Reply With Quote
Lets let Kobe get MVP. It will be so much sweeter when we whip his ass in the playoffs.
Starting a team right now to win a championship anytime in next three years give me Duncan over Kobe or James anytime.*
In reality the MVP race is a popularity contest but Duncan's 20/11/2 should at least be there in the discussion - he is supported by Manu's greatness and Parkers verve and talents but he is still the MAN in the NBA. EVery candidate for MVP this year has at least one all star or former all star playing with him and many of the candidates have never proven they can win playoff series without another top tier superstar (excepting James whom I would take over Kobe personally if I could not have Duncan due his versatality, size, and > upside).
What Duncan does in a quiet fashion is lead and there is no accident in the fact that since he came in the league no superstar (and he is one of one 3-4 in league who can make that claim justly) has ever had a higher winning percentage over a comparable time - Not only in the NBA but in the history of compe ive sports.
He is that *&^% good and yet the pundits take him for granted. He will however make his name again on the most signficant part of the NBA schedule when he will probably do something "insane" again like block 9 shots (as he did in the closeout game with the Suns).
Lets let Kobe get MVP. It will be so much sweeter when we whip his ass in the playoffs.
My point is he should at least be in the discussion he is still the best player on the top team in the W.
Of course he should be in the discussion. Manu Ginobili SHOULD have been an all-star. Bruce Bowen SHOULD have been DPOY like 3 or 4 times by now.
The Spurs SHOULD be given more respect in general.
no surprises here.
Even when Timmy got his two MVPs, he never made a big deal about it. He appreciated being appreciated, but he made it clear in all his words and actions that winning an MVP was not what it was all about. It is about winning championships, and being the best team player possible.
I'm not going to argue that Kobe probably deserves an MVP this year. He's never won one, and he's won championships in the past; and this year clearly he is the MVP of a winning team. But even he knows what it's all about. Like Shaq, his highest priority is keeping up with Tim in the number of rings on his fingers. Kobe is dying for another, and Shaq wants to pass Timmy so badly that he's trying to will himself to another run with Nash. Good luck to Shaq, but his time is probably past; and we'll see if in the playoffs Kobe and the Lakers can execute at the same level of efficiency as the Spurs. Doubtful, but the game is played on the court, not in blogs.
The point being: Timmy is still the standard by which all of today's superstars measure themselves. No one is going to catch up with Russell, but today's NBA is bigger, faster and more compe ive, so that's okay. Right now, Timmy's the "man."
Last edited by oboymeetsogirl; 03-05-2008 at 12:17 PM.
keep the pictures of your girlfriend to yourself.
My point being: even if Kobe gets his well deserved MVP, the true "winner" is the guy holding up the O'Brien in the end. Good luck to you Laker fans, but if you meet the Spurs in the playoffs you'll have a tall order: playing against the same core that fought the Shaq-days Lakers to a stand-off, only this time you won't have the Shaq-daddy. It will be your recently revamped squad against an equally (or more) talented Spurs team with far, far more experience playing together.
Like I said: the game is played on the court, not in blogs. See you in May!
I find it funny when people want to compare players "regardless of their team, only on their individual talents." This is the angle most Duncan-haters take, that he is overrated because his team makes him seem better than he is.
The reality is that basketball is a TEAM sport and no player exists as an island to himself. For example, now that Marion is gone, Steve Nash is a different player, with different statistics and characteristics. This goes to show how people like Hollinger are so "misguided." They analyze statistics as if the players existed separate from their team. In Baseball, the batter faces the pitcher, and in that moment, it is "man against man." But in basketball, everything is about team. A low post player can only make his move if someone feeds him the ball in the right position. Steve Nash has huge numbers of assists (in the past) because of the type of plays he ran with Marion. Take Marion off the team and his stats change.
For all these reasons I find it pointless to say who is the "best" player in the NBA. You can say that Duncan and Shaq are the most "successful." And you can also compare players who play the same position and have similar skills. But to do so, you would have to watch a lot of basketball games, not look at a lot of box scores.
I wouldnt say "most"...just the few quality ones.Isn't this what most women in San Antonio look like?
Go SPURS Go
I agree, barbacoataco. My point was that even Shaq, like Timmy and Kobe, would say that the "best" player is the one who gets his team to the final end: the Larry O'Brien trophy.
This is what bothers Nash no end -- he's got the individual honors, but not the Big One. I feel for Suns fans -- they got a big guy, but had to give up Marion. Obviously, they're especially hurting in perimeter defense, because now they've got to score even *more* points now that Marion isn't locking down on other teams' best forwards or guards; and it's hard to do that with Shaq plodding along.
My guess: d'Antoni will find a way to utilize Shaq better by actually slowing the game up a little, and running at more appropriate times (like the days when an ancient Kareem played with the Showtime Lakers). I think they have to make other teams grind it out more, which is to Shaq's advantage.
But hey, I'm a Spurs man, not a Suns, so what do I know? But that doesn't keep me from being a huge admirer of Nash (although he scares the out of me when he goes up against the Spurs), so I only wish you Suns fans the best. In fact, you can do us all a favor by beating up on the Lakers if you happen to meet them first in the playoffs.
The discussions about the NBA's best player are intended to generate additional interest in teams that won't win the Championship.
Except when Michael Jordan won it or Magic Johnson....yeah I get your point.... ugh.
I like that Rasheed Wallace quote, Medvedenko. The Pistons are a perfect example of a championship team that simply doesn't give a damn about individual accolades. They just go out and rip your face. I'm kinda pulling for the Celtics to win the East this year; but really, the way the Pistons are going this year it doesn't seem likely. Spurs fans know they are the one team that match them in experience and guts, so I also would almost prefer to see the Pistons in the finals just to see where everyone stands these days...
A lot of fans and "experts" thought that Lebron was the best player in the game/unstoppable after he went off on the Pistons last year. But the Spurs made him look pretty average in the Finals.
To the person who compared ancient Kareem/Lakers to the Shaq/Suns situation. Kareem could ALWAYS run up and down the court, even when he was old.
i got kinda irked when i saw skip bayless on 1st and 10 yesterday say neither kobe or lebron were the mvps, and that it was tim duncan, and to immediately have the other 3 hosts start laughing and saying he was crazy.
i mean seriously... the mention of tim duncan, one of the best players and playoff performers in nba history... 2 time mvp... 3 time finals mvp... has given money shots to basically every dominant player in the nba the last 10 years... warrants laughter?
are you ing ting me?
I think that was me mentioning Kareem as being slow during his last few years, barbacoataco. You and I agree on most everything, but I was a Laker fan during the Showtime years, watching virtually every game. Yes, Kareem could get down the court, but more often than not he didn't reach his post-up spot until after the first or second pass. And of course, there were the zillions of times Kareem barely reached half-court by the time a shot was put up (watching Yao these days sometimes reminds me of that).
But you know what? Neither Magic, Byron, James, coach Riles or we Lakers fans gave a damn, because if there was one thing we knew it was that Kareem would be there when it counted. During his last two years, all he was asked was to sky-hook for his average 12-15 points, contest shots, pull down his 10 pg rebounds, and trigger the vaunted Showtime fast break.
Question is, can Shaq play that role? Like Kareem, I don't think it's necessary for Shaq to be in on every fast break. But it seems to me that Kareem style play is what Kerr had in mind when he brought him over, and now d'Antoni has to figure out exactly how to make that happen. For the sake of Suns fans, I hope it's soon...
Duncan is the most valuable player in the NBA.
If the Spurs didn't have Duncan, their leading rebounder would be Oberto, pulling down 5.5 per game. With Duncan, the Spurs lead the NBA in defensive rebounding.
Without Duncan, the leading shot-blocker would be Horry, at 0.5 per game. With Duncan, the Spurs are the #2 defensive team in the NBA.
Without Duncan, the Spurs would have no rebounding or shot-blocking, the Spurs would be below .500, and would be a lottery team.
With Duncan, the Spurs have the best record in the Western conference.
This is value. Duncan has more of it than anyone else. Lebron in a distant 2nd, well ahead of Kobe.
Well put, Galileo... even we Spurs fans need to be reminded in raw figures what Duncan means to this team...
But if I may add: don't forget the way Timmy "quarterbacks" the Spurs, talking to each player on the court, calling out the switches on defense, giving the pep talks on the bench, working overtime in practice, leading by following Pop's lead, pumping everybody back up or cracking a joke when things are looking bad... on and on.
These are the intangibles that Manu, Tony, Fin, and everyone else on the squad depend upon for Timmy to execute. It's a huge media myth that Duncan is a stone face who just "goes about his business." This team has thrived on Timmy's leadership for years. Yes, you can say that this may even be the difference should the Spurs meet the Lakers in the playoffs. They say Kobe has been taking on more of a role of leader and mentor this year; but is it enough and on time to make this a championship year for his team?
I'm a Spurs man, so I say no. Unfortunately, the chip on Kobe's shoulder will always be a detriment, and the selfless Timmy has been playing his role a lot longer. So we *have* to give his team the edge all the time.
Last edited by oboymeetsogirl; 03-05-2008 at 03:22 PM.
I don't get this "Timmy gets no respect" stuff. He gets plenty of respect around the league. It's just mainly the media always looking for the next Jordan type. Yeah, a lot of the players say Kobe is the best in the league but if you ask who they would start a franchise with most that have a clue would choose a big man. Timmy doesn't really give the media much to work with either.
By his choice.
From a Sports Illustrated article from '05 that I just posted in the "Profanity" thread:
Still, there is another, simpler reason why Duncan is not more popular: He doesn't want to be. That's why he offers up meaningless quotes in a monotone voice, why he turns down offers to be on magazine covers flexing his bicep, why he is perfectly happy with the fact that you may know nothing, or next to nothing, about his family and his personal life. Think about it: He's one of the best, if not the best, player in the NBA, he's winning championships, he's getting paid like a Sultan and he's playing for the best organization in the league. What is another $10 million in endorsements going to do for his life? How are more screaming fans going to make him happier? Why in the world would he want to be a superstar, if what we really mean by that -- and by 'we' I mean the media and the fans -- is a marketable superstar? It may seem unlikely in celebrity-saturated America, but Duncan is opting out of the culture of idolatry. And, in spite of his superior skills, that may be the most remarkable thing about him.
Exactly, so his fan bois should stop all this no respect nonsense. I'm a Laker fan and Tim is one of my favorite players. I also find him pretty funny guy but if Tim doesn't want the attention why do his fan bois insist on it?
What is Tim Duncan not giving the media??? The only thing going against him is the market he plays in. If this guy was winning les with the Knicks, he'd be the face of the NBA. Ewing hated the media but he was covered non-stop because it was New York. People say Duncan is boring to talk too, well who is exciting to talk too?? When did Kobe become an exciting interview, unless he is whining about a trade or denying rape charges. Lebron, he's boring to talk too, he doesn't tell you much of anything about himself. Tim's lack of mega attention is all about the market he plays in.
I would say that the market he plays in is part of it.
His own choice to be selective in his endorsment choices and to protect his privacy play big roles too. (See my last post in this thread.)
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
