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We've tried this, it was called slavery...maybe you remember it?
This isn't fully coherent, as I'm just as normal dude, but here goes.
I think we should create another level of "citizen" below what we call citizen right now. Let's call it a civilian. We immediately legalize all immigrants that want to be here, call them civilians, and set up whatever centers we need in the areas needed to facilitate them all being do ented. Do entation is key.
The catch here for the civilian is that we need to make their desire to be do ented so great, that it's voluntary: they come to us. That would minimize costs. After a certain amount of years with no legal troubles, good hard work, civilians have the opportunity to become citizens after passing some token bull history/government test.
The catch here for us normal citizens, is that civilians will not receive full benefits of a citizen. We make them pay taxes (which many already do), but we do not subject them to the minimum wage. Not only does this enable the common marriott middle classer to feel "richer" by hiring someone to cut their grass legally for 2 bucks, but it gives them more free time to consume, spend money, watch advertisements, etc.
Agencies can be set up (run by citizens earning a decent wage), like lawn service, house cleaning, chefs, construction help, etc, each with their do ented civilians, and haggling or what not but essentially legally making the money they're already making. We tax them on a scale based on a citizen making those low wages, and create properly adjusted brackets for those low wages if they do not exist.
We have already had a caste system in place in this country for like, ever, only now we would recognize it, and profit off it, and normal every day people like you and me would have a higher standard of living by being able to legally use the services of civilians.
The main problem with my plan is I can't figure out how we would handle schooling of immigrants. Health care is a problem too, but it's also a problem for normal middle class americans. That's a bigger problem than immigration itself and would need to be addressed as such IMO.
I would be very interested to read your thoughts, anglo-centric or not.
We've tried this, it was called slavery...maybe you remember it?
IIRC Slaves weren't allowed to live at their own place, and did not make money. My plan basically legalizes what is already happening, and tweaks it to benefit both parties. BTW, I did not mean the civilians would not no minimum wage, but that it would be much lower than the current citizen minimum wage.
Seriously though, what do you think?
Your not thinking like a capitalist....if there is a way to abuse people, especially if you hold the strings toward full-filling full citizenship, a capitalist will exploit it...
Good, let us exploit it. That's the whole point. Maybe I'm overblowing the impact that alot more marriott free time would have on our consumer driven economy.
Remember when computers and robots were supposed to do everything for us? Instead people are working harder than ever for less money (after inflation)......
Yes, but besides that slow ongoing process, you can't deny the fact that the average middle class american still lives to spend and hates tedious menial tasks....
I think we can accomplish the same thing with green cards....
So then what about the wage issue?
We already pay teenagers less than minimum wage..
What slavery was originally and what it became here in America over time were very different things.
Not to mention, slavery didn't begin as slavery, it began as indentured servitude. And that is whole lot like what your idea is.
I agree with Dan...this is slavery and it would be a huge step backwards.
Not only that but this idea is inherently discriminatory as well, and uncons utional.
It's also like reverse colonialism.
You never just want to accept stratification...Yes there will most likely always be some form of it, especially among noncitizens, but not legally endorsed class separation among citizens. You never want to put any sort of a ceiling or create a legally defined lower class of citizen. Eventually they'll be the victim of discrimination, and once you start separating classes it is unlikely it will just end with immigrant citizens.
This would pretty much set the Western Hemisphere back about 400 years...
Not really feelin' this one CBF....
Yeah I realize that, hnaturally. But I'm saying, theoretically, if we could actually ins ute a policy, what would you think of this one? I'm not asking what are the chances of it getting enacted, I realize those are nil.
True..we have a en wall separating Mexican families down at the border....it's like en Germany all over again
Good input. But aren't they already victims of discrimination?
So what do ya'll think is the grand plan for the Mexico problem then? We all know of the evidence of eroding US borders and merging US-Mex-Canada into one supranational state.
So do heroin addicts...does that mean we should supply them with heroin to accept second class status?
Having an excuse to stratify doesn't make stratification any better of an idea.
And it will bite you in the ass eventually, and breed resentment.
Best just not to play ball at all.
In a way sure. But they aren't really promised anything to accept that status. They aren't really encouraged by this nation to come and accept that role, at least nover overtly, or legally. It's something they are chosing to do because being discriminated against here is better than any other alternatives they have.
Offering them a promise hoever to come here and accept that status is another thing entirely...that's us encouraging a people to come here and be second class citizens. It's also something that would be unlikely to stop there.
Besides you'd be amazed how these sorts of class levels grow into legitimate and ins utionalized discrimination over time.
So what do ya'll think is the grand plan for the Mexico problem then? We all know of the evidence of eroding US borders and merging US-Mex-Canada into one supranational state.
Just in general it wouldn't bother me in the slightest in Mexico, the US and Canada merged...except for the huge left shift we'd do.
The best thing anyone could do for Mexico is overthrow their government. The best second thing that anyone could do is to let all the 13-16 year old girls in Mexico know that the Pope is a ing idiot and should not be listened to.
...in lieu of that, borders are better than anything else.
i've been to jakarta...thanks for the memories.
I just realized 4cc might have been replying to CBF...I thought it was Dan.
4cc if your comments were intended for Dan, my comments are intended for you, if they weren't...um..disregard
Pretty good idea. To expand on it, the citizens can wear a red dot on their forehead, while the civilians will wear a black dot. Then we can change the name of the country from the USA to the UFC -- the United Federated Caste.
Doesn't England have a similar practice? They call them kelpers . . .
I concur with Whottt and Dan.
CBF...
Absolutely No.
This is the land of opportunity, and people know it. What you propose brings them here legally which means they share the same rights. Your plan would become null after a few court cases. We don't need any more low skilled workers. We have plenty of able bodied people on welfare. I will never support such a proposal until we find them jobs first.
I agree we can allow more to come here. However, you do that by raising the numbers who can come over legally. This way we can control those who come here by merit.
You really want to give such help to that first grade bully that cut you off in line? You should sometime talk to people of other countries who came here legally. Ask them what they think of such a plan.
What we need to do is put the people in jail who knowingly hire illegal help. We need to make employers verify SS numbers match, and follow up if they don't. When we catch an illegal with someone else's SS number, we put them in jail for ID theft, then send them home, and never let them come here again. If hey come here again, we put them in jail again, for a long time.
We have to get control of the system somehow. The easier you make it for others to come here and stay, the more that will. What your plan would do is simply turn the flow up higher.
Can the people who say this would be equivalent to slavery explain to me in what ways the former immigrants would be worse off than they are now, and how their current status is different from what I have described in any functional way?
Ironically, your probably right...
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