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He just needs to pass and not stall the offense. Also his flailing all over the place turnovers are getting old and really screw us. Just needs to drive and dish or go for the layup. He isn't Harden/Westbrook, he isn't getting those calls.
I thought Tony did great last night in taking a backseat to the other Spurs. Several were hot and TP didn't do anything to kill the momentum. Took some shots when they were there but didn't force much.
BUT...it's really a strange thought that a PG would have the lowest bball IQ of all the players on the court. Kawaii is only a few years in and he seems to know how and when to make the right pass more than Tony. I guess you could argue that Green is below Parker. Probably Mills too. It also underlines how good the system is and management at iden y players than can fit in.
Not trying to take shots at Parker but looking at the main rotation, Parker seems to be at the very bottom in terms of passing ability.
This isn't in any order:
Duncan
Splitter
Parker
Green
Leonard
Ginobili
Mills
Belinelli
So...how crucial is Parker at this point in his career to the Spurs? I don't think he can be counted on to break down the defense and take over a game anymore. Spurs have so many weapons now that I'm not sure that they can't just plug in any solid PG.
He just needs to pass and not stall the offense. Also his flailing all over the place turnovers are getting old and really screw us. Just needs to drive and dish or go for the layup. He isn't Harden/Westbrook, he isn't getting those calls.
great tread highlighting some stuff never discussed tbh...
good job OP
LOL. Sorry...I'm not a TP hater. I know his shortcomings have been discussed. But last night, I just kept evaluating each team the Spurs had on the court and he probably always was the worst passer on the floor and in most cases had the lowest BBIQ. That being said, I'm happy with him when he can play in the flow and hit an open jumper or get into the lane for a teardrop. If he continues to do that, I think it speaks highly of him and understanding his role.
Primum non nocere
seriously great insight brah. Your take is rock solid tbh... I'm not sure how I did not see your dominance before. You did well creating another thread, your take would have been lost in the midle of the zillion ty takes about him tbh
keep up... you will probably receive a "cantthinkofanything is an elite poster candidate for POTY" comment soon
Thanks. I thought you were being sarcastic at first.
I don't know, i think you are massively underrating TP. Let's not forget this dude was a top pg 2 years ago, passing simply cannot decline fast enough. IMHO, only Diaw, Splitter, and Manu are better than him at passing the ball/passing IQ. Kawhi's improving but he's not there yet, although last night his passes were sick as .
Basically what Parker needs to do is just play within the system keep sharing the ball and penetrating to the hoop. Don't try to hero by shooting inefficient long 2's. Just keep on driving especially now with the 3's going in the lane is going to free up a lot.
Not gonna lie, this version of Parker lately except the flailing drives is imho the best TP for the system that we have now. We don't need no hero.
not my style
not recognizing your bb analytical skills sooner was a mistake, from now on I will follow you more closely
I think Parker can make good passes as far as keeping the ball moving. Which as you said, would be him playing within the system. He swings the ball fine. I just don't think I ever much see him make that one pass that hits someone for the easy bucket. Other than on a fast break. I wouldn't have mentioned Kawaii a few weeks ago but the passes he made last night point to him having some of this innate ability to see the floor and make the creative assist. This is a part of his game that I didn't see before.
Parker is a long way from where he was 2 years ago IMO. I was screaming to trade him back then and he proved me wrong. He developed that mid range shot and his quickness seemed to still be there. But without that devastating quickness, it's going to be easier to play him straight up and defend a lot of those mid range jumpers.
It's also encouraging that the Spurs can play so well with him contributing so little (point wise). I think Mills and CoJo could be counted on to do an adequate job of replicating that. And Mills has the 3 point shot to augment his game.
Thanks. I'll make sure to PM you on all my other analysis that doesn't make it to the board. If you want, you can send me your email address as well.
Solid thread, tbh... hopefully it sticks to serious basketball discussion...
As I've said many times, I love Tony Parker, and now that he has his speed back, he looks poised to regain his leading role as a finisher at the rim. He's been very good at that throughout his career, that's why while his passing and shooting are very average, as long as he can get to the basket he can be exceptional for us. Outside of Tony and Manu, we really don't have many guards that are "naturals" when it comes to driving and finishing/kicking it out. Kawhi is still raw in this department and it's more power than smarts when it comes to driving it in, and Danny had his moments, but his generally poor ball handling and finishing skills make him less than ideal. So Tony has his value there, he fills a need for us.
The whole assist conundrum is more complicated. It's not the same to run a P&R with Tim than with Ayres or even Tiago. You need the great pass, but you also need the good finisher. Obviously, creating the easy shot is what is all about, and a great pass can go a long ways towards that, but it's not the whole story.
Right now the main concern I have with Tony since he showed improvement is his turnovers while penetrating. We already have Turnobili, can't afford to have Tony turning it over and then stay there ing at the refs while the other team runs in transition, something I've noticed he's done more prominently in the last few games. If he can clean that up, we'll be in good shape, IMO.
Yah, Parker's averaging 18.7 on .544 with 5.1 APG over the past 12 games. And his +/- has been amazing: +156 during just those games. If he can keep giving us that, we'll keep playing at an elite level.
We can all keep pretending like Parker's taking a backseat, but when you're putting up those numbers in this system, you're not exactly a role player.
I'm more worried about the timing of getting Ginobli back. Seems like whenever he returns from an injury, he really screws up the chemistry and momentum as he gets back into bball shape. Bad shots and turnovers are always part of his return. Spurs need him back but I"m concerned that they are going to drop some close games while everyone adjusts.
TP's regained some quickness for sure. But I think he's obviously slower than last season. Don't know if this is primarily a function of the injury or age. Hopefully the former. But I like how this has limited him to driving only when it's really there. When the good ball movement allows him a couple of steps down the lane for a teardrop. Or leaves him for an open jumper. Like the guy said above, don't need him to be a hero. And if the whole team is playing bad, at this point, I think KL is the first choice for iso and putting the game in one player's hands. If KL gets hot, the double team will have to come from a big which leaves one of ours open which in turn, the Spurs are adept at getting the ball to.
That's always a concern, but at the same time, I rather have all our guns, so I'm glad it was nothing more serious than a sprain. This team will eventually need a key shot or play from Gino if they're looking to repeat. He's in a lot of ways one of the catalysts, when he doesn't play well, we can't ring, but when he does play well, he's still a difference maker, as we all know by now.
Now that his speed is back I'm much less concerned about Tony, but for insurance purposes, it would be nice to see Patty regain his form from last season, tbh...
For the past couple of playoffs, we continually keep hearing about Tony playing injured... his hammy has been problematic, that's why you want to have some sort of insurance.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the right pass". What I noticed yesterday is that every time Parker went to the bench (usually replaced by Mills) the offense sputtered and stalled and the Spurs went to a lot of iso-crap type of plays. The lead would drop to +15 then +13 and Pop would send Parker back in and the lead would go back to a healthy +20. Not surprisingly Parker finished with the top +/- yesterday night.
Generally speaking there are two kinds of situations :
- half-court : in this setting Parker's job isn't to make the nice pass, but to be the engine of the system. He sets the tone perfectly, gets the offense running. After that we know the Spurs rely on everybody's passing ability and that the players are going to keep passing the ball until they get the best possible shot. At this point Parker is a cog in the machine like any other Spurs player. That's the way the system is designed, not one of Parker's shortcomings.
- fast break: Parker is one of the best fast break players in the league, so I imagine it's going to be hard for any other Spur to best his passing, court vision or decision-making ability in this context.
I think what you mean by "the right pass" is "a Sports Center pass", the way Duncan or Kawhi throw bombs in transition. Yeah, Parker doesn't do that. He never did, and never will. And it's good because that kind of pass has a higher risk of being intercepted/deflected, and lesser chance of drawing a foul. Parker runs fast breaks the smart way, and delivers.
Hmm seems like we won some games recently when kawhi and Parker both play well. Then there was one game where Parker didn't need to dominate. So I guess it's better if Parker doesn't score? I don't know really, these one game sample sizes confuse me.
How about just a simple idea....If Parker can dominate his guy he plays aggressive, if Parker can't or a better matchup exists have Parker pass.
The though of replacing Parker is pretty dumb.look at Dallas and rondo....you don't just sub a starting pg and expect no losses. Parker is bringing less to the team kawhi, but He's about as iimportant as everyone else.
Let's be honest. It depends on the game and series. Sometimes Parker absolutely has to set the tone. He has to drive and be successful at getting into the paint. The threat of Parker scoring will have to be there. Come playoff time Parker will have to be sharp. The Spurs rely on Parker to open up the perimeter.
I'd have to go back and look but I'm pretty sure that when Tony went out, so did other starters. And I think it was Marco that ed up it up for the most part. I don't remember Mills doing anything particularly bad. No..I don't mean a highlight pass. I think KL got a little lucky on the full court bounce pass. It was about an inch away from being a turnover. I'm talking about the solid entry passes that the Spurs bigs make to each other or that Manu and Kawaii put in the right place.
And I agree that on the fast break, Tony is as good as anyone. But I think that's a function of how much trouble he gives a defender in stopping the ball. His quickness (even today) makes him hard to stop or figure out what to do before it's too late.
Finally someone who gets it.
Truth nuke, tbh
Tony has been stalling the offense the whole year now. Nothing new.
Tony has been stalling the offense the whole year now. Nothing new.
lol no, any mediocre pg can do that. spurs don't need parker to win.
maybe because mills was playing with the bench. parker got carried by the starters, nothing new. kawhi had more assist than him.
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