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  1. #1
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    If military service were a western, Clark would be Jack Palance and McCain would be Billy Crystal!



  2. #2
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Too bad Hackworth isn't around anymore to set the McCain record straight, but lucky for us Hackworth's thoughts were pretty clear....

    Jan. 25, 2000
    By David Hackworth


    John McCain is being hailed by the press as a "genuine war hero." But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?

    Or is his "war hero" status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?

    For sure, McCain has the fruit-salad -- a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.

    On a purely medal count basis, he out-weighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.

    McCain's valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.

    In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I'm still waiting.

    I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.

    None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield -- where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnam-era) POWs."

    McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 -- the day after he was shot down -- to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.

    Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

    A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!"

    The rest of his valor awards -- issued automatically every year while he was a POW -- read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces."

    Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the anti-war movement.

    Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.

    A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell."

    The U.S. Navy says two eye-witnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eye-witnesses, less himself and his captors.

    And they're not talking.

    Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn't come back.

    Based on these stalwart men's horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, "Now the training is to give them something… don't risk permanent damage to health, mind or body."

    McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders."

    McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.
    Hackworth

  3. #3
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Well, I know you're a liberal, I guess it's to be expected that you'd be high fiving your ilk over making fun of POWs, it's what the pussies on the left do best.

    on those who fought for your freedom. Keep up the good work, NBadallah

    If McCain ain't qualified after fighting in Vietnam, what in the makes Obama qualified to make these so called national security decisions?

    Typical bull . Obama's already giving us all a glimpse of his true self. He said he wouldn't opt out of public financing, then he opts out. He said he wouldn't sling mud or attack other candidates, now he's doing that too.

    And he's going to change anything in D.C.? Please, he's showing he's nothing more than another sorry ass D.C. politician talking out of both sides of his mouth.

    And please don't try and even explain this away as it being Clark saying this about McCain instead of Obama. Clark is on Obama's staff and is speaking on his behalf. If Obama comes out and denounces the attack on McCain, then I'll give him some props.

    But right now he looks like a . "Republicans are going to play the race card, boo hoo, I'm not going to get into that , but hey - McCain isn't qualified because he was a POW."

    ing lame.

  4. #4
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    After the rebuke from Obama today no way he's named VP. W/E - its all bull politics anyway.

  5. #5
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    No one made fun of POWs btw. Nice spin though.

  6. #6
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    by posting this piece dan is trying to trash mccain's honor... bull ...

  7. #7
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    McFlopPanderKeating's people have gone nuts because they are running McFlopPanderKeating as war hero as qualification for President.

    Clark is striking directly at that hero bull .

    Clark is saying that McFlopPanderKeating's military experience, including getting shot down and imprisoned, none of which was executive responsibility, qualifies him for President.

    It's clear that Clark said that even if HUSSEIN had been shot down, it would have not qualified HUSSEIN, either.

    Clark showed no disrespect and plenty of explicit respect for McFlop's military service.

    Clark's point is perfectly valid. McFlop's military service is mostly useless as preparation for being President. HUSSEIN really screwed up by disavowing Clark here.

    Clark has been distorted by McFlop's people and the media running with the distortion.

    Certainly the long list of serious mistakes by McFlop in his career, Keating being huge, indicates that his military service didn't really qualify him for being a politician, either.

    here's a analysis of exactly what Schieffer and Clark said, in full context.

    http://www.jedreport.com/2008/06/what-wesley-cla.html
    Last edited by boutons_; 07-01-2008 at 09:47 AM.

  8. #8
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    Wow, politicians being politicians.

    Non-Story

    Move along.


    For the record, I'm hoping that this election ends in a tie, both candidates quit, and Thomas Jefferson comes back from the dead to lead the country.

  9. #9
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Wow, politicians being politicians.

    Non-Story

    Move along.


    For the record, I'm hoping that this election ends in a tie, both candidates quit, and Thomas Jefferson comes back from the dead to lead the country.
    Just split up the country into 50 independent states with a trade agreement.

  10. #10
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    McCain has a son, a Marine; enlisted man; active duty RIGHT NOW; been in the thick of things in Afghanistan. McCain has NOT mentioned it, much less exploited it. It's a BIG deal; his own child is in harm's way, and he supports NOT pulling the troops out. Money where his mouth is, so to speak - AND not using it for political advantage.

    You can all disparage him all you want; question whatever you want, but for me, that tells me all about his character I need to know.

    He landed fighter planes on carriers; he go shot down and tortured - Dude is a stud.

  11. #11
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    P.S. - If we were HIRING for President, not electing one; McCain is on the map; Obama, with his resume, doesn't even get a job interview.

  12. #12
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    McCain has all my respect for his military service. End of story.

  13. #13
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    If military service were a western, Clark would be Jack Palance and McCain would be Billy Crystal!
    It would seem that the last thing a Democratic partisan would want to do would be to denigrate the military service of a former POW who suffered years of torture. There is really no traction there.

  14. #14
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I understand the point Clark was trying to make though.

  15. #15
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    McCain has all my respect for his military service. End of story.
    Clark and HUSSEIN didn't say anything different from your position, and said they respected McFlopReformerKeating's military service, but an admiral father, medals, POW, and non-executive military experience don't qualify him for President, don't make him a war hero.

  16. #16
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    It would seem that the last thing a Democratic partisan would want to do would be to denigrate the military service of a former POW who suffered years of torture. There is really no traction there.
    tell that to the swift boaters.

    You know thats not how politics works.

  17. #17
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    tell that to the swift boaters.

    You know thats not how politics works.
    Yeah but Obama told everyone he wants to change things in D.C. and not engage in this type of .

    Now one of his surrogates gets called out for being a about McCain's military background, and he backpedals.

    Well, I'll give him this, at least he's consistent. That's twice so far (backpedaling).

  18. #18
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Didn't "the Messiah" recently throw Clark under the bus for these comments?

    "Beyond a loyalty to America’s ideals, beyond a willingness to dissent on behalf of those ideals, I also believe that patriotism must, if it is to mean anything, involve the willingness to sacrifice – to give up something we value on behalf of a larger cause. For those who have fought under the flag of this nation – for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country – no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides. We must always express our profound gra ude for the service of our men and women in uniform. Period. Full stop."


    LOL

  19. #19
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    tell that to the swift boaters.

    You know thats not how politics works.

    Yeah, because what Kerry did after his service was really something to be proud of.

  20. #20
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    "type of ."

    "being a about McCain's military background"

    wrong framing, but expected from the right-wing echo chamber.

    It's not , Clark, a military man with much of his own top-level MILITARY EXECUTIVE experience, is Straight Talking and driving a stake through McFlop's fundamental "advantage" of military experience as Presidential.
    Last edited by boutons_; 07-01-2008 at 11:49 AM.

  21. #21
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    P.S. - If we were HIRING for President, not electing one; McCain is on the map; Obama, with his resume, doesn't even get a job interview.
    They both suck, PERIOD.

  22. #22
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    Furthermore, even if McCain has this this so called record, it doesn't mean he won't up. Many with records have ed up. The best candidate is gone, but damn you're gonna need a better argument then this resume thing LOL.

  23. #23
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    tell that to the swift boaters.

    You know thats not how politics works.
    When Kerry won the Democratic nomination, my next-door neighbor, who had never voted for a Republican in his life, put two bumper stickers on his truck. One read "HANOI JOHN" and the other read "BUSH CHENEY '04."

    The reason the swift boat attacks worked was because there was a pre-existing undercurrent of resentment against John Kerry among some people old enough to remember Vietnam.

    What undercurrent exists against McCain is among the more extreme members of the POW/MIA movement, who probably are not found within Obama's key demographics.

  24. #24
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Dumb thing to say. There are plenty of other valid ways to attack McCain.

  25. #25
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    "Dumb thing to say"

    not at all.


    Perfectly valid point, about McFlop's bogus qualification for President, which has been distorted, misrepresented by the right-wing attack dogs and McFlop's handlers, and picked up by the corporate pro-McFlop MSM.

    Huge mistake by HUSSEIN to disavow it. He should have countered the misrepresentation. Now he has validated the misrepresentation.

    Did Viet Nam war evading qualify dubya and head as Presidential?

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