Gut Check For Suns Fans (True Hoop)

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Gut Check for Suns Fans

After a double overtime Game 1 loss, the Suns were gladiators; but for a gaffe or two and some San Antonio luck, Phoenix essentially beat the World Champions on the road.

Game 2, however, was different. The Suns lost this game.

A team with a short bench and a lack of youth is getting very little from a gimpy Grant Hill, who was supposed to be a key stopper. Leandro Barbosa has never played very well against the Spurs, and Boris Diaw hasn't been helping.

The other Suns are playing well, but need to be superhuman to overcome those odds against a great team.

Say you play Game 1 over ten times, then Phoenix probably wins eight of them. So, in effect, Phoenix has only really been beaten once.

And you don't want to over-react to what was, in effect, one real loss. You don't want to be that fan, that sportswriter, that player, that coach -- who projects too much based on a game or two.

But at the end of last night's game, now that the Suns are down 0-2, a hole few teams have ever crawled out of, you can't help but wonder: What happens if Phoenix loses this series?

Try that idea on for size.

No arguing they are an elite team. But they are an elite team that has sacrificed everything from draft picks to Shawn Marion to win in the West right now. If they don't win right now, when will they?

I could see bringing the same crew back. But I could also see an owner and GM deciding to head in another direction

We're not there yet.

This is not the end of the road in this series. This is not the end of the road for this team. But from where we are right now, for the first time in recent Suns' history, you can kind of smell the end, right? You can at least imagine the notion that this is a team that will look pretty darned different before they win a title.

If they win Game 3, that changes everything. But today the outlook is surely cloudy. And Sun fans are feeling it.

TrueHoop reader Tim -- a Spurs fan -- did a little field research among the Suns fans, and emails:

I was curious to what Suns fans might be thinking this morning -- the body language of their coach and team signaled defeat after last night's loss -- and popped into one of their message boards. After a few minutes of perusing through the comments, I felt bad for them. Not in a "those poor suckers" sort of way, but in a "my heart goes out to you" sort of way.

No one is complaining about refs or dirty players or flops. They're just asking whether or not their window is closed. They're asking if that which they've rooted for for so long is passing by. The prospect of death is in the air and the mourning, perhaps prematurely, has begun.

Bill Simmons once opined that the Barkley Suns were the best team never to win a championship, and maybe that's right. It's doubtless that that team's missed opportunity still lingers in the mind of Sun die-hards. They ran up against Michael Jordan and did all they could. But it wasn't enough.

The Suns' current team is similar. They're great -- a team that has been tremendous for basketball fans and the Association. But they've run up against Tim Duncan and can't negotiate safe passage.

Strangely, the Shaq version of the Suns represents their best option of overcoming their arch-nemesis. Can you imagine how gut-wrenching this must be for the Phoenix faithful? Has Steve Nash ever beat a Duncan led team in the playoffs? Is he playing all those past losses in his mind this morning? It's enough to make one sick.

I really believe Phoenix ought to win this series. They're playing better, they have a better roster. The stars have performed well for each team but right now the Spurs are simply winning on coaching and heart. Over the first two games, the Suns have been in a position to bury the champs at home. It's a microcosm of the team's recent history with one another -- the Suns tease us with their potential and give the look of an eventual champ and yet they ultimately collapse and succumb to defeat.

That pattern is stuck on repeat and the poor Suns fans wake-up each day to relive it.

It's no wonder they hate the Spurs.

UPDATE: TrueHoop reader and Suns fan Kevin asks that you please don't weep for him:

I am not giving up or grieving, and I do not see this as the last chance, the series is not over and this team has come back from worse odds to win. Whether we get past the Spurs this year or not, this team has been built to last for years to come. I would like Nash to win one, Hill as well, maybe even Shaq get his 5th if only to have more than Duncan. But, this is not over, I find it tiring hearing and reading all these sports analysts put so much on a game two, for any of these matchups. Have we forgotten this is a year out of the norm. A year that the 8 West team all have over 50 wins and only are separated by 7 wins. Also, I do hate the Spurs, the first thing I did after the game was instant message my best friend and write 'i hate the spurs.'

It feels great to be hated so much. Having a team as the "evil Empire" is pretty damn fun.

I have to imagine this is what Microsoft and Bill gates feel like.

Well at least the Suns gotta big trade chip in Shaquille O'Neil. If it doesn't work this year, you can always make a trade and dump Shaq's salary for a quicker more athletic big.

I almost feel like the Patriots with all the anti "Evil Empire" talk...feels nice...

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After a double overtime Game 1 loss, the Suns were gladiators; but for a gaffe or two and some San Antonio luck, Phoenix essentially beat the World Champions on the road.

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I had a hard time reading past that. The Spurs made shots and stops in crunch time, and the Suns didn't make as many. It's not like the Suns accidentally tipped the ball into the Spurs' basket to win the game. I'm tired of this bullshit about how the Suns "essentially" won.

I guess we "essentially" beat them by 20 in game one, if you don't count the many uncharacteristic mistakes we made in the first half. What a load of crap.

It is amusing to hear more of how the Suns are the better team because: insert pile of BS on top of more BS.

True, the Suns have jumped out to 16 and 14 point leads, EARLY in both games. But give me a break. Basic math tells me the Spurs outscored the Suns by 19 and 21 in the more curtial closing part of each game.

I agree, the Spurs needed the cards to fall in their favor to force both overtimes. But the Suns certainly got the ball to bounce a time or two in their favor to build the lead in the first place, as did the Spurs to come charging back.

When a team has proven time and again they can't stop a pick-n-roll to save their life, no lead is safe. That, solid defense for 48 with a few minutes of lockdown defense thrown in, sums up why the Spurs are 14 - 4 over the Suns in the playoffs since 2003.

Just think what the Spurs could do if they were the better team. LOL!

This is an interesting rationalization Suns fans have come up with for the Game 1 loss. Since the Spurs had to hit multiple improbable and incredible clutch shots to pull out the win, Sun fan just decides to count that game as a hypothetical win for the Suns. So, in the race for the Suns to defend their title as the Would-shoulda-coulda Excuse Champions, this series is "really" 1-1.

The psychology of gutless losers can be quite intriguing.

The Suns are categorically superior to the Spurs in every way, and their 3-10 playoff record against San Antonio these past four years is simply a function of several highly improbable coincidences.

Sick of hearing Suns better team.

Darth Vader was also my favorite character in Starwars.. bad guys are badass.

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer technically were better musicians than the Beatles. How did that work out for them?

At this point, how anyone could possibly believe that the Suns are the better team defies credulity. I guess those ratings championships are worth more than I thought...

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

The Suns are categorically superior to the Spurs in every way, and their 3-10 playoff record against San Antonio these past four years is simply a function of several highly improbable coincidences.

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Well, you forgot that they essentially won the series in five last year and they essentially won Game 1, so that puts them at 6-6. And who's counting 2005 anyway? That was pre Raja.

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Originally Posted by Rummpd

Sick of hearing Suns better team.

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You need to open your mind. You probably are trapped in a modern worldview, in which you only evaluate truth claims such as "who is the better team" based upon what you think are objective data, such as the scores of games. Sun fan is at a higher level than you, and can deconstruct your insistence upon using the scoreboard as the arbiter of "who is better" as an attempt to claim power over him. Sun fan views the "scores" of "games" as subjective information useful only to begin a conversation about who is better. Sun fan holds to local truth claims regarding "who is better" based upon values and feelings, and therefore rejects your propositional truth claim that the Spurs are champions simply because they have won championships. The notion of "eliminating" certain teams from the playoffs because other teams "score" more "points" is antiquated and inherently violent in the first place. Rather, Sun fan embraces a "community of championship" based upon differing cultural cues, such as aesthetics and public popularity.

Hate = envy. The Suns et all simply can't handle our success. I guess Amare's lack of maturity has rubbed off on some if not most of the fans.

So, S0ns Fan, now you see that evil will always triumph because GOOD is DUMB.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

You need to open your mind. You probably are trapped in a modern worldview, in which you only evaluate truth claims such as "who is the better team" based upon what you think are objective data, such as the scores of games. Sun fan is at a higher level than you, and can deconstruct your insistence upon using the scoreboard as the arbiter of "who is better" as an attempt to claim power over him. Sun fan views the "scores" of "games" as subjective information useful only to begin a conversation about who is better. Sun fan holds to local truth claims regarding "who is better" based upon values and feelings, and therefore rejects your propositional truth claim that the Spurs are champions simply because they have won championships. The notion of "eliminating" certain teams from the playoffs because other teams "score" more "points" is antiquated and inherently violent in the first place. Rather, Sun fan embraces a "community of championship" based upon differing cultural cues, such as aesthetics and public popularity.

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I believe the league office is catching onto this too, finally. In fact, next year, David Stern is going to each team's home opener to have a ring ceremony. Kinda like a youth sports deal where everybody gets a trophy. I say it's about frigging time. The NBA: where "everybody is a winner just for competing" happens.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

You need to open your mind. You probably are trapped in a modern worldview, in which you only evaluate truth claims such as "who is the better team" based upon what you think are objective data, such as the scores of games. Sun fan is at a higher level than you, and can deconstruct your insistence upon using the scoreboard as the arbiter of "who is better" as an attempt to claim power over him. Sun fan views the "scores" of "games" as subjective information useful only to begin a conversation about who is better. Sun fan holds to local truth claims regarding "who is better" based upon values and feelings, and therefore rejects your propositional truth claim that the Spurs are champions simply because they have won championships. The notion of "eliminating" certain teams from the playoffs because other teams "score" more "points" is antiquated and inherently violent in the first place. Rather, Sun fan embraces a "community of championship" based upon differing cultural cues, such as aesthetics and public popularity.

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Yup...the Suns "feel" like they won the past two games, right? :lmao

Define "better". Better teams win in a 7 game series.

The Suns may have superior players at every position, but as team, the Spurs have proven it repeatedly.

One thing I find amusing is that almost every Suns fan "hates" the Spurs.

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I really believe Phoenix ought to win this series. They're playing better, they have a better roster. The stars have performed well for each team but right now the Spurs are simply winning on coaching and heart.

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There's so much wrong with this paragraph, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Spurs winning on just coaching and heart? How about on superior basketball IQ, defense, and clutch players? The Suns are playing better? Well depends on what quarter you're talking about. And we all know basketball games aren't won in one or two quarters.

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

I almost feel like the Patriots with all the anti "Evil Empire" talk...feels nice...

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Except we don't cheat or aren't poor sports.

Fuck these stories... Every true Suns fan has been on the brink of complete fandom anarchy since last year's playoffs. There's no effin' gut-check time. Most every true Suns fan tore his/hers out at some point this past year. Lord knows I did after Game 6. Others after the Marion trade. Still more after the Suns drew the Spurs in the first round. Those who didn't anticipate this being another trauma-causing series were either dead, blind or naive.

LINK: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost...2&postcount=52

And, yes, to all those "Registration is closed" walled off homers who parade around under the title of fan, how's (once again) taking the Spurs for granted working out for ya? Hiding in your opinion-protected forums, isolated from common sense, stroking each other's "fandom" to the point where only pro-Suns goo is splattered in post after post, mocking those who think different and the forums who give them a platform to post.

Spurstalk afraid? More like PHXsuns.net is afraid to venture beyond the paths littered with broken pair after broken pair of rose-tinted glasses.

Most would say you post in security. I'll say that from this "security" the only bother your keeping out is smarts.

Dear Phoenix Sons,


We realize that you are the better team and that we only won the first game by flopping all over the place and hitting "miracle" 3's. The fadeaway baseline 3 pointer by Steve Nash was not a "fluke" because, after all, he's Steve Nash.

Therefore, we are officially forfeiting the game 1 win.


Sincerely,


San Antonio Spurs




















P.S. Go fuck yourself. :flipoff

interesting... we have to respect this guys till this is over... we have to keep our composure to overcome extra confidence... we have been outplayed for long stretches.. and whoever faces NOH in the second round will have its hands full and with chances to get out...

Damn, this guy is living in an alternate reality. The Suns didn't "really" win game 1. They really lost game 1. Get over it.

The series isn't any closer to its end than it is to its beginning. 2 wins down, 2 wins to go--a lot can happen.

The Suns are a talented team, but they aren't deep--at all. So it's difficult to say that they are the more talented team. I'll take the Spurs' "coaching and heart" I guess.

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Originally Posted by DDS4

Define "better". Better teams win in a 7 game series.

The Suns may have superior players at every position, but as team, the Spurs have proven it repeatedly.

One thing I find amusing is that almost every Suns fan "hates" the Spurs.

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You need to understand the perspective of the Sun fan. He thought there was going to be a payoff for following that team. Eventually, they would get over the hump and it would be worth all the pain. They thought there would be "justice." Eventually, they would beat the Spurs. But, that overarching worldview collapsed. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. The Suns will fade into irrelevance, even as these supposedly ancient Spurs remain contenders. There is no hope. All the emotional investment they put into that team is for naught. They know nothing but failure and anguish.

So while mass suicide might be one option, another is simply to go insane and redefine "better" to mean something the Suns have and the Spurs don't. In Sun Fan Land, "better" means having a pretty offense. Well, now with Shaq, the Suns don't have such a pretty offense, so "better" really means having had a philosophy of pretty offense in the recent past.

"Better" also means "more popular." The quality of a team is measured not in whether they consistently outscore opponents in games, but rather in how many casual fans tune in to watch them.

Continuing on, "better" also means having purple-and-orange uniforms, playing in a city near nationally renowned landforms, and sharing the local sports scene with other major professional teams, including one that has won a championship within the last decade.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

The Suns are categorically superior to the Spurs in every way, and their 3-10 playoff record against San Antonio these past four years is simply a function of several highly improbable coincidences.

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I'm thinking league-wide conspiracies involving both on-court officials and New York-based executives are something other than "improbable coincidences."

Don't feel sorry for Suns fans. Just because your team is good doesn't mean they are entitled to an NBA championship. Their fans should be thankful that they have such a talented basketball team that frequently makes the NBA playoffs.


Just imagine being an Arizona Cardinals fan.


Shit, that didn't help, did it?

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

Since the Spurs had to hit multiple improbable and incredible clutch shots to pull out the win, Sun fan just decides to count that game as a hypothetical win for the Suns. So, in the race for the Suns to defend their title as the Would-shoulda-coulda Excuse Champions, this series is "really" 1-1.
.

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Yeah right, but when the series will "really" or "essentially" be 3-3 in the mind of Suns fans, they will wonder why the Spurs move on to the semis while they can go fishing !

The only thing I liked in this B/S paper is the comparison between Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan.

The Suns have played better than us for three quarters this series. The Spurs played better than them or at their level: 3rd, 4th, overtimes in Game 1 & 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in Game 2. The Suns, in both games, were only up because they played significantly better than the Spurs in the quarters they outplayed us. I don't see how they have played better than us.

It's not like these are a massive 2 games out of 7.

No need to get down after two losses. Who won the regular season battles, The Suns, the Suns are better.

At worst, the Suns are tied with the Spurs 3-3. But one of those Suns game Shaq wasn't here. So count that as a Suns win. And Game 1 of the Playoffs was pratically a Suns win. So if you think about it, this year the Suns lead 5-1. The Suns are the better team.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Fuck these stories... Every true Suns fan has been on the brink of complete fandom anarchy since last year's playoffs. There's no effin' gut-check time. Most every true Suns fan tore his/hers out at some point this past year. Lord knows I did after Game 6. Others after the Marion trade. Still more after the Suns drew the Spurs in the first round. Those who didn't anticipate this being another trauma-causing series were either dead, blind or naive.

LINK: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost...2&postcount=52

And, yes, to all those "Registration is closed" walled off homers who parade around under the title of fan, how's (once again) taking the Spurs for granted working out for ya? Hiding in your opinion-protected forums, isolated from common sense, stroking each other's "fandom" to the point where only pro-Suns goo is splattered in post after post, mocking those who think different and the forums who give them a platform to post.

Spurstalk afraid? More like PHXsuns.net is afraid to venture beyond the paths littered with broken pair after broken pair of rose-tinted glasses.

Most would say you post in security. I'll say that from this "security" the only bother your keeping out is smarts.

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http://www.creators.com/editorial_ca.../193_thumb.gif

Good.
Spurs fans shouldn't feel sorry for the Suns fans if we end up winning the series.

I want the Spurs to be ruthless.

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Originally Posted by TampaDude

Yup...the Suns "feel" like they won the past two games, right? :lmao

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To bad they didn't. :toast

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

I almost feel like the Patriots with all the anti "Evil Empire" talk...feels nice...

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Yeah, but the difference is we don't cheat.

I love how the Suns just cant get over any losses. It seems each loss they get they have some hair brained theory for.

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Originally Posted by SpurOutofTownFan

Darth Vader was also my favorite character in Starwars.. bad guys are badass.

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So are the good guys:rolleyes

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

I had a hard time reading past that. The Spurs made shots and stops in crunch time, and the Suns didn't make as many. It's not like the Suns accidentally tipped the ball into the Spurs' basket to win the game. I'm tired of this bullshit about how the Suns "essentially" won.

I guess we "essentially" beat them by 20 in game one, if you don't count the many uncharacteristic mistakes we made in the first half. What a load of crap.

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I Completely Agree!
WoW
Essentially...I find this really rude...


The only thing that makes me feel better is that the Suns think they are the "Better Team"

knowing that Suns fans are sad makes me happy

Has Henry Abbott always been this much of a complete tool? He's essentially parroting the D'Antoni party line.

Only thing I know is if they lose Game 3 its over. D"antoni is on thin ice with his support in the front office is dwindling.

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Originally Posted by Henry Abbott

Say you play Game 1 over ten times, then Phoenix probably wins eight of them. So, in effect, Phoenix has only really been beaten once.

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What. The. Fuck.

The Spurs and Suns did play Game 1 over again. It was called Game 2. And the SPURS won.

Abbott needs to stick to linking to bullshit articles and making bulleted lists. Dumb ass!

Did Abbott really write this? I usually like what he has to say, but this is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Man Mountain

The Spurs and Suns did play Game 1 over again. It was called Game 2.

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ROFL.

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Originally Posted by Man Mountain

The Spurs and Suns did play Game 1 over again. It was called Game 2.

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You have GOT to send that to Abbott. :rollin

Moron.

"this team has been built to last for years to come"

Shaq? Skinner? Steve? last for years?

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Originally Posted by Spurs Dynasty 21

knowing that Suns fans are sad makes me happy

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+1 :lmao

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Originally Posted by Man Mountain

What. The. Fuck.

The Spurs and Suns did play Game 1 over again. It was called Game 2. And the SPURS won.

Abbott needs to stick to linking to bullshit articles and making bulleted lists. Dumb ass!

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:rollin

what kind of spurs fan says this: "I really believe Phoenix ought to win this series"?

what a fucking jackass.

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Originally Posted by MI21

Did Abbott really write this? I usually like what he has to say, but this is just ridiculous.

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abbott loves the suns. i hate that fucker.

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Originally Posted by phyzik

It feels great to be hated so much. Having a team as the "evil Empire" is pretty damn fun.

I have to imagine this is what Microsoft and Bill gates feel like.

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by Man Mountain

What. The. Fuck.

The Spurs and Suns did play Game 1 over again. It was called Game 2. And the SPURS won.

Abbott needs to stick to linking to bullshit articles and making bulleted lists. Dumb ass!

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:lmao

My stomach hurts now.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

sharing the local sports scene with other major professional teams, including one that has won a championship within the last decade.

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Don't forget the Phoenix Mercury. They won a national championship way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way before the Phoenix Suns will ever win one. Way!