out at the 6 min mark of the 1st quarter with 1 or 0 shot attempts and the bench was also struggling big time.
Putting Manu to the bench was a brilliant move because he ignited the second unit, he was the one who was already most used to playing by himself out of anyone in the big three anyway, and it took forever for teams to adjust to the tactic, especially if Brent was out there with him. Really, this move took us to the 4th title as much as anything did.
However, now teams have made the adjustment and our starters are getting killed out there. It's not helping any that Tony is hurt and really struggling, Finley is off, Bowen's shot is MIA and Oberto is back to his '06 level of effectiveness. Tim can't do it alone, yet we're expecting him to. What's the most disappointing is that after such a brilliant start, Tony's point guard skills seem to have abandoned him and his passing has been very ineffective of late while his turnovers are up. He's not setting up anybody for open shots.
So my idea is to switch Tony and Manu's roles. Let Manu start with Tim and Vaughn, hopefully we'll clamp down on the opposing point guard a bit and not let other teams set up their offenses quite so easily and Tim and Manu can pick and roll people to death and maybe get Bowen wide open looks.
Then bring Tony off the bench to be the sparkplug, the energizer, and let him just concentrate on scoring, going hard to the basket. His change of pace over Vaughn would kill 2nd units. I think it would take teams maybe 10, 15 games to adjust to this tactic and we need all the help we can get.
Right now it seems that Parker is overwhelmed by all his responsibilities, his minutes, his role, having to set others up but look for own shot as well, when to drive, when to pass, and his head is swimming. His defense has gone to shit, he seems always tired, and I just don't see that same burst or energy from him. Giving him a different role might wake him up and bring the old Tony back.
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by Ice009
WTF? the big three might just be averaging the most they ever have together. What more do you want from TP, Manu, Tim? You want them to all average 30 points per game and keep getting 2 points per game from everyone else? Right now the role players have to step up their offense, and the WHOLE TEAM needs to step up their defense.
WOW! LOL...read my post again...I think you misunderstood the whole thing!
I said that each one of the Big Three averages 19 pts per game in this season(that's amazing)...so when TP is not healthy enough, he doesn't get his regular/usual 19 pts per game...for today, he had 5 points. The loss for today was like by 6 points...so imagine when TP is back to his hundred percent, that will add up to his 19 points, hence the winning will be so much easier...
The Big Three have been amazing before the injuries happened. Absolutely terrific. My point was that in the loss today, the 19 points that TP usually gets is what was missing, due to the ankle issue/etc...
So please don't jump to conclusions. I never insult anyone on the Spurs team, I'm the fan of the whole team...
Obviously, the role players need to step up. I've probably wrote that already in multiple threads...That's the most obvious thing...
Re: Maybe it's time to start Manu
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Originally Posted by roycrikside
I think it's time to try something radical. I don't want the big three to start because when that happens Manu becomes essentially useless because Pop either calls every play for Tim or Tony just tries to get himself going.
What about the 2005 playoff run? Ginobili had his best games as a starter. The team dynamics really haven't changed much since then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roycrikside
The whole reason Pop went to Manu on the bench was because we had this stretch of like 6 or 7 straight games where he checked out at the 6 min mark of the 1st quarter with 1 or 0 shot attempts and the bench was also struggling big time.
Eh, the bigger reason is the bench sucks without him and becomes perhaps the best in the league with him. The second biggest reason is it makes it easier for Pop to ensure that there are always at least one fresh member of the Big Three on the court at all times. The third biggest reason is it allows Ginobili's relatively limited minutes to include more vital minutes instead of the trash minutes at the beginning of each half.
The "Manu not getting enough touches" angle is further down the list. I think it's more that Manu just gets to touch the ball every time up the court when he plays with the scrubs. If he starts, he gets regular starting shooting guard amount of touches. With the second unit, he gets point guard level amount of touches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roycrikside
Putting Manu to the bench was a brilliant move because he ignited the second unit, he was the one who was already most used to playing by himself out of anyone in the big three anyway, and it took forever for teams to adjust to the tactic, especially if Brent was out there with him. Really, this move took us to the 4th title as much as anything did.
I've long been a proponent of Manu coming off the bench going all the way back to the beginning of the 2003-04 season. It's always made a lot of sense to me and I'm happy Pop has finally settled on it. Ginobili off the bench makes him a huge weapon and it doesn't affect his game negatively at all. I never saw a reason why he should start.
That said, I think Ginobili should start for the time being. And I say that as the world's biggest Ginobili-off-the-bench fan in existence.
While bringing Parker off the bench is a decent idea, I don't agree with it. Just put Ginobili into the starting lineup a la 2005. Parker doesn't strike me as a player who would thrive off the bench. I don't think he'd sulk or have an attitude about it -- I just don't think it fits.
That's especially true with this injured version of Parker. If I thought it was a lack of motivation behind Parker's struggles, I'd be all for drastic measures. But I don't think it's motivation related ... he just doesn't have his legs right now for whatever reason.
Without Parker being able to be aggressive offensively, the offense on a whole is really hurting. Parker is the best player on the team at penetrating and kicking it to three-point shooters. A big reason why the Spurs can't hit a three to save their lives most games is because Parker isn't able to drive and kick right now. Bowen, for example, makes his offensive living by hitting threes on assists from Parker. (In fact, historically an amazingly high percentage of Bowen's baskets come off of assists from Parker. That duo led the league in that category last year or the year before.)
With Parker hurting, Bowen and Finley become much more useless on the offensive end. That's why recently it's been basically just Duncan and four players watching him to start games. I say you just move Ginobili back to the starting lineup until Parker finds his legs. Having a weak bench is better than the starters sucking. The Spurs used to have the best of both worlds ... now they don't.
