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Hitting the sauce a little early, I see.
Is Bush responsible for anything that has gone badly in Iraq?
Yes or no.
I'm thinking we need a scape goat. Try and convict GW for murder? As a patriot he should take the fall whether it's justified or not.
Hitting the sauce a little early, I see.
Is Bush responsible for anything that has gone badly in Iraq?
Yes or no.
ultimately yes. I'm being serious about him taking the fall too. I don't see how us abandoning IRAQ and the ensuming blood bath helps our country. Or maybe it does, but we need a strong stomach.
I agree it's better for our reputation if we referee the ethnic cleansing going on there -- but allowing bloodbaths to happen in foreign countries is nothing new for either Democratic or Republican administrations, and not a strong argument for staying there.
for our reputation I offer Bush as a sacrifice, but the refering is a moral issue.
You offer?
Well ok. It would be good to know what conditions would facilitate an exit though.
here are two:
1. decrease in violence
2. somewhat organized government in place
both conditions have been met, so a draw down is in order.
It's hilarious how right-wingers say "dubya has to stay in Iraq to prevent a bloodbath".
Since when did jingoistic right-wingers start giving a about brown/Arab/Muslim blood, other than when it suits their pro-oil rhetoric?
dubya has already caused a huge (civilian) bloodbath in Iraq, 100s of 1000s of Iraqis slaughtered as a direct result of dubya's "liberation", plus 5M Iraqi refugees, ethnic cleansing, etc, etc. None of which the pro-warriors have any objection to.
We should send dubya to iraq after he hands over the keys to whoever the next president will be.
He can't return until there's finally a democracy in iraq, with social stability and a country that can run by itself. Just what he's been babbling about for all these years.
My bet is that he gets blown to pieces in some car bombing/mortar fire/whatever within months of being there, and everything goes to anyways.
I'm not a traitor and wouldn't sell out my president, but I think my president should be a patriot and sacrifice himself for the good of the country. However, if he doesn't I'm surely am not going to try to force it.
Last edited by 2centsworth; 07-03-2008 at 05:30 PM.
Well, we're not going to win in Iraq. And I think we can get international help (real help), if we were to acknowledge we can't deal with it anymore, and we need to pull out, but we would like help to make sure a massacre won't happen.
I will be a defeat by all means, but will make countries like Russia, China, even Spain that withdrew their troops from that war already, to help out police the country. I'm sure they'll like to take something in exchange. Perhaps an oil field or two. But there's always a price to pay for failure.
Boutons, Do ented civilian deaths from violence
85,407 – 93,149
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Last I heard from Anbar province in Iraq the violence was at an all time low and the Iraqis have taken over security from the Marines. The last 4 months have been the lowest casualties for US forces in the entire 5 years of fighting. Doesnt sound like any progress is being made.
You have to remember that progress for the demonrats means having cause to pull out. They don't see that type of progress, and have to exagerate things.
Everything is so stable in Iraq, that if the US leaves tomorrow, there will be a major genocide along with a country wide civil war. Plus, as violence diminishes in Iraq, it grows in Afghanistan. Ofcourse, we're too stretched already to have sizeable forces in both places.
So, this is progress?
Not to mention we've now armed the Sunni and given both sides (and the Kurds) boat-loads of cash to buy plenty more weapons for when inevitably Dubya leaves office and a different administration has to deal with his cluster- ...
That stills leaves us with the Democratic controlled Congress, and their 18% approval rating, that has funded this "unjust war" every step of the way.
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun".
Question for you Einstein, will we be leaving Iraq tomorrow or next month or next year? Nope, so your point is worthless. Lets hear some real world issues not what if's or maybe.
US deaths are already higher in Afghanistan than Iraq for the past 2 months, once we slowly increase the troops in Afghanistan and push deeper in Taliban zones there will be even more troop deaths, thats what happens in war baby. Eventually once the Taliban are slowly killed off, the deaths will decrease just as they have since the surge in Iraq. Its just war, dont take it personally.
"there will be a major genocide along with a country wide civil war."
That's just Repug fear-mongering, the same Repug who demonstrably got gotten all their fabricated "facts" and predictions WRONG about IRAQ.
We are now supposed to believe the "civil-war-when-US-leaves" prediction, as justification and smoke-screen for multi-decade occupation until the oil is stolen.
The Repugs don't give the tiniest about brown/Muslim/Arab blood until that blood gets in the way of the oil.
If the Repugs could rip off all the oil by 1 Sep, the US military would be pulled out 2 Sep. The USA already occupies neighboring Gulf states to assure the USA gets the oil. Iraq is just another oil country to be occupied for oil.
USA broke Iraq, and now USA truly owns the Iraq oil. Mission Accomplished.
Last edited by boutons_; 07-04-2008 at 10:41 AM.
Way to go, Boutons...keeping up that juvenile thought process.
Of course there are no minorities in the Republican Party...and of course, the Democrats were not the party that fought the Civil Rights Bill.
You want to hear a real issue? Sure. What do we do now that the Taliban attacks from Pakistan? We made our bed with that country. They have no problem harboring terrorists and being a breeding ground for them.
Hey, it's not your fault. You didn't come up with this failed strategy. But it's a real problem right now.
Afghanistan is the living proof of what happens when we take troops out of one area and reroute it to another. Who's to say that once you start moving troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan violence won't come back into Iraq? There's actual proof to the contrary. And of course it's a personal issue. Because if not me, my kids are going to have to pay for the billions we're spending weekly in a stupid war (Iraq) that distracts us from going after the war we should be fighting (Afghanistan).
Couldn't have said it better myself. Again, worst Congress I can remember.
So when can we leave Iraq?
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