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Both flukes. Start a franchise with Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton, and Adam Morrison for guaranteed multiple championships.
I had a debate the other night with a friend of mine, and basically it began who is the first player you would start building a team around. He said Magic Johnson. I said its between Jordan, or Tim Duncan. Then he said he would rather start a team with Shaq than Duncan, and I strongly disagreed with that. And as we were each stating our points, one point I brought out is that Duncan is a better passer, especially when double teamed, which is one of the biggest reasons that he is the greatest teammate of all time and is why I want him before Shaq. He is better at making players around him better, than Shaq is. However, he insists that Duncan isn't any better of a passer than Shaq.
Thoughts?
Both flukes. Start a franchise with Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton, and Adam Morrison for guaranteed multiple championships.
You forgot Big Country.
This is a great question. Assists don’t tell the whole story, of course, since Duncan and Shaq are both great at making the pass that leads to the assist, which is sometimes the most crucial pass. Nevertheless, it’s telling that Duncan’s assist numbers are better than Shaq’s, even though Shaq’s teams normally averaged more points per game than Duncan's. And Duncan’s patience when double-teamed always impresses me, no matter how many times I watch him.
Something else that’s relevant is that Duncan has shown that he can win a le, as the best player on the court, with very different supporting casts. (Magic was the same way, as was Russell.) I think this is a key factor when thinking seriously about who you’d start a team with. You can’t say the same for Shaq (although admittedly, when he had the perfect pieces around him, as in LA, he was well-nigh unstoppable).
Duncans B-Ball IQ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shaq's B-Ball IQ
Duncan always makes the perfect pass at the perfect time. He has amazing court vision, and always knows where and when the pass needs to be kicked out.
Your friend is a moron.
Passing being what it is, I'd take Duncan because he's always been a better defender. He's not always the intimidator that Shaq is, but possession-in and possession-out, Tim's among the greatest defenders to ever play the game; Shaq isn't even close in that regard.
I'm sorry, has the off-season begun?
#1 Shaq is able to pass as well as he does mostly because of his sheer size. Dude can see the whole court even if he's triple teamed. Not to mention his tree trunk size arms, shoulders and elbows which help him get all the space he needs.
#2 Tim makes passes that are condusive to the flow of the game and the offensive sets and general gameplan of the Spurs. Whereas in my opinion Shaq is simply good at dishing off to cutters.
Personally, I would build a team around Eric Dampier.
I say Tim Duncan
Tim Duncan wasn't as good a passer earlier in his career, but learning from the Lakers defeat earlier in the century, Duncan starting becoming a very effective passer since 03 or so.
I think it's probably a more accurate statement to say that Duncan is a better facilitator on offense than to say that he is a better passer.
Shaq is the better passer. For much of his career, he's been an underrated passer. He has very good vision for a center, can make tough passes in traffic in the paint, and he has better touch on the basketball than given credit for.
And, as for building a team around, I'd also take Shaq. He was just the more dominating player. He was as unstoppable player in the post as there ever was in the game.
That's basically what I was pointing out, using his superior passing skills as an example.
Shaq in his prime (it's been a while, mind you) was the guy to build a franchise around. Tim Duncan, if you started a team TODAY.
Tim is a better passer and is in his prime as a passer. I have noticed his improvement since Horry and the Argentines arrived, particularly the touch passes and high-lows.
Based on their career assists, you'd have to say Tim is a better passer.
If we used that logic, based on career field goal percentage, you'd have to say Shaquille O'Neal is the better post player.
But, I wouldn't agree with that either.
Duncan. I still believe the reason he was Finals MVP in 05 is because of his passing out of the double team that lead to several clutch threes. Selling his move to the basket, getting the defenders to bite and kicking it back out no-look style with enough accuracy to set up the perimeter shooters in rhythm is something Duncan does extremely well.
Shaq is a good outlet passer off defensive rebounds but so is Duncan, and Duncan is overall a more versatile passer imo.
They're both very good, but not spectacular, passers. I wouldn't really use that as the criteria to distinguish between the two.
Shaq was a monster in his prime, and clearly the more offensively dominant, game-changing big man. But Duncan is the better defender, and the more consistent player. He has ushered in a full decade of le contention for the Spurs. Moreover, he is clearly the better leader and teammate.
I'd take Duncan. He'd stay at the top of his game longer and win more championships. Shaq after 2003 has seen a steady decline in production. Duncan has had a much more consistent career. The other telling fact is that Shaq is on his 4th team, while Duncan has been the definition of a franchise player.
Charley Rosen says that Duncan's biggest weakness is passing after he has put the ball on the floor.
You'd do well to build a franchise with either of those guys. At his prime, Shaq was a monumental force. Literally unstoppable. They both have 4 rings and a place in the Hall of Fame. Why nitpick and split hairs?
Tough call on who is the better passer,in the end they were both pretty damn good passers.
But Shaq is a big baby who cant be trusted. Seems like every where he goes he gets his feelings hurt then leaves and throws his teammates and coaches under the bus.
I'll take the guy whose won 4 rings with the same team
Shaq is better. How many times do you see him stripped of the ball while being double teamed ? He was great at passing the ball in the Triangle offense. He's faster at spotting the open man. Just my
opinion.
I think Tim's passing is below average. He waits entirely too long to get rid of the ball and makes himself vulnerable to friggin triple teams. Of course, if he would get the ball right back in the post it would help motivate him to pass. Ask Sean Elliott about that one. He points it out every game.
I would start a team with Tim. Solid work ethic, professional, good teammate, good example, mostly humble..
I fully agree with you. Shaq is the better passer out of the double team. Tim does wait too long...and I think Shaq's huge hands make it easier for him to pass. The basketball is like an orange to him.
But I also agree that as a coach, GM, or owner, I'd pick Duncan due to his humble, yet warrior-like personality.
I'd take Tim for several reasons. Mostly because of his longevity, commitment to team ball, the fact that he doesn't let his ego trouble the chemistry of his team, superior defense in every way possible, and commitment to stay in shape every single year. Oh, and possibly the biggest reason why I'd take him over Shaq is because he's willing to sacrifice millions of dollars so that he can have a better team around him.
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