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them dont need their service, lets try a crazy experiment and see how we get along without them
There are many threads that are discussing illegal alliens because of the health care reform act being debated.
The solution is not a simple one to address. Pro's and Con's on both sides have lamented their points.
What of..instead of...just legallizing the already illegals in this country that if they so wish instead of deportation they were granted Indentured Servitude to this nation?
Health Care would be provided. Granted it would be taken out of their pay. Salaries would be more than they receive now. Many problems of needing to improve infrastructure would be solved. And our tax dollars would not just be wasted while instead actually be used to improving our nation.
College education could be obtained. Tax revenue would increase. And many of the criminal aspect would be eliminated from our prison system. The people that have already gone through the current legal process of citizenship would not be cheated. And if any illegal that is willing to work as Indentured Servitude can find the way to achieve citizenship as granted now would still have that oportunity to do so.
There would be other benefits as well to this nation. Too many that I would care to post because it would make this post way too long.
Point is...if somebody wants to be in this country and receive the benefits...they should be willing to have choices instead of just amnesty.
And before I hear somebody talk about it's not humane. Think about all of our service members who are indentured to serving in the military once they made that choice. If it's good enough for them...it should be more than welcomed by an illegal allien.
them dont need their service, lets try a crazy experiment and see how we get along without them
Repug/right-wing racists have no solution for illegal, diseased brownies.
Last edited by boutons_deux; 09-18-2009 at 12:44 PM.
Please Rev. Wright try and comport yourself with some dignity.
How untrue. They are already employed by many in this country. But tax dollars aren't being garnished for that employment while tax dollars are being used for their existance. That's 2 dollars of tax revenue lost for evey dollar being generated.
Just legalizing the already 20 mil. won't change the fact that others will enter and find the same jobs that, after legalizing the existing, won't have anymore because they would have to work in other areas than who are paying them now who won't be willing to pay a higher amount.
This was a gut check post on my part. But as I think about it even more. Another scenerio would be...Those that pay cheap labor could still do so drawing from a pool of indentured servants of the nation. Only...that money would go directly to the U.S. Government. Hence...having the most wealthy contribute more to the government just as some would like to see happen. Only this way...you wouldn't have to raise their taxes.
And then again...also...there would be a reward to any person turning in any person who knowingly hires any illegal not part of the program.
There's all sorts of abuses possible with contractual servitude. There's good reasons the practice died out here.
And to think I thought not a soul here would ever get that reference.
thats what the experiment part would be forHow untrue
The association was immediate for me.
You are going to extreme lengths to legitamize amnesty calling it different names.First off we don't need their labor,greedy s who want to drive down wages and cut into labor laws need their labor.The jobs they are taking affect the poor and lower middle class who, by having their wages driven down are not only cut off from upward mobility, but put in a downward spiral.This is an assult on the workers of both Mexico and the U.S . With current population growth from immigration our population growth is unsustanable you may want to check out a website called Numbers USA. A corrupt goverment in Mexico that wants to prop up the Oligarchies and corporations and they need to export political malcontents who are trying to loosen the stranglehold the political and bussiness class have on the wealth of Mexico.Wrapping this in some alturlistc mask doesn't make it anything more than it is.
Agreed. But enslaving somebody is not the same as servitude.
Do you think the solution is just granting amnesty?
If we do...then we perpetuate the need for social programs increasing our demand on tax revenue to support those programs.
How is it wrong to allow somebody to have a chance at citizenship by working off that privelage more so wrong than just giving it to them for nothing?
How is this fair to the millions who have already gone the route of becoming legal citizens?
The suggestion in no way implies slavery... though it might seem that way in your thought.
Just let them vote already.
Anyways, since immigration and the language have arisen, it's time for a few observations.
First, illegal immigration often serves as the justification for good ol' Americans to explain their failures in life. What better bogeyman for white collar workers to employ than Raul and Jose who will work for pay when it's 105 Fahrenheit out, digging ditches? Obviously the professional class is in the crosshairs as you can pick up any illegal off the street and they can put in a solid 12 hours down at the local law or engineering firm. Lest we forget that it's often the professional class who is hiring illegals.
Secondly, yes, illegals cost the taxpayer through their use of public services. Further use will cost the taxpayers more. Currently illegals contribute less than they use in public services, yet the professional class wants them here.
Thirdly, we're all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Some free, some not. In any event, the public services immigrants enjoy today are far greater than what was offered way back when. Also, those immigrants did maintain a separate ethnic and national iden y, contrary to current whitewashing.
Fourth, illegal means illegal. There's no other way to sugarcoat it into some kind of politically correct, mealy mouth interpretation. Illegals are here because they benefit those who shape laws and politicians.
Finally, additional immigration would not be a problem for this country if it didn't seek to offer public cradle to grave care, and if we didn't have this latent fear of population growth in our society.
Coincidentally my illegal immigrant friend, or should I say undo ented worker, has picked up a new profession. He's going to be an unlicensed pharmacist.
puff puff pass holmes?
Spurnation, what's wrong with the green card process we have?
I am not legitimizing amnesty. On the contrary. I am looking at dealing with an issue that is never going to change in this country. Illegals making their way here.
If you think my suggestion won't work...think about the other option...legalizing for free.
And before you go into just deporting all...that will never happen. Not today. The logistics of such wouldn't allow it to happen.
No. We need better control of the border, and a legal pathway for the cheap labor business demands.
This is a bit of a false dilemma. See above.How is it wrong to allow somebody to have a chance at citizenship by working off that privelage more so wrong than just giving it to them for nothing?
Only if I let you do the talking for me. Fat chance of that.The suggestion in no way implies slavery... though it might seem that way in your thought.
Indentured servitude leads to slavery. Holders of the indenture will abuse it. It's in their direct economic interest to do so.
It's also contrary to the customary freedom inhabitants of the USA have enjoyed for quite some time, but I can see that troubles you little. It's a big reason others want to come here, and a justifiable point of pride for Americans. You'd like to change that.
You're en led to your opinion, just as I'm en led to say it's not too well thought out and un-American to boot.
Nothing. Green Card means one has gone through the government channels to be here legally and work.
As I stated before...if one chooses to go that route and has the ability, finances to do so...great. That system works.
But for those here illegally... that can't afford that route...could have opportunity to become a citizen and privelage of working here through another means and this country would benefit from the tax revenue generated by that other means.
I will grant that it's generally in all of our interests to have one class of free individuals (ie "citizen") as far as the state is concerned. We are far too willing to allow individuals in this society to be defined by race, gender, class, nationality, etc....
Is the thought that if we make them legal, that all the sudden their employment agreements will change and they will stop taking money under the table and request for the goverment to get a portion of their check?
If we are so outraged with the problem, why not make more of an effort to fine those employing them? Our current mentality is like going after drug addicts as the problem rather than the dealers.
Why not just propose an alternate green card program in which illegal citizens are provided temporary housing and food and a government sponsored job? Somewhat like a "Peace Corps" for illegal immigrants. Heck, they could go all out and even teach them a trade!
Of course, conservatives would never go for that.
"why not make more of an effort to fine those employing them"
... because they are voters.
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