http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/..._mi_ea/us_iraq
US, Iraq have draft to pull US troops out By MATTHEW LEE and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Iraq and the U.S. have reached preliminary agreement to withdraw American forces from Iraqi cities by next June, six years into the increasingly unpopular war, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said Thursday after meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
The negotiations over a withdrawal timetable follow long insistence by President Bush that setting any schedule for U.S. troops to leave would be dangerous. The draft agreement with Iraq would link troop reductions to achievement of certain security milestones, although the details have not been made public.
Time has become ever more important in discussions between U.S. and Iraqi officials with Bush heading into its final months and the presidential candidates tussling daily over how and when they would move to end the war.
Democrat Barack Obama has said he would begin pulling troops out immediately upon taking office and have all combat forces out within 16 months. Republican John McCain has said the situation in Iraq will dictate any pullout schedule, not a timetable set up without consideration of how the war is going.
Rice and Zebari, appearing together at a news conference, asserted that the proposed deal reflects growing confidence in the ability of Iraqi forces to secure the country. A final agreement would require endorsement of the proposed deal by top Iraqi leaders and the Iraqi parliament.
Zebari said the draft would be presented to top leaders, including Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Some members of al-Maliki's Cabinet are known to oppose some aspects.
"What we have accomplished in this agreement is the most advanced version of any" such deal between the United States and other countries where U.S. forces are based, Zebari told reporters, "because the U.S. negotiators indeed showed a great deal of flexibility and understanding."
Rice spoke optimistically of completing a deal but stressed that it still needs top-level Iraqi approval.
"We think it's a good agreement," she said. "We recognize that the government still has to review this agreement ... and we'll await that process, and then it obviously has to go to the Council of Representatives." She was referring to the Iraqi parliament; the Bush administration does not plan to submit the deal to Congress for approval.
The Iraqis have demanded specific timelines for the departure of American forces, and initially the Bush administration resisted.
"We have agreed that some goals, some aspirational timetables for how that might unfold, are well worth having in such an agreement," Rice told reporters after meeting with Iraqi officials, including the prime minister. The two sides had come together on a draft agreement earlier this week and Rice made an unannounced visit to Baghdad to press officials there to endorse it.
Zebari, asked about fears expressed by neighboring countries over such a pact, said in Arabic: "This decision (agreement) is a sovereign one and Iran and other neighboring countries have the right to ask for clarifications. ... There are clear articles (that) say that Iraq will not be used as a launching pad for any aggressive acts against neighboring countries and we already did clarify this."
A key part of the U.S.-Iraqi draft agreement envisions the withdrawal of American forces from Iraq's cities by next June 30, according to Iraqi and American officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the proposed deal's details have not been publicly announced. A related issue is setting additional timelines for troop withdrawals, including a date by which all U.S. forces would be gone.
Said Zebari: "This agreement determines the principle provisions, requirements, to regulate the temporary presence and the time horizon, the mission of the U.S. forces."
U.S. military forces went into in Iraq in early 2003 and overthrew President Saddam Hussein and the war is now in its sixth year. There have been more than 4,100 U.S. deaths there and countless losses among Iraqis. The war looms as a key issue in the campaign in the United States to elect a successor to Bush, with McCain accusing Obama of advocating too precipitate a withdrawal of U.S. forces from the country.
"We're not sitting here talking about an agreement to try to get out of a bad situation," Rice said, asserting that the draft "builds on the success we have had in the last year. This agreement is based on success."
Followers of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr criticized Rice's visit and repeated their opposition to the security agreement. Sadr's followers control 30 of the 275 seats in parliament.
I thought a timetable for withdrawal was taboo for the resident war s.
Artificial timetables have always been stupid and shortsighted. Timetables that occur because actual progress has been made, and reductions are now possible, and beneficial to both sides are great news - unless, that is, your political career and power is tied to a U.S. overseas failure.
I see we're playing the "Obama cares more about politics than about the country" card. I would accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, but you may really believe this propaganda.
timetable
milestones
rofl
And I thought that it would be an unending occupation was the war cry of liberal whiners on the forum...
I know you hate it that every death wasn't rendered meaningless, just as I know you will come up with some lame opinion that every death there was meaningless, even though, you haven't had any family members die there...
What was so hard to understand about staying until they asked us to leave? Instead of when it was convenient for us to leave...thus undermining the hope of anything positive coming out of this.
It really wasn't that ing hard to understand...unless you're an idiot.
Sorry, but you lack logic...you've been listening to what you wanted to hear, instead of everything that was being said...that is why you are ignorant and confused now.
You guys really hate it that we actually won this war and installed a Democracy in Iraq don't you? I would too if I'd been saying the things you guys have been saying for the last 4 years...
After all, it always sucks to be completely wrong and realize that your ing, accomplished nothing, was indeed part of the problem, and none of the solutuion.
do you think it will last when we stop paying them not to kill us?
It's funny because it's true.
Bush has said several times he would consider a withdrawal schedule based on achievements and that he wouldn't accept one based solely on time passed.
Nothing new there.
It's funny because it's true.
You guys are wasting yourselves on this forum....ya'll should be using that uncommon knowledge and brilliant insight creating bumperstickers and making Paris Hilton feel good about her political mind. I mean...since you guys and Paris are on the same page all the way, why slum here when you could be out with others on your level?
It's new to them.
To them this was an ILLEGAL war, entirely for Oil, and Haliburton, and because Usama Bin Laden was in Iraq, and we are colonizing Iraq.
Also according to them Saddam was a benevolent and misunderstood leader, Russia, Germany, France and China are benevolent nations interested in nothing but spreading good will and brotherly love, ditto the UN.
And the only reason given for going into Iraq by Bush the Satan was WMD...which was definitely a lie all the way. Bush lied to guys like John Kerry that had been sitting on the Senate Intelligence Commitee for 20 years....he also lied to Bill and Hillary Clinton, ChIraq, etc. He lied to Clinton while Clinton was President even.
You must understand them before you can communicate with them...and once you do, you probably won't be interested in communicating with them. IF you must...put it on a bumperticker or get Paris Hiton to say it, they'll understand you better then.
Not Obama specifically.
I see we're playing the "Obama cares more about politics than about the country" card. I would accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, but you may really believe this propaganda.
Do you NOT think that the better Iraq goes for the next 90 days, the better it is for Republicans?
And that's not the only benchmark, I think, that it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that Dems benefit from if they don't improve, others include:
Jobs, Inflation, Gas Prices, Bank Failures.......
Isn't it exactly a general malaise that the country has been in that has caused the most unpopular presidency ever?
Seems a truism to me, not so much rhetoric.
No, no, you do have a point. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Obviously, the longer we are in Iraq, the more trouble it will give Republicans. I think a key facet to the situation in Iraq how its relation to the election is whether people see the outcome as a victory. And by "victory" I mean a situation where the benefits outweigh the losses we sustained (both in terms of causalities and monetary loss). I don't know how it will play out. I do think that it will be easier for the Republicans to spin it as a victory now that it appears that we are withdrawing.
Note that the draft pulls US forces out of "Iraqi cities".
Not Iraq itself.
that will require some capital, so we'll have to wait until we stop paying them not to kill us.
paris is the obsession of the right, so i'll just have to take your word for it.and making Paris Hilton feel good about her political mind. I mean...since you guys and Paris are on the same page all the way
again, we're elitist. we don't slum.why slum here when you could be out with others on your level?
About what I expected...BTW, we paid Europe to stop fighting each other...how'd that work out? Oops.
I know, I know, the Marshall plan was a failure...
Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize for giving Irsael and Egypt 3 billion per year to not fight each other...
I just want to see you be as cynical about that.....
I know, I know...you are unaware of this stuff because it was never featured in a good bumpersticker campaign.
I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that the bulk of the terrorist foot soldiers come from the extremely high unemployment, high poverty, and low education rates in the ME...
Unemployment:
Afghanistan 40%
Saudi Arabia 13%(and this total is complete bull , although it has definitely grown lower since we killed all their homeless and des ute in Iraq, ditto Pakistan).
Iran 12%
They used to be higher..but since we've killed most of them in Iraq...it's somewhat alleviated now, not to mention that blowing the out of Afghanistan and Iraq created a lot of jobs.
But ultimately yeah, giving them money does alleviate some of the problem...you'd be amazed what people will do when they have nothing to live for.
I look at you are you barely literate, largely ignorant...and you believe anything you hear if it's presented to you in a cynical manner...there's no doubt in my mind if you'd be fodder for the US military in Iraq if you'd been born in Saudi or Pakistan... , you say the same things those guys do, and at least they have the excuse of never having been formally educated....and not being able to read.
I know...you never saw that stuff on a bumpersticker either. But I will bet money I've seen the reply you are going to give me on a bumpersticker...or will you post one of those clever political cartoons? I just know the knowledge contained in your reply won't be greater than a CNN soundbite or a propaganda blog headline...
Last edited by whottt; 08-22-2008 at 01:31 AM.
can't wait to see the spreadsheet on this
just so you know, this is about iraq.Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize for giving Irsael and Egypt 3 billion per year to not fight each other...
why? they're not related.I just want to see you be as cynical about that.....
you seem to have developed an obsession with bumper stickers....have you been sleeping in your backyard again?I know, I know...you are unaware of this stuff because it was never featured in a good bumpersticker campaign.
making it up as you go along, i see.
do you gets those figures from ask.com?Unemployment:
Afghanistan 40%
Saudi Arabia 13%(and this total is complete bull , although it has definitely grown lower since we killed all their homeless and des ute in Iraq, ditto Pakistan).
Iran 12%
in iraq, we're cutting the paycheck for building and for not being killed. thats a in democracy. in afghanistan, we've hired every mud hut contractor on the planet.They used to be higher..but since we've killed most of them in Iraq...it's somewhat alleviated now, not to mention that blowing the out of Afghanistan and Iraq created a lot of jobs.
getting killed if we don't pay them can be a nuisance.But ultimately yeah, giving them money alleviates some of the problem
my favorite so far.I look at you are you barely literate,
bumper sticker is 2 words.I know...you never saw that stuff on a bumpersticker either.
On its face this doesn't look good for the Republicans that were strongly against "timetables", but it's actually a negative for Democrats as well....
Without Iraq being in shambles, Obama will have to focus his attention on another message, such as the economy. He's a very intelligent and well-spoken person, so I don't think he'll have too much trouble championing a new cause.
BUT, he began his campaign solely based on his initial opposition to the war in Iraq and it was his biggest strength going into this election season. If he can't talk about the "terrible situation in Iraq" and tie that decision from Bush to McCain, he could potentially become just another politician with a broad message about change...and that might not be enough.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but an improving situation in Iraq is definitely NOT good for the presidential hopes of Barack Obama and democrats....regardless if timetables are being set.
yep, he should focus on mccains complete lack of knowledge regarding the economy.........and stop paying iraqis not to kill us. good start.
Republicans are in denial about payin guys like Al-Sadr not to fight us and to kick out the foreign element (i.e. Al-Queda in Iraq) to places like Afghanistan and Pakistan...there are also millions of Iraqis still in squalor camps in Jordan, Iran, Turkey and other Middle East countries...Iraq has become a country of walled cities.....Reagan tore down the wall in Germany and Bush erected walls in Iraq to keep Shiaa from killing Sunni and Sunni from killing Kurd....but since American GI's aren't dying at nearly the rate of a year ago this cons utes 'victory' or 'Success' in Iraq....what a scam...
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