As I understand the Current Health Plan Proposal (Please correct if I'm wrong)

[101A]

1. Employers can keep offering their current coverage - if they drop coverage (and if they have an aggregate payroll over $400K annually), the company will pay an 8% payroll tax to help fund the new government plan.

2. If a person finds themselves without coverage, there will be a new mandate to purchase coverage for themselves and their families. If they still choose not to, they will be saddled with a 2.5% tax penalty.

3. The fed. will set up a "marketplace" for these people to buy coverage - included in it will be a government, or "publicly funded" option. Additionally, there will be new regulations at the federal level toward insurers regarding individual plans; making them not subject to pre-x, not allowing them to drop people who get to sick (a straw man these days, btw), and mandating certain benefits; in short, making the individual marketplace look much more like the current group (or employer provided) marketplace.

4. There are additional regulations included which are intended to control costs; mandatory well visits (physicals, mammograms etc....) End of life cousnselling, etc....

What I don't know is a vital piece of this; will there be a public option for employers to purchase for their employees? If not, then this ultimately changes the over all landscape of healthcare very, very little. Most people get their coverage from their employers, and will continue to do so. Employers will not, en masse, drop the coverage they currently offer, and force their employees to purchase coverage themselves - unless the individual plans are cheaper than the employee portion of the premium in the employers plan (usually restricted as to how high that can be at the state level).

I am trying NOT to make this an opinion thread; just an informational one. If anybody has anything to add about what is ACTUALLY in the plan circulating through congress, please post it; if you want to debate something; start a new thread.

[Supergirl]

1. Employers can keep offering their current coverage - if they drop coverage (and if they have an aggregate payroll over $400K annually), the company will pay an 8% payroll tax to help fund the new government plan.

2. If a person finds themselves without coverage, there will be a new mandate to purchase coverage for themselves and their families. If they still choose not to, they will be saddled with a 2.5% tax penalty.

3. The fed. will set up a "marketplace" for these people to buy coverage - included in it will be a government, or "publicly funded" option. Additionally, there will be new regulations at the federal level toward insurers regarding individual plans; making them not subject to pre-x, not allowing them to drop people who get to sick (a straw man these days, btw), and mandating certain benefits; in short, making the individual marketplace look much more like the current group (or employer provided) marketplace.

4. There are additional regulations included which are intended to control costs; mandatory well visits (physicals, mammograms etc....) End of life cousnselling, etc....

What I don't know is a vital piece of this; will there be a public option for employers to purchase for their employees? If not, then this ultimately changes the over all landscape of healthcare very, very little. Most people get their coverage from their employers, and will continue to do so. Employers will not, en masse, drop the coverage they currently offer, and force their employees to purchase coverage themselves - unless the individual plans are cheaper than the employee portion of the premium in the employers plan (usually restricted as to how high that can be at the state level).

I am trying NOT to make this an opinion thread; just an informational one. If anybody has anything to add about what is ACTUALLY in the plan circulating through congress, please post it; if you want to debate something; start a new thread.

This is a pretty good summary, but you are wrong in thinking most employers provide insurance currently. They don't. Some of the largest employers (Wal Mart, McDonald's, etc) provide NO INSURANCE.

This is basically the plan we have in Massachusetts, and it's worked out pretty well so far, although it's still being tweaked.

No, I don't think employers will be able to buy insurance from the gov't for their employees.

[101A]

No, I don't think employers will be able to buy insurance from the gov't for their employees.

Thank you.

[101A]

This is a pretty good summary, but you are wrong in thinking most employers provide insurance currently. They don't. Some of the largest employers (Wal Mart, McDonald's, etc) provide NO INSURANCE.

Then it looks like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc....are going to have an 8% increase in their payroll if this passes.

[Shelly]

This is a pretty good summary, but you are wrong in thinking most employers provide insurance currently. They don't. Some of the largest employers (Wal Mart, McDonald's, etc) provide NO INSURANCE.

huh? Or are you saying benefits are for management only?

Wal-Mart

McDonald's

[Crookshanks]

Supergirl buys into the Obama propaganda - don't confuse her with facts. And I've heard differing opinions on the Massachusetts plan - many people don't like it and they say it's NOT working.

[sam1617]

This is a pretty good summary, but you are wrong in thinking most employers provide insurance currently. They don't. Some of the largest employers (Wal Mart, McDonald's, etc) provide NO INSURANCE.

This is basically the plan we have in Massachusetts, and it's worked out pretty well so far, although it's still being tweaked.

No, I don't think employers will be able to buy insurance from the gov't for their employees.

For working out pretty well so far, this article doesn't make it sounds so good...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...medical_bills/

[Spursmania]

The analysis is too simplistic and doesn't even begin to address the various interests and changes that would occur in the system. Many of these points have been addressed in various threads.

After all, the bill is 1,000 pages long, hardly encompassing of only 3-4 points. As a matter of fact, the President couldn't even explain it well last night nor did he explain how this would be paid for.

[Spursmania]

Massachussets plan is failing

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...is_failing_us/

[Spursmania]

This is basically the plan we have in Massachusetts, and it's worked out pretty well so far, although it's still being tweaked.

Massachussets sued over costs of health care

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/16hospital.html


Working well, huh

[Supergirl]

then it looks like wal-mart, mcdonalds, etc....are going to have an 8% increase in their payroll if this passes.

good

[Supergirl]

Massachussets sued over costs of health care

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/16hospital.html


Working well, huh

I heard about this lawsuit. Do you know the backstory behind it? BMC is the only hospital in downtown Boston, serving by far the poorest and most unhealthy parts of the city - that's where every victim of gang violence goes, they treat vast numbers of HIV positive people, and have huge numbers of people suffering from diabetes-related illness.

Medicare payments needed to be reigned in, because as Atul Gawande's article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_gawande) highlights, it *IS* a big part of the problem. But something needs to be done to offset the burden BMC is carrying. I am glad they are suing, and the result will be some sort of arrangement will be made. It's one of the tweaks in the system that will have to be worked out.

Did you notice the quote in the article:

"We filed this suit more in sorrow than in anger,” said Elaine Ullian, the hospital’s chief executive. “We believe in health care reform to the bottom of our toes, but it was never, ever supposed to be financed on the backs of the poor, and that’s what has happened in Massachusetts."

[Marcus Bryant]

Then it looks like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc....are going to have an 8% increase in their payroll if this passes.

And a decrease in their employees.

[sam1617]

good

They are just going to fire people to make up with the cost, lower salaries, or increase prices. Or more likely, they will do all three.

[Spursmania]

We fought against tyranny in our Civil War. We wanted less government. Now, we want the government to take over health care because of health care costs not because of the care we're given. This bill takes over the care we're given not the costs.
Will this bill add to our deficit? Will this bill help this recession? Will our taxes increase? Will this bill give us more quality of care? Will this bill assure our old parents will still be treated as well as they are now? Will this bill lead to rationing?(If you say no, you must come from different planet because there is already a shortage of doctors-please wake up!)

This bill does absolutely nothing to address the real issues of cost control. This bill is an expensive costly experiment. Look how well the government ran medicare/medicaid? One will be bankrupt in 7 years. And, we want to trust the government to administer our entire health care system? (For those who say no-do you realize, a board made up of people chosen from the administration will decide for us which procedures we could get and which ones we can't). This bill takes away our individual rights to obtain medical care whenever we need it or want it.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I wish the crybabies would better themselves and get a job that provides healtcare rather than demand I pay more taxes for them.

My God Man... Get a clue. If there isn't something to strive for, why should someone better themselves? Freebies do not promote the general welfare.

[SnakeBoy]

As I understand the current healthcare plan proposal....

[Yonivore]

House healthcare talks break down in anger

Another misdirection by the Obama administration is that Republicans are obstructing healthcare reform. They're not...Democrats don't need Republicans to pass anything through the House or Senate.

They're pissing off the Blue Dog Democrats...that's what's holding up the deal.

[jack sommerset]

I think Obama smoked to much weed. "Hey man, lets get everyone free health care man, yeah, free healthcare for everyone man, pass that joint man" The added bonus to this stupid idea is the goverment is broke. "Lets tax soda man, yeah, tax soda, lots of people drink soda man, pass that joint man" Perhaps if he would pass that joint to me I might agree with some of this dudes policies.

[Yonivore]

Obama channels Seinfeld:

[Jacob1983]

Bush was better at handling the war on terror and the war in Iraq than Obama is when it comes to health care reform. That's how bad Obama sucks ass when it comes to health care reform.

[Wild Cobra]

Bush was better at handling the war on terror and the war in Iraq than Obama is when it comes to health care reform. That's how bad Obama sucks ass when it comes to health care reform.

I agree. He's already worse than President Carter ever was I think.

[ElNono]

What I don't know is a vital piece of this; will there be a public option for employers to purchase for their employees? If not, then this ultimately changes the over all landscape of healthcare very, very little. Most people get their coverage from their employers, and will continue to do so. Employers will not, en masse, drop the coverage they currently offer, and force their employees to purchase coverage themselves - unless the individual plans are cheaper than the employee portion of the premium in the employers plan (usually restricted as to how high that can be at the state level).

This NY Editorial here mentions in passing that the House version of the bill does allows employers to purchase the public option from the exchange.
The entire editorial is an interesting read IMHO, even if you don't agree with reform...

[Yonivore]

This NY Editorial here mentions in passing that the House version of the bill does allows employers to purchase the public option from the exchange.
The entire editorial is an interesting read IMHO, even if you don't agree with reform...

A public option will kill the existing insurance industry and the way medical care is currently provisioned. Commercial insurance companies will not be able to compete with a government-run "public option" and will, in pretty short order, go out of business as everyone switches over to the "public option."

It changes everything. You end up with a single-payer system, unaccountable to anyone and not responsible for making a profit. You end up with VA healthcare.

[ElNono]

A public option will kill the existing insurance industry and the way medical care is currently provisioned. Commercial insurance companies will not be able to compete with a government-run "public option" and will, in pretty short order, go out of business as everyone switches over to the "public option."

It changes everything. You end up with a single-payer system, unaccountable to anyone and not responsible for making a profit. You end up with VA healthcare.

Opinion. Certainly respectable and debatable, but opinion nonetheless.