At debate Biden told to ignore Palin

[whottt]

http://www.nysun.com/national/at-deb...e-palin/86746/


At Debate, Biden Told: Ignore Palin
By RUSSELL BERMAN, Staff Reporter of the Sun | September 29, 2008
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As Senator Biden prepares to face off against Governor Palin on Thursday night in the campaign's lone vice presidential debate, Democratic strategists have a few words of advice for the lawmaker of Delaware: Ignore the Alaskan.

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Bill Pugliano/Getty

The Democratic vice-presidential nominee, Senator Biden, speaks at a rally September 28.

Mr. Biden's 35 years in the Senate dwarf Ms. Palin's single month of experience on the national stage, but Democrats are worried that his penchant for verbal missteps and his occasionally aggressive style could be a liability as he faces only the second woman to serve as a major party nominee for the vice presidency.

"His goal is to ignore Palin and focus on connecting with voters sitting in their living rooms by making clear he is indeed one of them — an uncommon, common man," a Democratic strategist who served as an aide to Vice President Gore during the 2000 campaign, Christopher Lehane, said.

The two running mates will meet in St. Louis this week for what is perhaps the most eagerly anticipated vice presidential match-up in recent memory, and the debate is fraught with risk for both candidates.

After winning rave reviews for her debut speech at the Republican National Convention early in the month, Ms. Palin has struggled as she has come under increased scrutiny from the press. Polls have shown voter concerns about her readiness for the job, and she has been widely derided in recent days for the nearly incomprehensible response she offered when CBS's Katie Couric asked her to explain her claim that Alaska's proximity to Russia and Canada gave her foreign policy experience.

Those stumbles have raised the stakes for Thursday's debate, but Democrats are offering another reason why Mr. Biden should avoid trying to exploit Ms. Palin's lack of experience — he may not need to.

"Let the facts, the records, and the ideas speak for themselves, and more than likely Governor Palin will expose herself as unqualified for the job," a Democratic consultant, Daniel Gerstein, said. "If he has the right tone, there's no way he can lose this debate."

Mr. Biden needs only to look to Senator Clinton's Senate race in 2000 against Rick Lazio to see the perils of a male appearing overly confrontational with a female candidate. During their debate, Mr. Lazio walked over to Mrs. Clinton's podium to ask her to a sign a pledge against accepting so-called soft money campaign contributions. The move backfired, as the Republican congressman looked as if he were physically intimidating the then-first lady.

"Debating with a woman is entirely different than anything you will ever do," a Democratic consultant who worked for President Clinton's re-election bid in 1996, Hank Sheinkopf, said. He said Mr. Biden needed to avoid doing anything that would appear "glowering" or "menacing" and would engender sympathy for Ms. Palin.

In a television interview yesterday, President Clinton also advised Mr. Biden against going after Ms. Palin directly. Doing so, he said, would likely appeal only to voters already supporting Senator Obama. "I don't think he has to whack her, or should," Mr. Clinton said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "Everybody that really is upset about Sarah Palin because she's too conservative or too Alaska or too this, that, or the other thing, they're already for the Obama-Biden ticket."

Both parties have already begun the traditional pre-debate efforts to lower expectations for their candidates and raise the bar for their opponents. Mr. Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, told reporters on a conference call Saturday that Ms. Palin was "a terrific debater," judging from tapes of her performances during campaigns in Alaska.

"She has performed very, very well," Mr. Plouffe said. "She's obviously a skilled speaker, so you know we'll expect that she'll give a great performance next Thursday."

Republicans have highlighted Mr. Biden's frequent gaffes, but have also touted his years in Washington as preparation for the debate. One GOP aide said Mr. Biden has "spent his entire career debating in the Senate and building a reputation as one of the best."

A close friend and adviser to Mr. McCain, Senator Graham of South Carolina, said criticism of Ms. Palin in the last week had been exaggerated, but he acknowledged that she had work to do on Thursday.

"She's going to have to show she's a valuable part of this team, that she's capable of the job, that she shares John's philosophy," he said on "Fox News Sunday."

[timvp]

I have to hand it to the Democrats for actually being craftier this time around. For about the last 30 years, the Republicans have been leaps and bounds smarter about knowing exactly what it takes to win a presidential election.

Palin was a fantastic pick for McCain because she not only helps him make up for his staleness and his lack of excitement, but she's also untouchable. She's not a politician who has been through the ringer. In the public's eye, she's just basically an Average Jane who just so happens to be a vice president candidate.

Nothing in the US gets as much attention as an affluent white everyday woman in distress. Seriously, there's a reason why the cases of abductions of affluent white women garner more attention than the cases of every other demographic combined. So by putting Palin front and center, the Republicans can play rope and dope. The more the Democrats attack her, the more beloved she'll become. If Biden made it his mission to tear her to shreds in the debate, he'd be massively hurting Obama. The Republicans know this and they are praying that Biden slips up.

Before Palin, McCain was dead in the water. But this was a brilliant choice for a VP who has a chance to single-handily put him back into contention. Not because she's amazing qualified (or qualified at all), but because she was the perfect antidote with what ailed the campaign. She slices into Obama dreamers because a black President isn't that much more impressive than a woman vice president. She siphons some of the disenchanted Hillary Clinton voters. She helps McCain appear like he has a pulse. And most importantly, she automatically becomes the only untouchable candidate of the four.

If Obama's camp actually wants to win the election, they better avoid Palin like the plague. She's the difference maker. It'd be better for Biden to lose the debate than for Biden to attack Palin and make America take note of her presence even more.

[boutons_]

It's fine, even necessary, for Repugs to attack and trash Hillary, Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, but a pitbull is off limits. OK

pitbull accepts a job in kitchen, but can't take the heat, but that's alright because she's white, Repug, ignorant-like-us-red-state hick.

Towards the pitbull , Biden shouldn't be pissed off, smirking, grumpy, condescending, belittling, insulting, uncool as McWorse was to HUSSEIN, but just be cool and factual and destroy her on her ignorance and incredible Couric-interview gobbledygook and senseless babbling. An ignornant, inexperiened, conning bas has no right to be VP, nor does an ingnorant ignornant, inexperiened, conning c*nt.

The pitbull distraction exposes how really bad, desperate, unwanted, unenthusing McWorse is.

Elect McWorse primarily because of pitbull ? Yep, America is really, really stupid and connable.

Plenty of women, outside of the desperate Repug base, see pitbull as an embarrassment for all women, badly out of her depth, ignorant, babbling senseless crap.

The press has done a fine job of digging up pitbull 's history, so the Dems don't have to.

[MannyIsGod]

I have to hand it to the Democrats for actually being craftier this time around. For about the last 30 years, the Republicans have been leaps and bounds smarter about knowing exactly what it takes to win a presidential election.

Palin was a fantastic pick for McCain because she not only helps him make up for his staleness and his lack of excitement, but she's also untouchable. She's not a politician who has been through the ringer. In the public's eye, she's just basically an Average Jane who just so happens to be a vice president candidate.

Nothing in the US gets as much attention as an affluent white everyday woman in distress. Seriously, there's a reason why the cases of abductions of affluent white women garner more attention than the cases of every other demographic combined. So by putting Palin front and center, the Republicans can play rope and dope. The more the Democrats attack her, the more beloved she'll become. If Biden made it his mission to tear her to shreds in the debate, he'd be massively hurting Obama. The Republicans know this and they are praying that Biden slips up.

Before Palin, McCain was dead in the water. But this was a brilliant choice for a VP who has a chance to single-handily put him back into contention. Not because she's amazing qualified (or qualified at all), but because she was the perfect antidote with what ailed the campaign. She slices into Obama dreamers because a black President isn't that much more impressive than a woman vice president. She siphons some of the disenchanted Hillary Clinton voters. She helps McCain appear like he has a pulse. And most importantly, she automatically becomes the only untouchable candidate of the four.

If Obama's camp actually wants to win the election, they better avoid Palin like the plague. She's the difference maker. It'd be better for Biden to lose the debate than for Biden to attack Palin and make America take note of her presence even more.

Good analysis.

[whottt]

Every time Joe Biden opens his mouth he costs Obama voters. Joe Biden is going to open his mouth a lot in this debate, and he is going to cost Obama a lot of voters.

Conversely, every time Palin opens her mouth she picks up voters(unless it's a hit piece). Sarah Palin is going to open her mouth a lot in this debate, and she is going to pick up a lot of voters.


What Joe Biden is, is a bag.

You can turn a bag upside down, you can turn it sideways, you can put in the middle of the living room as a conversation piece, or you can put it off in the corner by itself, you can call by it's proper name of boutons, or it's better known name of bag...but no matter what you do with it, or where you put it, it will still be a bag.



They are asking Biden to ignore her so that they don't lose any more women voters, this is already a lost cause, a charismatic woman will eventually win over other women, no matter how much they don't like her at first. Gender is a greater bond than anything else.


In this case all those young newly registered women voters that Obama thinks he's going to be the beneficiary of? Uh-uh...they are going to go to Palin.

It was basically over from the time Obama selected Biden as his VP, and this is going to be one of the final nails in the coffin.

There is no way Biden can win this debate...I don't care if he smears her on knowledge, he is not going to win this debate.

And this ignore strategy is arguably the worst thing the Democrats could do...because Biden has said so many stupid things in the course of career and been on the wrong side of so many issues, Palin can just tee off at will.

Biden can try to ignore her, but he will be unsucessful at it, and more importantly, she is going to piss him off, and he will be unprepared to attack...

It will be an epic fail.


And more people are going to watch this debate than watched the Presidential debate IMO.


So Joe, how about that surge?

[whottt]

Picking Biden as his VP was like picking Keith Van Horne with the first pick of the 97 draft. Some guys just aren't meant to see the promised land, Joe Biden is one of them, and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

[dg7md]

Picking Biden as his VP was like picking Keith Van Horne with the first pick of the 97 draft. Some guys just aren't meant to see the promised land, Joe Biden is one of them, and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

And Sarah Palin is...

...


You know what I will just drop the ordeal.

[whottt]

And Sarah Palin is...

...

A winner. At just about everything she's tried to be successful at...

She doesn't understand failure...Biden knows it well.

You know what I will just drop the ordeal.

It's not my fault he picked Biden.

[ElNono]

Conversely, every time Palin opens her mouth she picks up voters(unless it's a hit piece). Sarah Palin is going to open her mouth a lot in this debate, and she is going to pick up a lot of voters.

McCain has to come out and correct the up Palin made?

[florige]

Every time Joe Biden opens his mouth he costs Obama voters. Joe Biden is going to open his mouth a lot in this debate, and he is going to cost Obama a lot of voters.

Conversely, every time Palin opens her mouth she picks up voters(unless it's a hit piece). Sarah Palin is going to open her mouth a lot in this debate, and she is going to pick up a lot of voters.


What Joe Biden is, is a bag.

You can turn a bag upside down, you can turn it sideways, you can put in the middle of the living room as a conversation piece, or you can put it off in the corner by itself, you can call by it's proper name of boutons, or it's better known name of bag...but no matter what you do with it, or where you put it, it will still be a bag.



They are asking Biden to ignore her so that they don't lose any more women voters, this is already a lost cause, a charismatic woman will eventually win over other women, no matter how much they don't like her at first. Gender is a greater bond than anything else.


In this case all those young newly registered women voters that Obama thinks he's going to be the beneficiary of? Uh-uh...they are going to go to Palin.

It was basically over from the time Obama selected Biden as his VP, and this is going to be one of the final nails in the coffin.

There is no way Biden can win this debate...I don't care if he smears her on knowledge, he is not going to win this debate.

And this ignore strategy is arguably the worst thing the Democrats could do...because Biden has said so many stupid things in the course of career and been on the wrong side of so many issues, Palin can just tee off at will.

Biden can try to ignore her, but he will be unsucessful at it, and more importantly, she is going to piss him off, and he will be unprepared to attack...

It will be an epic fail.


And more people are going to watch this debate than watched the Presidential debate IMO.


So Joe, how about that surge?

I think this may be you're last shot Whottt. Hopefully Biden doesn't it up for the Dems.

[Shastafarian]

Every time Joe Biden opens his mouth he costs Obama voters. Joe Biden is going to open his mouth a lot in this debate, and he is going to cost Obama a lot of voters.

Conversely, every time Palin opens her mouth she picks up voters(unless it's a hit piece). Sarah Palin is going to open her mouth a lot in this debate, and she is going to pick up a lot of voters.


What Joe Biden is, is a bag.

You can turn a bag upside down, you can turn it sideways, you can put in the middle of the living room as a conversation piece, or you can put it off in the corner by itself, you can call by it's proper name of boutons, or it's better known name of bag...but no matter what you do with it, or where you put it, it will still be a bag.



They are asking Biden to ignore her so that they don't lose any more women voters, this is already a lost cause, a charismatic woman will eventually win over other women, no matter how much they don't like her at first. Gender is a greater bond than anything else.


In this case all those young newly registered women voters that Obama thinks he's going to be the beneficiary of? Uh-uh...they are going to go to Palin.

It was basically over from the time Obama selected Biden as his VP, and this is going to be one of the final nails in the coffin.

There is no way Biden can win this debate...I don't care if he smears her on knowledge, he is not going to win this debate.

And this ignore strategy is arguably the worst thing the Democrats could do...because Biden has said so many stupid things in the course of career and been on the wrong side of so many issues, Palin can just tee off at will.

Biden can try to ignore her, but he will be unsucessful at it, and more importantly, she is going to piss him off, and he will be unprepared to attack...

It will be an epic fail.


And more people are going to watch this debate than watched the Presidential debate IMO.


So Joe, how about that surge?

I feel so much dumber just for having read this stinking pile of feces whottt calls a post.

[Findog]

The Obama campaign is smart. It's why they've gotten as far as they have against the odds. Biden will be gracious and accomodating towards Palin. timvp is right, and Obama agrees with him. It's why they've left her alone after being caught flat-footed by her selection.

VP debates don't matter anyways.

[florige]

The Obama campaign is smart. It's why they've gotten as far as they have against the odds. Biden will be gracious and accomodating towards Palin. timvp is right, and Obama agrees with him. It's why they've left her alone after being caught flat-footed by her selection.

VP debates don't matter anyways.

What do you mean does Fin? You are sorely misinformed. This may be the last time Whottt see's his girl for a extended period of time. You are slipping Fin....

[Findog]

I just hope Americans don't fall for the low expectations game. As in, "Oh, she managed to complete a sentence without drooling, so I'll vote for McCain now."

She'll still do terribly, but better than expected. If she can't get through an interview, how is she going to do in a debate? I'm glad Plouffe is talking up her debating skills. They need to pound that home between now and Thursday.

[florige]

I just hope Americans don't fall for the low expectations game. As in, "Oh, she managed to complete a sentence without drooling, so I'll vote for McCain now."

She'll still do terribly, but better than expected. If she can't get through an interview, how is she going to do in a debate? I'm glad Plouffe is talking up her debating skills. They need to pound that home between now and Thursday.

I doubt Americans can be that stupid. I wonder if she's going to after Biden. He has been debating for years. I'm confident he will know how to handle her.

[Findog]

He just needs to be kind and complimentary. He'll slaughter her on substance. I'm confident he can shiv her with a smile.

[byrontx]

I think Whott and Boutons are both right. Palin was a great pick from the standpoint that the repub can use the political correctness they have always depised to neuter the dems. Boutons is right in that, from the perspective of what is good for the country she is a wretched choice.

The repubs have been using divide and conquer successfully since Willie Horton, flag-burning and "the gay agenda" but this time their record is so dismal it most likely will not pull through for McCain (and the only reason he is on the repub ticket is that he was furthest from the neo-con right).

[JoeChalupa]

Joe Biden rocks baby!!!!
All Palin has to do is not screw up and she comes out a winner. It should be a cake walk for her in all actuality. She's a very good speaker and I think she'll come out a winner.

[TheMadHatter]

Obama's campaign is run by one of the smartest men in politics, David Axelrod. The 50 state strategy was pure genius, it has forced McCain to defend areas that are traditional Republican strongholds like Indiana and North Carolina.

I'm not worried about Obama from here on out. He's not John Kerry. He knows how to win and he's winning this race right now.

McCain is the one flailing in the wind right now. Palin needs a gaffe free performance just to keep McCain in the race, if she bombs like she did her Couric interview it's probably lights out for McCain.

[hater]

I think palin will do better in the debate. I think Kouric gave her such an asskicking that I doubt anyone will ever come close. Especially an idiot like Biden.

So republicans will consider again palin as victorious. But everyone knows damn well Palin is completely unqualified and embarrassing just to be around with.

[Findog]

Has this been posted elsewhere?

[baseline bum]

I have to hand it to the Democrats for actually being craftier this time around. For about the last 30 years, the Republicans have been leaps and bounds smarter about knowing exactly what it takes to win a presidential election.

Palin was a fantastic pick for McCain because she not only helps him make up for his staleness and his lack of excitement, but she's also untouchable. She's not a politician who has been through the ringer. In the public's eye, she's just basically an Average Jane who just so happens to be a vice president candidate.

The Republicans have won not because they were average men; in the last few presidential elections they've won, it is their proclamations of faith that served them best. George W. Bush got huge evangelical support for his father in '88 by telling churches how his faith turned him around from being an alcoholic. With respect to his razor-thin win in the 2000 election:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...sus/view/#rest

The single most reliable predictor of how a person voted in the 2000 election was whether they went to church or to synagogue or mosque at least once a week,"

"If [they did], two-thirds of them voted for George Bush."

Bush won 2004 by getting huge evangelical support when he ran on a platform of opposing gay marriage.

It's this vote McCain is looking to get with Palin, as she is pretty open with her faith. Palin may be a bit too far for people who aren't deeply religious though.

I hope lots of people are scared that she believes man and dinosaurs lived together and that creationism is valid science, but we'll see in November. It's not unreasonable to think Palin has created a wedge issue within the community of believers between fundamentalists and those who look at the bible as a more a life guide than a literal account. W was much better at tip-toeing this line than Palin is, and I don't think it's a slam dunk that Palin can have the kind of success Bush had because of this. For this reason, it's tough to call Palin a fantastic pick.

Many moderate Christians I know who voted for Bush in the last two elections are a bit scared of Palin, and lump her with Huckabee as fundamentalists whose views are a bit too extreme.

[Shastafarian]

The le of this thread is misleading (surprise surprise from whottt and the New York Sun). No one in the Obama campaign has told Biden to ignore Palin. At least not that we know of. These are all democratic "strategists" that have said it would be in his best interest (I disagree). We have no idea how he'll approach her on Thursday night.

[Ocotillo]

I have to hand it to the Democrats for actually being craftier this time around. For about the last 30 years, the Republicans have been leaps and bounds smarter about knowing exactly what it takes to win a presidential election.

Palin was a fantastic pick for McCain because she not only helps him make up for his staleness and his lack of excitement, but she's also untouchable. She's not a politician who has been through the ringer. In the public's eye, she's just basically an Average Jane who just so happens to be a vice president candidate.

Nothing in the US gets as much attention as an affluent white everyday woman in distress. Seriously, there's a reason why the cases of abductions of affluent white women garner more attention than the cases of every other demographic combined. So by putting Palin front and center, the Republicans can play rope and dope. The more the Democrats attack her, the more beloved she'll become. If Biden made it his mission to tear her to shreds in the debate, he'd be massively hurting Obama. The Republicans know this and they are praying that Biden slips up.

Before Palin, McCain was dead in the water. But this was a brilliant choice for a VP who has a chance to single-handily put him back into contention. Not because she's amazing qualified (or qualified at all), but because she was the perfect antidote with what ailed the campaign. She slices into Obama dreamers because a black President isn't that much more impressive than a woman vice president. She siphons some of the disenchanted Hillary Clinton voters. She helps McCain appear like he has a pulse. And most importantly, she automatically becomes the only untouchable candidate of the four.

If Obama's camp actually wants to win the election, they better avoid Palin like the plague. She's the difference maker. It'd be better for Biden to lose the debate than for Biden to attack Palin and make America take note of her presence even more.

I dub this hypothesis "the Natalie Holloway effect".

[sook]

A winner. At just about everything she's tried to be successful at...

She doesn't understand failure...Biden knows it well.



It's not my fault he picked Biden.

your so full of