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when the lakers couldnt get passed the first round, i wanted Kobe to be #1 so bad. Now that we are so close to getting a ring, I could careless if Kobe is #1. Lebron can be the best as long as the Lakers get the ring.
Tom Knott: Without question, NBA has its King
Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are the two pre-eminent players of the NBA, the best of the rest a step down from them and the No. 3 player undetermined.
Tim Duncan? Dwyane Wade? Chris Paul? Dwight Howard?
You could debate the merits of each and not come to a definitive conclusion.
Bryant and James lead the MVP race this season. Actually, the MVP discussion stops with those two.
They took aim at each other Monday, Bryant and James, in one of their two meetings in the regular season this year. Bryant won the matchup with 20 points, 12 assists and six rebounds as the Lakers defeated the Cavaliers 105-88.
Neither was especially sharp on offense, with Bryant shooting 9-for-22 and James 9-for-25, which highlights the difference in the two teams. Bryant has All-Star quality pieces around him, while James is as close to a one-man gang as there is with a championship-contending team.
The evolution of James coincides with the ascent of the Cavaliers. James may have led the Cavaliers to the NBA Finals two seasons ago, but there was an accidental element to it in a conference steeped more in parity than excellence.
That conference has given way to the dominance of the Cavaliers, Magic and Celtics, with each team winning at an impressive rate. James leading the Cavaliers to the rarefied air of the NBA in virtually solo fashion is the most compelling story line of the season. That gives him the edge over Bryant, who tried to be the soloist and found it wanting.
James is what Bryant wanted to be - the alpha male on a championship-quality team. Bryant is in his 13th season in the NBA, James in his sixth - a difference in experience and polish that favors Bryant.
Bryant may not be as efficient and physically imposing as James, but with the outcome of a game hanging in the balance, he earns the nod over James because of the accuracy and range on his jump shot.
If James has a weakness - and weakness being relative - it is the streaky nature of his outside shot. Opponents encourage James to take the outside shot not because he is inadequate from there but because it is preferable to his journeys to the basket, which often result in a three-point play.
No one finishes at the basket like James, whose combination of body control and strength is unparalleled by someone who handles the ball so adroitly. James is pushing the game forward just as Elgin Baylor, Julius Erving and Michael Jordan once did, only he is not doing so merely as a creative sky walker.
James can elevate to the rim with the best, but it is his strength that adds a unique dimension. James is what Wilt Chamberlain, Wes Unseld or Karl Malone might have been if those strongmen had handled the ball on the perimeter. He can soar to the basket like Bryant but absorb contact like Malone.
As much fun as the James-Bryant debate is, it will become a moot point soon enough. Bryant is 30 years old, still in the prime of his career but possibly down to one or two more high-quality seasons before the inevitable statistical descent begins.
James, at 24, could become virtually indefensible in the seasons ahead if he continues to sharpen his shooting skills. He is shooting a career-high 49.7 percent from the field and 77.7 percent from the free throw line, a progression no doubt causing plenty of sleepless nights among opposing coaches.
Basketball's obsession with in-flight creativity allowed James to be overlooked as the heir to Baylor, Dr. J and Jordan. Bryant was seen as the successor to that group at one time, but he only mimicked Jordan.
James is an original, without peer, a small forward who possesses both finesse and brawn.
It is his NBA now.
when the lakers couldnt get passed the first round, i wanted Kobe to be #1 so bad. Now that we are so close to getting a ring, I could careless if Kobe is #1. Lebron can be the best as long as the Lakers get the ring.
why does it even matter to you either way? They aren't arguing about you being the best player, they are talking about 2 guys you never met before. I get rooting for a team because a team will always be there, but why do you feel such a devotion for a player to get labeled the best player?
NBA is the best basketball so what can you say..
Yup, I remember two years ago, I just really wanted Kobe to get an MVP. Now, I really don't care.
What was it last year when Kobe said he wanted out? I mean he said that he didn't want to play in LA anymore, yet Laker fans still feel they need to stick up for him- why? Your a fan of the Lakers, but you shouldn't feel obligated to stick up for him no matter what he does. I mean you can stick up for him, but it shouldn't really matter to you. I'm sure you are happy with Kobe- he is a great player, but if you came to Cleveland and asked Cavs fans would they rather have Kobe or Lebron, they would all say Lebron. Yeah some nights Kobe might be better, but I'm sick of hearing Laker fans fill their own complexes because everyone isn't envious of their star player. Face it, some people would rather have someone else; you don't need to try to argue with them. Just root for the Lakers and enjoy having a great player.
Win a single le first then call him King. Till then it is complete rubbish.
Jordan was king, or best player in the league, before he won his first le.
You can disagree with LeBron being the best player in the league, but him not winning a championship yet doesn't preclude him from being such.
1st time I disagree with Jamstone ...you cant be the best without winning a le ...otherwise TMAC and Nique would get more love look what winning did to the perceptions of Pierce Allen and KG!
you can be great without a le ...Stockton, Barkley and Malone but the BEST?! you need a le...
I said him when he wanted to be traded. Same thing I did with Shaq. I was very disappointed with Kobe. You signed the contract, quit ing.
Fact: Jordan was considered the best player in the league before he won a le.
You can be the best player in the league without winning a le. But, if you never end up winning a le, with revisionist history, people in the future will discredit you.
In the 1992-93 season, Charles Barkley was a better player than Michael Jordan. People won't remember it that way because the Bulls won the le that year, but he was.
Winning a le takes a team effort. It's not about who is the better "winner." The best player is an individual determination, not a determination based on team success.
Thing is like some have stated here I don't even care if people feel LBJ has passed Kobe I don't for various reasons but it's only a matter of time if he hasn't regardless ...I just want a le and maybe a Finals MVP not because i love Kobe more than my team but so his critics can kiss his ass ...I also dont think hez better than Magic or Mj for that matter ...but just hate the "he hasnt won one since Shaq left" bullcrap ....
that gasol trade
Hence why I think Kobe is better than Jordan...you just summed it up for me...
Jordan was the best talent but not the best player BEFORE he won a le at that time Magic and Isiah were better PLAYERS they did have better teams no doubt about it ...
But Magic and Isiah KNEW it was only amatter of time BEFORE MJ snatched the "crown" from them ...much Like Kobe knows it now ...
I think LBJ even with some minor flaws in his game has a chance to surpass BOTH Kobe, Shaq Duncan and (with health and good support) MJ as well ...
Jamstone name me 1 truly GREAT NBA player who also was clutch, that did not win a le? (from 1980 on?)
Barkley? great offensive talent and rebounder and somewhat clutch ...but poor defender
Stockton? Great in clutch great passer good defender he aybe the only one ...
Malone? Great regular season player struggled in the clutch
Ewing? See above
Miller? Great in clutch but not a transcendant great player ...HOFer though ....
All the great ones truly great ones (of my era) all won les MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Isiah even GP and Kobe all have les ....all the ones who have not are lacking something and it's not revisionist history that says that I can SEE that ...
for example if AI does win one he will NOT be the leader of that team great talent like 'nique but not a great leader ...Malone same thing ...TMAc same thing ....
I am sorry but not only do you need great talent but you have to come through when you are needed the most ...Another exampleto illustrate my point is Duncan vs. David Robinosn
David has the better numbers PER, Scoring, blocks, steals ...but when it comes to winnning Duncan is FAR superior... and im not talking about rings even the 1st le in '99 when a winning play needed to be made it was Duncan, or Kerr or Elliott making those plays ...great player but Robinson was never the BEST like Hakeem or Duncan ...that is why Shaq is not in my top 5 either but he was so dominant he is in my top 10 ...
LBJ should be the best soon but the le is what validates that greatness numbers alone don't do it for me ...you can be great without a le but the BEST on my list all have at least 2 ....
lol....you should go to realcavsfans.com and see what they say.
KillaKobe,
If you don't believe Charles Barkley was a truly great player, then I don't know what to say.
And, if you want to get a little more in depth, all the "truly great" players won championships as the centerpiece of championship teams. That would preclude players like Kobe or Gary Payton. Is Paul Pierce a better player than LeBron? How about Chauncey Billups?
Greatness can be defined in many different ways. And your definition is obviously different from mine.
By the way, Isiah Thomas at no point in his career was a better player than Michael Jordan, not even early in Jordan's NBA career. And, Isiah was an idol of mine. And, I hate Michael Jordan.
In fact my new criteris is to be in the top 10 on my list you need to be a major contributor on at LEAST 2 le teams ...(since 1980) and it hurts cuz i love Nique and Barkley but he is not one of the BEST
1.MJ
2.Magic
3.Bird
4.Hakeem
5.Duncan
6.Shaq
7.Kobe
8.Isiah
9.Worthy
10.McHale/Pippen
Problem is you haven't offered anything tangible to support why Kobe is better than Jordan as an individual player. You basically only say that you "believe" it to be so.
Kobe has a slightly better jumper and better handles. Everything else goes in Jordan's favor. My comment doesn't sum up what you're saying at all because even if you look at them as individuals, Jordan was better.
Then you should probably put Tony Parker in at #10 since he's won three les AND a Finals MVP.
Jamstone I respect your opinion a whole lot ...but we have to agree to disagree ...
Barkley was a great talent one of my faves but his BBall IQ and defense (well heel he was undersized at PF) were lacking even Mj in 1 of his books (a good friend) questioned his leadership and desire ....
As for Isiah look at the Hardwood classics games of Isiah vs. Bernard King in '84 (i believe) or the 3rd quarter vs the Lakers in '88 and tell me that Isiah was not a better player (though on a better team) than MJ talent wise ...no but polayer wise he was better even in 87 when he trew the ball to Bird he was the better player because MJ was not ready to take the le ...yet ...but he would and and he did and all us true hoop heads knew it feel the same about Lebron
As for kobe if you watch the le runs especially the first one and the third he played key roles in winning those including huge games vs. kings and Spurs as well as winning an OT game with Shaq fouled out ...
Diappeared completely versus the Pistons in one series we all know Duncan and teh respect he generated allowed Parker to win that MVP award if you look at my list Tony Parker is nowhere near the player as the other guys on that list ...but he would be up there with Chauncey and Wade in the next 10 ...
Also i dont dismiss regular season performance my top 10 has that and Finals performance as well ....name someone on my top 10 who was not a HOF player I know you started in mid 80's but watch Worthy (without Magic or Scott) torch the Pistonts frontline in 89 or MChale do the same in the ECF in a couple diffrent years ...Pippen is somewaht suspect because he was NOT clutch BUT his defense allowed MJ to roam and conserve energy ...his play-making helped Mj do his thing ...so out of respect I put him there ...but personally thought he was mentally weak ...I almost put Dumars instead ...
You can question Shaq's leadership and desire, yet he's #6 on your list. Poor argument. Winning championships doesn't necessarily absolve players of their faults and flaws. And, not winning a championship doesn't necessarily take away from a player's greatness. It's often perceived that way, but I don't believe that it's an absolute truth. No way.
Personally, I believe that from 1999 to 2002, if you replaced Kobe Bryant with Vince Carter on the Lakers, the Lakers still win championships. Perhaps not a three peat, but they still win championships. That's how dominating Shaq was. If you replace Paul Pierce last year with LeBron James, I think the Celtics win a championship.
You see, it is and always has been a team game. Championships cannot be won by a single individual. Even the perception of Jordan winning it "basically" all by himself is false.
You can't take away from the greatness of a player simply because they couldn't win championships, especially if they played on teams that were simply not championship caliber.
Tony Parker is right there as a player with James Worthy and Scottie Pippen and Kevin McHale and you'd be naive to think otherwise. All second fiddles that needed legendary players to be complementary to in order to have the careers they had. You might not think so because Parker's career is still relatively short. But, he's right there with any of those "complimentary" stars that won multiple championships.
I don't think Chauncey is that high on the rankings list, but at least you can say he was the main guy on a championship team. He didn't have hall of fame players around him. He won a le and Finals MVP as "the guy" on the team.
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