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not all that suprising. Our military is made up of a cross-section of the U.S. population as a whole, which also spends above their income and don't save.
Source article
Troops' debt a growing security concern
By THOMAS WATKINS, Associated Press Writer
38 minutes ago
SAN DIEGO - Thousands of U.S. troops are being barred from overseas duty because they are so deep in debt they are considered security risks, according to an Associated Press review of military records.
The number of troops held back has climbed dramatically in the past few years. And while they appear to represent a very small percentage of all U.S. military personnel, the increase is occurring at a time when the armed forces are stretched thin by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"We are seeing an alarming trend in degrading financial health," said Navy Capt. Mark D. Patton, commanding officer at San Diego's Naval Base Point Loma.
The Pentagon contends financial problems can distract personnel from their duties or make them vulnerable to bribery and treason. As a result, those who fall heavily into debt can be stripped of the security clearances they need to go overseas.
While the number of revoked clearances has surged since the beginning of the Iraq war, military officials say there is no evidence that service members are deliberately running up debts to stay out of harm's way.
Officials also say the increase has not undermined the military's fighting ability, though some say it has complicated the job of assembling some of the units needed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
The problem is attributed to a lack of financial smarts among recruits; reckless spending among those exhilarated to make it home alive from a tour of duty; and the profusion of "payday lenders" — businesses that allow military personnel to borrow against their next paycheck at extremely high interest rates.
The debt problems persist despite crackdowns on payday lenders and the financial counseling the Pentagon routinely offers to the troops.
Data supplied to the AP by the Navy, Marines and Air Force show that the number of clearances revoked for financial reasons rose every year between 2002 and 2005, climbing ninefold from 284 at the start of the period to 2,654 last year. Partial numbers from this year suggest the trend continues.
More than 6,300 troops in the three branches lost their clearances during that four-year period. Roughly 900,000 people are serving in the three branches, though not all need clearances.
The figures gathered by the AP represent just a piece of problem, because the Army — which employs an additional 500,000 people and accounts for the vast majority of the 160,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan — rejected repeated requests over the past month to supply its data, saying such information is confidential.
At Point Loma, Patton said clearance revocations in key areas such as military police forces have gotten so common that he often looks for two sailors to fill a single posting.
Still, Patton said he had never heard of anyone racking up bills to get out of combat. "There are folks who find ways of avoiding being deployed, as there always will be, but I've never seen any do it through finances," he said.
Security clearances are revoked when service members' debt payments amount to 30 percent to 40 percent of their salary. The exact amount depends on the military branch.
There are three levels of clearance — confidential, secret and top secret. Not all troops need clearance. Marine infantrymen don't, but some Marine specialists, such as those in intelligence, do. So do many jobs in the Navy and Air Force.
Financial problems are the overwhelming reason security clearances are revoked. Other reasons include criminal activity, questionable allegiance and ill health.
A key reason the military revokes clearances on financial grounds is the fear that soldiers in debt might be tempted to sell secrets or equipment to the enemy.
Also, "when they are over there fighting, we like them to have their heads in the game," said Maj. Gen. Michael Lehnert, commander of Marine Corps bases in the western United States. "We like to have them ... not worrying about whether or not they are going to be able to make the mortgage payment or car payment."
Members of the brass also blame runaway interest rates at payday lending businesses, many of which are clustered outside bases around the country. Several states have cracked down on payday lending practices, and on Tuesday, President Bush signed legislation limiting how much these businesses can charge military personnel.
Some personnel fall into debt upon returning from combat.
"It can be hard to cut that sense of elation and desire to live for the moment," Lehnert said. "Some tend to get themselves overextended financially."
Also, when they go to war, they get combat pay, and none of their income is taxed. That can lead them to overspend when they come home.
Patton said that like other services, the Navy offers zero-interest emergency loans. Also, military personnel commonly take money-management classes as part of basic training.
"Every time we go in and do an indoctrination brief, there is instruction or training in place to give them some of the pitfalls of debt," said Terry Harris, a personal finance educator at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida. "We do inform them about the pitfalls of security clearances being lost to that."
The increase in finance-related revocations could actually be a good sign — it could reflect greater awareness among the troops, according to Chief Master Sgt. Rodney J. McKinley, the Air Force's highest-ranking noncommissioned officer.
"We have a few more people coming forward and saying, `Hey, I'm having some financial difficulty and need help,' versus going down the other path where they keep so quiet," McKinley said.
not all that suprising. Our military is made up of a cross-section of the U.S. population as a whole, which also spends above their income and don't save.
"cross-section of the U.S. population"
no, from the lower sections of society, unedecuated, unemployed, poorly employed, rural, "urban". $40K signup bonuses is probably 2+ years civilian salary for a lot of them.
How many people with good paying jobs go join the military? with high-paying jobs?
Last edited by boutons_; 10-19-2006 at 11:01 PM.
If that's all it takes, there go some credit ratings.
That is the tendency, to be sure, but a bit of an oversimplification. Reality is a bit different, with a more diverse group than you seem to think.
You really don't have a clue about the people that make up the military, do you?
I'm sure a very large majority of signups since the war began, and certainly not in the last 18 months, have been from the lowest economic ranks.
The Army careerists, the "professiona Army" that has been so carefully built and hyped since VN (ie, the non-conscript Army), would have more from the middle classes, esp in the non-combat services.
How typical is it for somebody to walk away from a $75K job to go fight a war of choice?
Interesting Reading
Excerpt:
Put simply, the current makeup of the all-vol*untary military looks like America. Where they are different, the data show that the average sol*dier is slightly better educated and comes from a slightly wealthier, more rural area. We found that the military (and Army specifically) included a higher proportion of blacks and lower propor*tions of other minorities but a proportionate num*ber of whites. More important, we found that recruiting was not drawing disproportionately from racially concentrated areas.
18-19 year olds don't have $75k per year jobs.
You are a bit wrong about the make-up of the current army, as the previous poster pointed out.
The military is still a way out of poverty, but it is far from exploitive of the poor as past conscript armies have been.
"18-19 year olds don't have $75k per year jobs."
I didn't say they did. But if they, or anybody else did, they wouldn't go join the Army.
The Army and Marines are just not a magnets for the best and brightest. The Air Force and Navy probaby attract higher caliber.
Of course he doesn't. He just talking out of his ass like he does on every other subject. If he cannot find an article to post, he simply makes up and throws it out there.
one robin doesn't mean it's spring
Science smart. Common sense dumb. Good luck kid.
And why do you say he lacks common sense?
To be killed in Iraq is a less than noble cause. Don't go kid.
Yeah, standing up for what you believe and doing what you believe is necessary and good for the country you proudly call home is so not noble.
In fact, thinking you can help America by enlisting in the military so that you can do your part to win a war and bring everyone home, gosh, that's just stupid too.
I think it's pretty clear that clambake doesn't support the war (which is fine), but now I know that he also doesn't support our troops.
Trying to protect our kids from the incompetence of the president IS supporting the troops.
I don't want our kids die for his fake, dirty little war.
Why don't you go and take his place? Or do you just talk a good game?
This is just another excuse for people's bad behavior. "It's not my fault because (fill in the blank)." We all have a conscience and know right from wrong. These guys are pissed because God-fearing conservative Christians have been blessed by God with material wealth - so they exact their revenge. The fact that they then go get themselves wrapped up in debt shows they are greedy, and they don't want to live within their means and pay for things. They are stealing from the taxpayers!
I love this argument, "if you support the war so much, why don't you go take his place"? First of all, find me a post in which I said I thought the war in Iraq was a good idea. Secondly, find me another post in which I implied that I would go over and be in the military. Can't find either one eh? Huh, funny how that works.
Face it chief, you want us to lose the war and you don't want people to enlist in the military because you don't care about the soldiers needing to be "spelled" from time to time.
Gee, ES, I guess my words were good enough for you to copy (see thread about Gulf War Vet dismembering girlfriend).However, the little changes you made are not very original or humorous! It also doesn't make ANY sense.
Gee, ES, I guess my words were good enough for you to copy (see thread about Gulf War Vet dismembering girlfriend).
I thought that looked familiar.
OK.Gee, ES, I guess my words were good enough for you to copy (see thread about Gulf War Vet dismembering girlfriend).
Last edited by Extra Stout; 10-20-2006 at 02:37 PM.
I disagree, I thought it was dumb.
OK, then it was dumb. It must not have expressed what I wanted to convey.
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