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  1. #1
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    Obama rolled out his energy plan today in Michigan. Basically, he is calling for us to transform our economy in order to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It may be a tough plan to put into practice, but I can't imagine that any plan that's attempting to effect real change will be easy.

    * Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will increase fuel economy standards 4 percent per each year while protecting the financial future of domestic automakers....

    * Invest in Developing Advanced Vehicles and Put 1 Million Plugin Electric Vehicles on the Road by 2015: As a U.S. senator, Barack Obama has led efforts to jumpstart federal investment in advanced vehicles, including combined plug‐in hybrid/flexible fuel vehicles, which can get over 150 miles per gallon of gas... [more details below]

    * Partner with Domestic Automakers: Obama will also provide $4 billion retooling tax credits and
    loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that the new fuel‐efficient
    cars can be built in the U.S. by American workers rather than overseas.

    * Mandate All New Vehicles are Flexible Fuel Vehicles

    * Develop the Next Generation of Sustainable Biofuels and Infrastructure

    * Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: ... The standard requires fuels suppliers in 2010 to begin to reduce the carbon of their fuel by 5 percent within 5 years and 10 percent within 10 years.

    * Deploy the Cheapest, Cleanest, Fastest Energy Source--Energy Efficiency: Barack Obama will set an aggressive energy efficiency goal--to reduce electricity demand 15 percent from DOE's projected levels by 2020. Implementing this program will save consumers a total of $130 billion, reduce carbon dioxide emissions by more than 5 billion tons through 2030, and create jobs. A portion of this goal would be met by setting annual demand reduction targets that utilities would need to meet.

    * Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.

    * Overhaul Federal Efficiency Standards: The current Department of Energy has missed 34 deadlines for setting updated appliance efficiency standards....

    * Reduce Federal Energy Consumption: ... He will make the federal government a leader in the green building market, achieving a 40 percent increase in efficiency in all new federal buildings within five years and ensuring that all new federal buildings are zero‐emissions by 2025. He will invest in cost‐effective retrofits to achieve a 25 percent increase in efficiency of existing federal buildings within 5 years.

    * Invest in a Smart Grid: ... Obama will pursue a major investment in our national utility grid using smart metering, distributed storage and other advanced technologies to accommodate 21st century energy requirements: greatly improved electric grid reliability and security, a tremendous increase in renewable generation and greater customer choice and energy affordability.

    * Weatherize One Million Homes Annually....

    * Build More Livable and Sustainable Communities....

    * Flip Incentives to Energy Utilities: An Obama administration will "flip" incentives to utility companies by: requiring states to conduct proceedings to implement incentive changes; and offering them targeted technical assistance. These measures will benefit utilities for improving energy efficiency, rather than just from supporting higher energy consumption. This "regulatory equity" starts with the decoupling of profits from increased energy usage, which will incentivize utilities to partner with consumers and the federal and state governments to reduce monthly energy bills for families and businesses. The federal government under an Obama administration will play an important and positive role in flipping the profit model for the utility sector so that shareholder profit is based on reliability and performance as opposed to total production.

    * Require 10 Percent of Electricity to Come from Renewable Sources by 2012 [and 25 percent by 2025]. Barack Obama will establish a 10 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 10 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2012. Many states are already well on their way to achieving statewide goals and it's time for the federal government to provide leadership for the entire country to support these new industries. This national requirement will spur significant private sector investment in renewable sources of energy and create thousands of new American jobs, especially in rural areas. And Obama will also extend the federal Production Tax Credit (PTC) for 5 years to encourage the production of renewable energy.

    * Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology....

    * Safe and Secure Nuclear Energy: ... It is unlikely that we can meet our aggressive climate goals if we eliminate nuclear power as an option. However, before an expansion of nuclear power is considered, key issues must be addressed including: security of nuclear fuel and waste, waste storage, and proliferation.... As president, Obama will make safeguarding nuclear material both abroad and in the U.S. a top anti‐terrorism priority. In terms of waste storage, Obama does not believe that Yucca Mountain is a suitable site. He will lead federal efforts to look for safe, long‐term disposal solutions based on objective, scientific analysis. In the meantime, Obama will develop requirements to ensure that the waste stored at current reactor sites is contained using the most advanced dry‐cask storage technology available.

    He also repeats his climate pledge and his jobs pledge:

    * Implement an economy‐wide cap‐and‐trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

    * Invest In A Clean Energy Economy and Help Create 5 Million New Green Jobs. Obama will strategically invest $150 billion over 10 years...

    As president, Obama will continue this leadership by investing in advanced vehicle technology with a specific focus on R&D in advanced battery technology. The increased federal funding will leverage private sector funds and support our domestic automakers to bring plug‐in hybrids and other advanced vehicles to American consumers. Obama will also provide a $7,000 tax credit for the purchase of advanced technology vehicles as well as conversion tax credits. And to help create a market and show government leadership in purchasing highly efficient cars, an Obama administration will commit to:

    * Within one year of becoming President, the entire White House fleet will be converted to plug‐ins as security permits; and

    * Half of all cars purchased by the federal government will be plug‐in hybrids or all‐electric by 2012.

  2. #2
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    since we'll open drilling offshore, (merely to sell to other countries that will have nothing to do with american oil independence) we could make a deal with china regarding all the rickshaws they have just sitting idle.

  3. #3
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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  4. #4
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This is the best proposal for a sound energy policy that I have seen from any of the major candidates.

    The best and fastest way to reduce our dependence on foreign energy is to encourage efficiency gains, and this plan has that as a priority. A lot of "bang for the buck" here, with some solid investments that offer the potential for creation of US-based jobs.

  5. #5
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    Obama rolled out his energy plan today in Michigan. Basically, he is calling for us to transform our economy in order to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It may be a tough plan to put into practice, but I can't imagine that any plan that's attempting to effect real change will be easy.
    dumb plan. Let me guess this, the govt spends huge reserves on investing in alternative energy grids, auto technology, and the like, which will probably yeild no profit in the shorterm.

    Then if OPEC really wanted to with us, they could boost supply for 3 years, have americans stop the purchase of overpriced fuel cars, and be back in square one.

    Gey!!


    John McCain's plan of both conservation and drilling the sheep anus out of our own supply is more sensible.

    Seriously, who writes Obama's policies? I know there are probably some ivy league men in there, but it sound as if the Obama campaign held a contest for Nickolodeon viewers to submit plans on saving energy, and the winner got an Icarly squiggly pen and a trip to Orlando studios, plus the chance to write Americas energy solution.

  6. #6
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    dumb plan. Let me guess this, the govt spends huge reserves on investing in alternative energy grids, auto technology, and the like, which will probably yeild no profit in the shorterm.

    Then if OPEC really wanted to with us, they could boost supply for 3 years, have americans stop the purchase of overpriced fuel cars, and be back in square one.

    So your argument is that we shouldn't make any changes to our economy because if OPEC increases supply we will have plenty of oil but be stuck with useless alternative fuel technology?

  7. #7
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    So your argument is that we shouldn't make any changes to our economy because if OPEC increases supply we will have plenty of oil but be stuck with useless alternative fuel technology?
    IF changes didn't cost much, then i could care less. What the govt is doing is investing in endeavours of which the private sector hasn't seen much potential yet.

    Hybrid cars being the exception, but that's been done with private money.

    The government shouldn't only be worried about a risky longterm solution. It should worry about covering all it's bases in case things do not form the way planned.

    In the early 80's oil cost took a nosedive after riding high throughout the latter part of the 70's.

    Companies that invested in drilling on american soil lost their money, investment and cutback jobs.

    We just can't say here's the solution, new technology!

    We need to have everything done conservatively. Drilling for our supply, new technology and conservation. Those are McCain's plans of which he has spoken.

    McCain is more reliable to follow through those plans. Obama's ideology does not permit it, we would have to trust that he will rise above partisan ideology to do such thing, if you look at his voting record, it gives no hope.

  8. #8
    Orange Whip? Orange Whip? Viva Las Espuelas's Avatar
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    i know i'm ready for it



  9. #9
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    McCain is more reliable to follow through those plans. Obama's ideology does not permit it, we would have to trust that he will rise above partisan ideology to do such thing, if you look at his voting record, it gives no hope.
    Recent events belie your assertion. Obama is the candidate supporting the bipartisan energy bill that currently being held up in Congress, even though he doesn't agree with everything in it. McCain opposes it because he says he doesn't agree with repealing the tax breaks the oil companies have received in the past. So which candidate is letting ideology stand in the way of progress?
    Last edited by Mr. Peabody; 08-05-2008 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    i know i'm ready for it

    There are none so blind....

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...0.html?cnn=yes
    The Tire-Gauge Solution: No Joke
    By Michael Grunwald

    How out of touch is Barack Obama? He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point; Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.

    But who's really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

    In fact, Obama's actual energy plan is much more than a tire gauge. But that's not what's so pernicious about the tire-gauge attacks. Politics ain't beanbag, and Obama has defended himself against worse smears. The real problem with the attacks on his tire-gauge plan is that efforts to improve conservation and efficiency happen to be the best approaches to dealing with the energy crisis — the cheapest, cleanest, quickest and easiest ways to ease our addiction to oil, reduce our pain at the pump and address global warming. It's a pretty simple concept: if our use of fossil fuels is increasing our reliance on Middle Eastern dictators while destroying the planet, maybe we ought to use less.

  11. #11
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    Why do the board conservatives make fun of checking tire pressure? Isn't energy conservation "conservative"?

  12. #12
    The Wheel Is Turning... shelshor's Avatar
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    IIRC improper tire pressure was blamed as a leading cause of SUV tires separating, which caused a lot of the roll over acccidents

  13. #13
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    This is the best proposal for a sound energy policy that I have seen from any of the major candidates.

    The best and fastest way to reduce our dependence on foreign energy is to encourage efficiency gains, and this plan has that as a priority. A lot of "bang for the buck" here, with some solid investments that offer the potential for creation of US-based jobs.


    Except for the fact that 1) he's short on details and 2) some of them are impossible, unless he's going to throw a trillion dollars at the problem just to get it done.

    Weatherize One Million Homes Annually....
    Who pays the bill and who decides which million homes get weatherized? that. People should be responsible for weatherizing their own homes, not sit on their asses and wait for government to do it.

    More of the liberal 'the government needs to do everything for the people because they're too ing stupid to do it for themselves' stuff...

    * Build More Livable and Sustainable Communities....
    How? Are you saying that our communities aren't livable or sustainable?

  14. #14
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Why do the board conservatives make fun of checking tire pressure? Isn't energy conservation "conservative"?

    Why do dumb Liberals, like Barry, think we don't have enough sense to check our tires on our own. Well, maybe you do.

  15. #15
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    Why do dumb Liberals, like Barry, think we don't have enough sense to check our tires on our own. Well, maybe you do.
    Obama brought it up to illustrate how tire pressure/tune ups saves more oil than the proposed offshore drilling would produce. So if you guys think checking tire pressure is laughable and stupid, what does that make offshore drilling?

  16. #16
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Obama brought it up to illustrate how tire pressure/tune ups saves more oil than the proposed offshore drilling would produce. So if you guys think checking tire pressure is laughable and stupid, what does that make offshore drilling?
    Typical lib. Do both. Comprehensive energy plan shouldn't just mean do what Obama wants to do or else.

  17. #17
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    Typical lib. Do both. Comprehensive energy plan shouldn't just mean do what Obama wants to do or else.
    Energy conservation has real cost savings that are felt immediately. Offshore drilling's effects won't be felt for 15+ years. (yeah, I know - drilling will produce a "psychological effect" that will reduce prices, right? )

    Tires/tune-ups don't put shorelines at risk either.

  18. #18
    Believe. NASCARdad's Avatar
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    Nuclear is the way to go. The risk is worth it.

  19. #19
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    Energy conservation has real cost savings that are felt immediately. Offshore drilling's effects won't be felt for 15+ years. (yeah, I know - drilling will produce a "psychological effect" that will reduce prices, right? )

    Tires/tune-ups don't put shorelines at risk either.
    I'm sorry you don't have a clue about speculation.

  20. #20
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you don't have a clue about speculation.
    I'm sorry you think speculation trumps supply and demand.

  21. #21
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Energy conservation has real cost savings that are felt immediately. Offshore drilling's effects won't be felt for 15+ years. (yeah, I know - drilling will produce a "psychological effect" that will reduce prices, right? )

    Tires/tune-ups don't put shorelines at risk either.
    This is such bull . If they gave oil cos the go ahead continental shelf oil would be at the pumps in less than three years.

    Put shorelines at risk? When's the last time oil ed up the shores of Texas and Louisiana. Damn, one of the strongest hurricanes of all time (Katrina) plowed through the Gulf oil rig patch on its way to New Orleans and there wasn't a drop leaked.

    But go ahead, keep talking out your ass, it's what you libs do best here.

  22. #22
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    By the way, McCain has called for over 40 new nuclear power plants to be built by the year 2030. Meanwhile, Obama's pussy footing around the nuclear issue saying 'we need to talk about it some more.'

    that. Start building.

  23. #23
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    This is such bull . If they gave oil cos the go ahead continental shelf oil would be at the pumps in less than three years.

    Put shorelines at risk? When's the last time oil ed up the shores of Texas and Louisiana. Damn, one of the strongest hurricanes of all time (Katrina) plowed through the Gulf oil rig patch on its way to New Orleans and there wasn't a drop leaked.

    But go ahead, keep talking out your ass, it's what you libs do best here.
    Talking out of your ass? You mean parroting right wing noise?
    “Not One Drop Of Oil Spilled”? Not Quite
    Analysis: Advocates Repeat False Claim About Environmental Safety Of Offshore Drilling


    July 19, 2008
    (CBS) By CBSNews.com producer David Morgan.

    It has been a common talking point among advocates of increasing offshore oil drilling that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita caused no environmental damage when they decimated the oil infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico in 2005.

    This is aimed at assuaging the fears of many who believe opening up additional tracts of offshore areas to oil exploration will pose hazards to the environment and to tourism.

    Ever since President Bush and Sen. John McCain announced last month that they would support expanding drilling beyond currently-allowed offshore leases (and Mr. Bush even signed an executive order allowing it), officials and pundits have continually put forth a dramatic talking point in the media about the safety of offshore drilling, even in the midst of a natural disaster.

    As former Sen. Trent Lott told MSNBC on Tuesday, "We didn't have one drop of oil spilt when we had the biggest hurricane in, you know, recent history, Hurricane Katrina."

    Former Gov. Mike Huckabee, R-Ark., also told Fox News on June 27, "When Katrina, a Cat-5 hurricane, hit the Gulf Coast, not one drop of oil was spilled off of those rigs out in the Gulf of Mexico. So we know that the technology to drill offshore is extraordinarily safe and environmentally friendly. And it's not something that we have to be as worried about as we do a refinery on shore or some other type of issue."

    Newspaper columnists and editorial boards also jumped on the "not one drop" bandwagon. The Wall Street Journal published an editorial on June 12 saying, "Hurricanes Katrina and Rita flattened terminals across the Gulf of Mexico but didn't cause a single oil spill."

    Meanwhile, on Monday Nancy Pfotenhauer, an energy lobbyist and senior energy adviser to McCain, said on MSNBC, "We withstood Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, and we didn't spill a drop."

    And the Washington Post on Monday quoted Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., as saying, "I think people are reassured that not a drop of oil was spilled during Katrina or Rita. Those rigs in the Gulf, there was not a single incident of spillage that anyone reported."

    Others have used slightly hedged terms, such as Gov. Bobby Jindal, R-La., who told Fox News on June 26, "That’s one of the great unwritten success stories, after Katrina and Rita, these awful storms - no major spills." And Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne told the Fox Business Channel, "When Katrina and Rita hit the Gulf Coast where we have about 4,000 oil and gas platforms … we had no significant oil spill." (July 15)

    Gee, if so many people believe it, it must be true - except it isn’t.

    In May 2006, the U.S. Minerals Management Service (MMS) issued a report stating that as a result of both Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, the number of pipelines damaged was 457, and the number of offshore platforms destroyed was 113, with a total of 146 oil spills recorded.

    A study of environmental impacts written for MMS by Det Norske Veritas and Company and published March 22, 2007 told an even more detailed story.

    As a result of both storms, a total volume of 17,652 barrels (or roughly three-quarters of a million gallons) of total petroleum products, of which 13,137 barrels were crude oil and condensate, was spilled from platforms, rigs and pipelines. 4,514 barrels were refined products from platforms and rigs.

    There were 542 reports related to offshore pipelines that were damaged or displaced, of which 72 resulted in spills that had a volume of one barrel or more of crude oil or condensate. These pipelines were reported to be dented, kinked, pulled up, twisted or bent, pinhole or valve leaks or other damages.


    The 72 pipeline spills were accountable for about 7,300 barrels of crude oil and condensate spilled into the Gulf.

    The report noted that response and recovery efforts kept the environmental impacts to a minimum, with no onshore impacts from these specific spill events.

    However, MMS also noted that an estimated 8 million gallons (or 191,000 barrels) of oil was spilled from nine onshore facilities in the Louisiana Delta, where large holding tanks were breached by Katrina.

    The graphic below shows all 542 pipeline damages reported for both Hurricanes Katrina (299 reports) and Rita (243). Damaged pipelines are in red; undamaged active pipelines are shown in gray. Pipeline breaks accounted for approximately half of the more than 17,000 barrels of oil leaked into the Gulf. (Source: MMS)

  24. #24
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    By the way, McCain has called for over 40 new nuclear power plants to be built by the year 2030. Meanwhile, Obama's pussy footing around the nuclear issue saying 'we need to talk about it some more.'

    that. Start building.
    Can we store the radioactive waste in your backyard?

    I don't have any kneejerk objection to nuclear energy, but I'm not cavalier enough to say " it, just build em" either.

    When it comes to figuring out how to store and manage materials that remain radioactive for thousands of years, maybe we should "talk about it some more" before we "just start in' building them".
    Last edited by PixelPusher; 08-05-2008 at 10:50 PM.

  25. #25
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    Nope. Not one drop. No sir...

    http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/phot...oil_spill.html





    click to enlarge
    Last edited by PixelPusher; 08-05-2008 at 10:47 PM.

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