Printable View
a half eaten three-week old sandwich found between the couch pillows.
Dude is TERRIBLE.
I'd be inclined to throw in Finley, Bowen, Horry and Oberto with the way they've been playing but each of them has actually contributed to the Spurs significantly in the past. I trust them to turn it on when it matters.
freakin trade a lot of people at this point!
He played better than Horry and Oberto tonight. I'll never understand the Elson hate on this board.
Actually Elson was halfway decent tonight.
That foul he got doubling Boozer was absolutely atrocious.
Did he play better than Horry in the 2005 finals or better than Oberto in 2007?Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
Sure, Oberto and especially Horry are struggling....but they've earned the right for us to have some patience and let them work it out like the smart, capable veterans they are.
Elson has earned nothing....
Elson was better than Oberto today. But that isn't saying much. In general Elson sucks. Hopefully Oberto and Horry step up because I don't think you should expect much from Elson on a regular basis.
No, I don't understand the Elson hate either. He was solid last year when we won our 4th, and, need I remind you, he is the speaker of one of the all-time great quotes -- the one where he called KG gay in front of the media. I'm sure KG's response involved justifiable homicide.
I'm more upset about letting Ely and Scola get away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
You're right lets just sit back and wait for 35 year old guys to fight father time so they can attempt to recapture old glory.... sounds a lot like what we did with NVE.
Elson played an OK game tonight and it was a step in the right direction. But lets just shit on the guy because he didnt make a few lay ups and tip a few balls out in a sweep vs the Cavs.
He wasn't solid last year. He was bad. He averaged 5 and 4 or something like that and played horrible, horrible D. Our players spend half their energy yelling at him or waving at him to move out of the way when he's on the court. He's 75% of the time either in the wrong place on offense or missing a rotation on D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quixote
Horry hasn't let the Spurs down in the past, and besides....you're advocating that ELSON take his minutes?Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
I don't care if Horry is shooting below 20%, he still makes the defensive hustle plays and does all the intangible things that Elson has never done and will never do.
To be honest, I'd prefer Bonner over Horry....if he were athletic and could play defense. But that ain't happening either, so you deal with what you got....or better yet, you DEAL what you got.
Get rid of Elson and get some fresh blood in here.
Has the standard really fallen that low that Elson's play tonight was considered good?
17 minutes of play-- 3 fouls and 1 rebound... :elephant
Get rid of Elson for who?
Making trades just isn't that easy.
Honestly I thought Horry looked pretty damn good tonight.
His defense and other intangibles were in full force.
I think Horry's shot will be dropping soon and is gonna start showing his turnaround in the stat sheet so that Spurs fans can finally recognize it.
Do you realize how many players are available around the $3M salary range?Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
I'd give you a list, but there's already one of most likely available players in the "time to trade" thread I think.
And it would be hard NOT to get more value when trading away Elson...as you can tell by my first post.
damn.. the spurs just missed out on webber...
Elson's pretty much a liability on bad nights, and a borderline liability on GOOD nights.
He'll always negate whatever his athleticism provides with his mental lapses. The only things he is good for are, that midrange jumper and dunks.
I don't think he's improved at all as a help defender or at setting up screens this year.
I don't know what we could get for him, if we're might have to end up sacrificing "a big" for just any player of value. I don't know if we want to change up our center position needs right now when we've got two other bigs coming in to prepare next year.
.....maybe we'll see Manhinmi get some minutes finally with Elson's poor development??
Whats sad is the that the standard has fallen that low.I actually got a bit excited when I see Utah players think twice about going up at Elson, that doesn't happen with Oberto in the game. I'm used to seeing Oberto pat guys on the back as they go up to score on him.
All 3 of the posts have been terrible this year but seems like Elson has had the least opportunity. But i guess its a sin here to say anything even even remotely positive about Elson
You can say all you want, "Elson sucks, lets trade him." The problem is, Elson is bad. Who wants to trade for bad players?
if was the spurs
trade for omeka okafor, give charlotte our expirings
then charlotte can go after guys like deng or gordon...i dunno whats there team salary is like atm, but im sure they are under the cap
I beg to differ about the comment above...Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
Fabricio Oberto was playing EXCELLENT team ball with the Spurs just a couple months ago before the injuries to the big 3 took place. He had great chemistry with them, was finding holes in the defense, and was efficient on offense.
I think Oberto is too slow and is a foul-magnet for some reason with the refs, but his defense is not necessarily bad.
I just disagree with your assessment. Oberto has been slumping lately and hasn't been able to find his rythm, but who has?
Give Oberto a break....he was CARRYING this frontline alongside Duncan for the first 3 months of the season.
Doubtful anyone wants to trade for Elson because of his skill....but lots of teams could use the $3M of cap space he'll bring this off-season when he comes off the books.Quote:
Originally Posted by O.J. Mayonnaise
A team like Seattle, with Damien Wilkins owed over the next couple years and apparently not in the future plans, would be a viable trade partner....
Kori, I would like to say that TIMVP is one lucky man!
What does getting another wing do for us? What good comes from another wing sitting on the bench next to Udoka furious asking god why jacque vaughn, horry, and finley are all out there at the same time?
Elson wasn't very good tonight.
He had one easy dunk (that was all Manu, he deserves the credit for it) and he hit one jumper.
Other than that he got scored on, turned the ball over, and took a quick shot or two.
His +/- number tonight is fool's gold.
He is what he is, a 3rd string center who if you give minutes to will get 5 & 5.
I think we all know a guy in New York who is probably thinking of how he can add Elson to his lineup for the low price of only 6 years, $55 mil.Quote:
Originally Posted by O.J. Mayonnaise
This is the reason I didn't bring up specific trades in the first place...fucking naysayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
Dude, accept the fact that ANYTHING is better than Elson.
Oh good god, not Wilkins...Quote:
with Damien Wilkins owed over the next couple years and apparently not in the future plans, would be a viable trade partner....
Who are the Spurs going to get for Elson? Mark Madsen? Elson is the kind of guy you throw in to a trade to make salaries match. I suppose the Spurs could do that if they want to eat someone else's bad contract for a few years. Otherwise, the Spurs are stuck with Elson.
I knew you'd chime in....read the last post on the first page and stop being such a dick.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
I don't accept the fact that trading for the sake of making a trade is a good option.
saying not wilkins is being a dick?Quote:
I knew you'd chime in....read the last post on the first page and stop being such a dick
Uh ok :lol
Anything?Quote:
Dude, accept the fact that ANYTHING is better than Elson.
So Sean Marks would be better?
A gatorade and two towels … That will help the team. :rolleyes
Let me work it out for you (and T Park) then.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SScarrJ
Let's assume that the Spurs trade Elson for wing player. That wing player is added to a list of potential rotation candidates that have yet to really solidify their position on the depth chart. The player competes with Barry, Finley, and Udoka for minutes in the rotation and one in the group even might steal some minutes from the PF rotation (Horry, Bonner) in small-ball sets.
If that wing player succeeds in taking minutes away from the other rotation guys it means that he's earned it and you're putting the best group of players that give you best chance to succeed.
If that wing player gets beat out the Spurs lose NOTHING! Elson gives zero defense and is a pathetic rebounder. In fact, his only redeeming qualities are that he runs fast and can occasionally hit a 15ft shot....something a wing player could EASILY duplicate.
Again, I don't see what there is to lose no matter what position the swapped player occupies on the court.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...nnis_green.jpg
Elson is who I thought he was.
It was the first two times you said it.Quote:
Was that simple enough for you?
Even the third time above when you said it like a dick. (see I can throw around cool insults too)
Once again, what team will take him on?
IMO, none.
You can disagree with that and thats fine.
Im just bringing a bit of reality.
I start by suggesting the Spurs trade Elson...Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
You retort by saying "but trading is hard"...
I come back with a non-specific example at first because I know naysayers like you are going to attack the specific example I give....
Then, against my better judgement, I throw out a specific scenario...
And just like I thought, you and this other dude with a hard-on for proving me wrong, harp on the specific example....you by saying "oh god not wilkins".
All the while I'm just trying to make a GENERAL point that Elson sucks, should be traded, and there are actually opportunities where the Spurs might benefit if he is traded.
That's all.
Thought about removing that end sentence the moment I posted it....just got pissed.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
only if the players are on similar deals. if said player makes more than elson, it probably pushes the spurs into the luxury tax, costing them ~3 mil (on top of the salary owed to said player). and thats only for this year. a player with a deal similar to, say wilkens, ends up on the books for 2 more years after this one. so if thats the case, the spurs end up paying 10+ mil for that nothing you speak of.Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
so there is risk involved here. its a monetary one rather than a production one, but just because its not our money doesnt mean we should overlook that.
Seriously though, if anybody wants Elson and his contract, they can have him. Signing Elson was dumb to begin with. Now it's actually hurting the Spurs.
While watching the game tonight I remembered how I said during that offseason if the Spurs are going to be cheap and go with Elson, the Spurs might as well be cheap and sign Jarron Collins. Collins pretty much sucks but he is way better than Elson.
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I'm all for trading Elson. He's useless. It's just that the Spurs can't ONLY trade Elson. If they want anything decent, they'll have to give up someone decent, and probably take on a veteran with an expensive contract.
I never should've gone into hypotheticals because my Elson bashing was based in principle....he blows and damn near any other NBA player for the same salary would be better on the Spurs. Not saying it will happen, just that it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1986v2
Difference of opinion....
it's damn near 1AM on the east coast and I have to be up in 4 hours for physical training....I'm out.
Elson doesn't have to be traded, just sat down. I'd rather watch Mahinmi bite on fakes and commit fouls than watch Elson do his thing.
Funny thing- I told someone today that I would even take a hobbled Webber at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
and im not disagreeing with you. put me in the "id trade elson for a hot ham & cheese sandwich" camp. just as long as we arent paying that sandwich a penny more than we are paying elson...Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
we need consistency
and Elson is NOT giving us that much. 2 yrs on this team, he shld be half as good as Oberto or Rasho in their 2nd yr.
with the team.
Oberto this time of yr made a franchise record for shooting 100% in a game(11-11, if I'm not mistaken) last yr.
and Rasho though some hated him, did gave us a solid performance w/ TD injured when they played against the Lakers (w/ ShaQ & Kobe, new teammates Payton/Malone), in his 2nd yr. The Lakers won in 2OTs but lost to their next opponent due to exhaustion. (lol)
What has Elson accomplished so far? Or shld be risked this team giving him 30 minutes or so just to show us if he got talent at all?
if he doesn't show us something in the rodeo road games he's got to go. Or the Spurs must just a short-term player who can score and trade Elson in the off-season. Tiago Splitter will be here next yr. I'm optomistic for an upgrade if he'll be here already.
a philli fan proposed this trade on realgm
dalambert + carney
for
barry + bonner + ian + first round pick
what you guys think?
that said realgm poster has suffered some sever head trauma recently, or really doesnt like philly...Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
Philadelphia wouldn't EVER do that trade.Quote:
philli fan proposed this trade on realgm
dalambert + carney
for
barry + bonner + ian + first round pick
what you guys think?
:lol @ realGM
All this Elson hate is misplaced, when the entire frontline (except for Duncan) simply sucks at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
Agreed 100 percent!! All this hate on Elson, the one man who gets the least opportunity of the bigs. But OBerto went 11 for 11 against phoenix last year that justifies for the other 200 games doesn't it? lol I was actually excited myself tonight seeing Utah's players actually thinking before going up over Elson. Oberto on the other hand is like a stepping ladder for an and 1. Oberto may have an edge mentally, but Elson has a huge edge physically. All in all our bigs suck outside of Duncan.
All this hilarious shit about trading for a wing. lol What the hell is that going to do to improve our team. Yeah i'm sure if we got another wing for Elson, out of all people, he would be worthy enough taking minutes away from Bruce Manu Ime Finley and Barry when he comes back. Especially when its evident theres a huge whole in the interior of our defense. Hell when Rasho was gettin consistent minutes here teams were shooting 41-42 percent and averaging 84 points a game. Now teams are well above that.
should we ask toronto for a re trade?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I just want to go on record that I, completely wasted tonight, compared Elson's trade value to a jarred and preserved R.C. Buford fart.
Dude, where did you in november/december? I whacked my brain but I didn't remember you on ST those gays. You was glad for the guy and his amazing games?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Oberto had a solid games against Dallas/Houston/Utah/Denver/Lakers/Clippers and many contenders teams in nov/dic.
Where did you in the first half against NO? the guy scored 10 points with a FG100% 4/4 and 2/2 FT then I think small balls put him out rhythm.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
Last five game of Oberto. Houston (all his effort and courage against Yao) Charlotte (good and solid game in only 14') Lakers (Barry in start line and Oberto played only 8' for small balls) Miami (decent game) NO (really good first half) Utah (fouls troubles) On 5 games 3 good is not all bad.
I think they should send him to the D-League, let him get some playing time and maybe get his game to where it needs to be, since they did recall Mahmimi today.
Right now, Spurs have no real reason to trade Elson.
He doesn't hurt the team money wise, he has an expiring contract and Spurs are below the luxury tax.
He doesn't hurt the team chemistry wise with a bad attitude.
Even if Elson was the worst player in the NBA, and it's not the case, Spurs have no serious reason to trade him. If Pop find him so bad, he can simply put him in the doghouse and give more playtime to Bonner.
I see spurs only trading Elson if they sign some players (like Stoudamire) that put them over the tax or if they can get in a trade an impact player and they need to send Elson to match his salary.
You can't send Elson in the D-League. Only players in their first or second year can be send down in D-League.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylsteele
If you guys want to keep hatin' on Elson, you guys need to direct some of this criticism towards Oberto, Bonner and Horry too. It's not exactly like the Spurs are getting "big time" contributions from either.
When's the last time Horry hit a shot?
Can Oberto get a rebound?
Can Bonner hit an open shot or grab rebound instead of taking wild swipes?
Well, I got attacked for saying the Spurs need to trade some depth for a big man.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
At least for one night, someone else missed Rasho.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
Our entire front court, excepting Duncan, is not playing well. We have to move at least one of them..to do any thing otherwise is simply accepting defeat.
Finding an athletic wing is not our biggest problem right now. Improving our point and post play is. Long term, wing. Short term, anyone not named Elson in the front court.
Everyone was so ready to ship Melvin Ely's ass outta here this past summer. I doubt he could do any worse than the quartet of Elson, Bonner, Horry and Oberto.Quote:
Originally Posted by tav1
Duncan must feel like a lone ranger because he has to do everything on the frontline.
I find that you overreacted about the quality of Spurs' frontcourt.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
Does it really look worse than last year in January ? I don't think so.
Spurs frontcourt in 04,05,06 or 07 weren't really better than this year frontcourt.
Oberto, Horry and Bonner aren't great players but they are all solid role players. Elson could be useful in certain case and Spurs can play some small ball with Udoka. Pop should be able to get some solid minutes from these players.
It's not an overraction to state that, with the exception of Duncan, the Spurs aren't getting much from their frontcourt. Surely you can see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
My point is this lack of frontcourt production is not just the fault of Elson. It's shortsighted to simply blame him and give everyone else a pass.
You really want to claim that Elson, Oberto, and the 2008 version of Horry are as good as the 2004 versions of Horry, Malik, and Rasho? Not even close.
Trade Elson and Horry for Wilcox.
Horry couldn't make a shot right now to save his life. Sure, he had a nice block, but we see one of those just about as often as we see Haley's comet around here, and right Horry is more of a waste of a roster spot than Elson is.
Oberto isn't playing good at all, and it seems like the level of WEAK SAUCE he's been drinking has gone up. The dude hasn't shown much intensity the past few games.
Elson didn't play good against Utah, but he didn't play horrible either. He hit a couple of shots, and at least he was being aggressive, even is he was fouling. A couple of those fouls just looked like absolute nonsense to me. As we all know, the refs are idiots.
Bonner hasn't done much as of late either, turning down open shots to go off the dribble and try to make something happen, which he CAN'T do. I wanna puke everytime I see Matt put the ball on the floor. The guy has the hustle, butlately he hasn't shown it.
So all in all, I think we can make a case about EVERY single one of our big guys (except Duncan) not playing well lately. Therefore, stop the Elson bashing. Like others have said, you need to focus some of that criticism to the other bigs on the team, too.
I was bashing Horry too. I honestly don't think Horry can turn it up this year in the playoffs. I know Pop wouldn't trade him, but I know I would. I knw he has years of valuable experience, but if he can't produce when he's on the court, then its time to let him go.
Trade Elson for Pietrus.
Definitely. I know he's done it in years past, but he hasn't played anywhere near DECENT this year and I don't see him doing any better in the playoffs, if we even make it that far. It's sad to say that this year the West has gotten much better, every team has gotten new players, better players, and the Spurs once again pretty much kept the same team, which means we kep tthe same, AGING, team, and it's starting to show.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoSpur
I honestly think the Spurs need an enforcer and a big who isn't soft. Wilcox fits that. I would not even mind him playing as a starter next to Duncan. The guy is very physical and does have offensive skill to him.
Bruno, with all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, this front court is much worse than in past years. Horry's game is greatly diminished, Elson misses more rotations than he makes, Oberto is lifeless right now and Bonner can not find a niche. I'd gladly take Nesterovic or Scola over any of those guys. And Udoka is a tough defender, but small ball is going to win a championship if he is at the 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Does the Spurs front office have the gumption to move Horry or Oberto? Elson seems like a patsy, but, really, I'd be fine if they moved any of the 3. Bonner, too. Trade one or two of them already, especially if you're going to play small.
Yes, this is me sounding the alarm.
I don't give a fuck to what the frontcourt does in January. What is important is what he does during the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tav1
This year frontcourt is the same one that was solid during last playoffs.
I'm confident that Oberto will be very solid this year. He is a big game guy and looked as lifeless last January than this January.
Horry is a kind of mystery, nobody knows if he will turn it on this year. Horry was very good in 05 and 07 but sucked in 04 and 06. If he turns it on, Spurs will be fine with a main rotation of Duncan/Oberto/Horry.
If Horry sucks in the playoffs this year, Spurs have some alternate solution with Bonner and Elson. It won't be as good as a good Horry but I think that Bonner can give you some qualities minutes with his energy and shooting touch. Elson wasn't that bad last year as end of the bench guy during the playoffs.
In 04, Spurs bigs were horrible by fully diseaspearing against Lakers.
In 05, Spurs' frontcourt was good but not great. Horry was very good but Nazr was quite incosnsitent.
In 06, Spurs frontcourt was horrible by his inability to match up with Dallas.
Scola has never been a Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tav1
and :lmao on Rasho. I like Rasho, he is a good guy and has a lot of fundamentals but he sucks when playoffs time comes.
Oberto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasho.
You have certain matchups when you have to play small.Quote:
Originally Posted by tav1
Spurs win number 4 with small ball.
Elson has a lot of potential. Personally I don't think the Spurs utilize his strengths nearly enough, and he ends up looking like he sucks.
i agree somewhat that the Spurs would have to change into more of an uptempo team to get the most out of him, and that's what I thought his signing actually signaled. I guess it's true to an extent but Pop makes it happen by going small rather than playing Elson. Apparently we still need Derrick McKey.
I forgot aboout that rule, shoot. He sure doesn't play like a veteran alot of the times. He has potential, but soooo inconsistent it is nerve racking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Rasho did a good job on Shaq in that series-- even his haters were praising him. Unfortunately, Malik was already in the doghouse because he always did a good job on Shaq, as well. The Spurs lost to the Lakers because Tony couldn't get into the lane and nobody-- Hedo, Manu, Bruce-- could make an outside shot. To claim they were horrible because the Spurs did not win a title that year shows just how little you actually know. The Spurs SURVIVED with Oberto last year because they got lucky and did not have to play certain teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I laugh at all the Oberto praise- because last year about this time people on this site claimed he was the WORST starting center in the whole NBA! :lol
This is exactly what I've been talking about the entire time. The reason that I think they signed Cisco was to have a guy that can run the floor and play at an uptemo pace, but the Spurs are cancelling that by going small. I don't see that working out at all, and as a result, everybody bashes Elson because it makes him seem like he sucks. In a half court offense, Elson would be a contributor by cutting, slashing, and doing little things. He is a much better shooter than most of you give him credit for. I think in the right situation he can be a good player but Pop hasn't given him that opporitunity.