Bowen's reputation on display once again!!

[Kori Ellis]

Just so people know, this is how you post YouTube videos:

[ youtube ]3RDYD0EUBzY[ /youtube ]

Then take out the spaces.

[bobbyjoe]

That's absolutely absurd.

Bowen's habit of undercutting jumpshooters by sticking his foot underneath the area so they cant even go straight up and down without risking landing on his foot is one of the most de able things I've ever seen on a basketball court. It's pitiful, shameful, and disgraceful.

A punch to the face is less dirty because Bowen's type of plays recklessly put players ankles and knees in jeopardy. It's not basketball. It's called being a coward.

And he's the only master of it. I have yet to see "a lot of other guys" do it.

Look at the Amare play of last year. No way is Bruce going to stop a bucket there. The only goal is to trip and injure. Easily can cause an achilles tear with bushleague "basketball" like that.

The difference between Nash and Bowen? Nash has committed 1, maybe 2 dirty plays in his career. Bowen? Too many to count.

Outside of SA, no one thinks of Bowen as being other than one of the if not THE dirtiest players in the NBA. They all arent ignorant or blind. It's pretty damn obvious.

[ss1986v2]

I commend you for being honest. However, Bowen dirty is not the same like Raja dirty or even Harpring dirty. Raja is kind of Stockton dirty, never going so far as hurting the other players. Harpring is more Malone dirty. Bowen has his own category of being the dirtist dirty!

well then, as i said before:

hooray!

[ChumpDumper]

Horford/Paculla/JoshSmith/JJ/CP3/JoshChildres/Sheldon

I think this team would win in the East ahead of Pistons and Celtics. Agree?

Or how about an Amare/JJ/Marvin core?

All in good time.

[Kori Ellis]

Look at the Amare play of last year. No way is Bruce going to stop a bucket there. The only goal is to trip and injure. Easily can cause an achilles tear with bushleague "basketball" like that.

That was funny. The Amare "kick" was the most overblown thing ever. He tapped the bag of his heel. Bowen has done some dirty things before, but that wasn't one of them.

[atxrocker]

bruce bowen has really managed to get success out of his style of play. props to him for that. i'm just impressed that he's never really compromised on his gritty play and has yet to be called on it. ever. not once. he'll retire taking someone down and the masses will love him. that guy really has it made.

[ChumpDumper]

yet to be called on it. ever. not once.

[cly2tw]

and most fans of other teams have to blissfully ignore that bowen doesn't do much that a lot of other guys aren't doing, he's just under their microscope.

if bowen had nailed felton like nash did earlier this year, you'd all have been up in arms. but nash is just a "scrapper" not "dirty."

Reputation. Ever heard of this word? Nash doesn't have a reputation of trying to intimidate the offensive player with tunneling, kicking their heels, their groins, or the living out of them while lying on the floor.

[atxrocker]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?

[Kori Ellis]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?

You must have missed out on the Ray Allen/Vince Carter whining that caused every media outlet in the country to be on his ass about it.

[ChumpDumper]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?

You are seriously asking this question in the middle of a Bruce Bowen whine thread?

[bobbyjoe]

That was funny. The Amare "kick" was the most overblown thing ever. He tapped the bag of his heel. Bowen has done some dirty things before, but that wasn't one of them.

You obviously dont know much about achilles tendon injuries. Amare fell awkwardly and was damn lucky to avoid a serious injury.

If Bowen tries that play on Amare 10 times, Amare probably ends up injured 30-40% of the time.

The point is obviously not the severity of the tap. The point is there is absolutely no logical reason, excuse, or explanation for a clean basketball player with any semblance of a conscience or integrity to stick his leg out like that. Only bad things will happen.

Kicking a man in the back like that just shows what a low-life coward you are. Sort of like when Bowen instead of confronting Ray Allen like a man kicked him in the back. It's a trend with Bruce. He's the master of subtle, but inherently dirty (or pitiful) extracurricular activity on the court.

Sticking a foot under a jumpshooter's space is also very subtle. You could even call it a "slight tap" like you did. It's also very dangerous and dirty. And perhaps the 100000th time you do it, you lose the right to call it an accident.

[ChumpDumper]

100000th time

Wow. That's a lot of YouTubes!

[atxrocker]

You must have missed out on the Ray Allen/Vince Carter whining that caused every media outlet in the country to be on his ass about it.

each season apparently is a new opportunity for bruce to try to outdue himself.

[Kori Ellis]

You obviously dont know much about achilles tendon injuries. Amare fell awkwardly and was damn lucky to avoid a serious injury.

If Bowen tries that play on Amare 10 times, Amare probably ends up injured 30-40% of the time.

The point is obviously not the severity of the tap. The point is there is absolutely no logical reason, excuse, or explanation for a clean basketball player with any semblance of a conscience or integrity to stick his leg out like that. Only bad things will happen.

Kicking a man in the back like that just shows what a low-life coward you are. Sort of like when Bowen instead of confronting Ray Allen like a man kicked him in the back. It's a trend with Bruce. He's the master of subtle, but inherently dirty (or pitiful) extracurricular activity on the court.

Sticking a foot under a jumpshooter's space is also very subtle. You could even call it a "slight tap" like you did. It's also very dangerous and dirty. And perhaps the 100000th time you do it, you lose the right to call it an accident.

Umm.. Amare didn't fall when Bowen "kicked him." He came down on his opposite foot and barely stumbled.

Bowen kicked Ray Allen in his back for holding onto his leg ... no one, even Bruce, would say that was a clean play.

Players get under the shooter all the time. Years ago, when the Bowen whining started with Ray and Vince, Manu came down on someone's foot on the same night as one of the Bowen whiners did. It's obviously sneaky and not clean, but Bowen isn't the only one who ever does it.

[bobbyjoe]

Sorry, I meant stumbled. The line between stumbling and your leg giving out and having a serious injury is very, very thin.

The reason for the stumble was pretty clearly the kick to the back of the heel. Amare dunks a lot and I've yet to ever see him lack explosion and stumble like he did on that play.

Try getting kicked in the back of the foot when you are jumping as high as you can and tell me it doesnt affect you when landing...

R.E. getting under shooters: The difference with Bowen is that he will come all the way underneath your airspace to the point where you sometimes can't even go straight up and down without landing on his foot.

Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

[cly2tw]

play.

Players get under the shooter all the time. Years ago, when the Bowen whining started with Ray and Vince, Manu came down on someone's foot on the same night as one of the Bowen whiners did. It's obviously sneaky and not clean, but Bowen isn't the only one who ever does it.

Don't bring on Manu. His acting on falling down on somebody's feet caused Barbosa to sit 3 months after Manu crashed into LB's knee. Manu would change direction in the air to lean on you that you can't really anticipate where his feet would land after his jump. He is a flopper and taking his flopper's chances.risk and successful.

[Kori Ellis]

R.E. getting under shooters: The difference with Bowen is that he will come all the way underneath your airspace to the point where you sometimes can't even go straight up and down without landing on his foot.

Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

There's not another player to name. Very few players crowd the opponent on D like Bowen does. As far as I recall, only three players (Carter/Allen/Francis) have called out Bowen for it (prompting the league's phone call after the Francis incident).

That's a very small percentage considering all his years in the league guarding all the top perimeter players. *shrug*

[Princess Pimp]

Can anobody talk about Ginobili's 11-point performance?

Is he injured? or is it another one of his usual streaky games?

IMO If Ginobili is not 100% the Spurs are in big trouble!!!

Simply because Ginobili is the Spurs MVP

[Kori Ellis]

Can anobody talk about Ginobili's 11-point performance?

Is he injured? or is it another one of his usual streaky games?

IMO If Ginobili is not 100% the Spurs are in big trouble!!!

Simply because Ginobili is the Spurs MVP

No NBA player is 100% at this time of year. He's not injured - he's banged up with a high hip/thigh bruise, but nothing major. He just wasn't that aggressive today.

[mikekim]

I love how everyone just sees whatever they want when it comes to Bruce. And whatever they want to see is an evil, de able, no-good villain.

He might cross the line sometimes but like I've always said, his top priority has always been to make the play. Now, it may be argued that perhaps he doesn't care enough about the effects of his extremely diligent efforts on defense on the well-being of other players. But I seriously and completely doubt he is ever trying to hurt anyone with his defense.

Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

Name one other NBA player who plays defense half as hard as Bruce.

...But I think 99.9% of Bruce Bowen threads or discussions are pointless. No one is going to really change their minds after reading/posting/talking.

You're either objective about it...like most people in this thread who are seeing both sides, or you're going to be completely and thoroughly biased...like those who say Bruce is evil incarnate or those who say that he doesn't do anything that can be irksome or dangerous. (But I will always stand by my opinion that he is not a dirty player, because I believe dirtiness is an issue of character and intent to harm.)

Maybe the rules have to change to protect the offensive player more...but it hasn't, and i guess Bruce is the only one who is "taking advantage" by playing as hard a defense as the rules allow. Go back to tape of the 80's and 90's...that's when more than a handful of players actually played defense in the league. Then judge Bruce's defense by those standards...it's not a perfect way to broaden the perspective (hand check rules today...), but whatever...you're only going to see what you want to see anyway.

[bobbyjoe]

There's not another player to name. Very few players crowd the opponent on D like Bowen does. As far as I recall, only three players (Carter/Allen/Francis) have called out Bowen for it (prompting the league's phone call after the Francis incident).

That's a very small percentage considering all his years in the league guarding all the top perimeter players. *shrug*

You forgot Phil Jackson, Isiah Thomas, Amare Stoudemire, Jamaal Crawford, Michael Finley, Jason Terry, Steve Nash among others.

Guys like Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars, Ron Artest, and Reuben Patterson all played crowding, suffocating D.

Of course I dont remember one ankle-breaking incident.

Do you honestly think only 3 people have called out Bowen?

[Kori Ellis]

Isiah Thomas/Jamaal Crawford (both were the same incident), I forgot about.

Amare/Finley/Terry/Nash - didn't call out Bowen for undercutting jump shooters (that's what I'm talking about)

[mikekim]

Guys like Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars, Ron Artest, and Reuben Patterson all played crowding, suffocating D.

Of course I dont remember one ankle-breaking incident.

Go back and watch the tape. I also think part of it has to do with the fact that players just aren't used to working against a tough, in-your-face, physical defense in the NBA today. Guys are used to being allowed some more "personal space."

As for the tape, you can start with the Chris Paul tape at the beginning of this thread. I think it's pretty obvious that Paul is at least at just as much fault as Bruce for the scuffle/confrontation between the two.

I think Kori covered the other parts of what you just posted.

Edit: In regards to Artest and Patterson, who play in today's NBA (patterson sucks, by the way), they play an entirely different sort of defense than Bruce. Although they are all on the perimeter, Artest's defense is more reliant on his strength and size. Bruce isn't that big or strong, so his defense is more reliant on positioning, denying, and crowding -- which is a more difficult and exhausting defense to play...and also 10X more annoying.

[timvp]

Bowen plays defense like his life depends on you not scoring on him in this possession. He's bound to piss you off at some point.

Oh and Bowen knew exactly what he was doing against Paul. Paul is a hot head whose one major flaw is you can rattle him if you play him physically. Bowen knows this and tried to get Paul agitated and off of his game. He succeeded for the most part but the game was too far over to matter.