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In the long list of ups in health reform, ups mostly dictated, even written, by health industry lobbyists, this one is not anywhere near the top.
REALLY defend unions getting an exemption from "Cadillac" health care taxes?
So if I choose "Plan A" through my company's health plan, I have to pay more taxes, but someone making the same amount as me and chooses that same plan will not if they belong to a union.
Union members being exempt because Obama doesnt have a ing backbone INFURIATES ME. For the first time in my life, I feel helpless as the government is screwing me over! Obama!
He seriously sucks.
In the long list of ups in health reform, ups mostly dictated, even written, by health industry lobbyists, this one is not anywhere near the top.
Okay, please give me a worse example.
How is this even cons utional?!!!! THeres now a financial incentive from the federal government to join a ING union!
Obama.
Yeah well. Americans. I hope he doesn't stop here. You people deserve the worst he throws at you.
This was the response I expected from "progressives".
This big fat wet kiss was indefensible.
lol, I'm not some ing progressive. I'd just assume get this on for real. The level of hatred and loathing I have for humanity in general (red or blue), puts me a quite a bit left of the average dem.
the Labour Party of america.
Anyone advocating such a thing is not an American. Maybe by birth or residancy, but not in heart.
What's not American is being a cheerleader for companies who sell our nation out to China, like you constantly do.
Banksters get special treatment, like money managers paying 15% capital gains rate on income they get from FEES (not risks of their own capital) managing Other People's Money. But the wrongies don't about that.
Union bashing is nothing but another knee-jerk hot button from the right-wing, business-friendly/employee-destructive propaganda machine.
You really show your ignorance when you state such things about me. Do you forget that I have offered solutions to stop such things?
you, and stick to the topic of this thread. Want to debate that again, start a new thread.
Go yourself and quit wrapping your warped views in the flag, you ing re .
It's not union bashing.
Why should a union employee or employer get special treatment that a non-union employee and employers don't?
Can you say special rights?
The govt. workers (union members) have officially become a higher class to us commoners. What better way to create more democrats than to give incentives to join unions, and become dependant on the govt. Socializing healthcare will do both now.
You're right.
I had a brain-fart.
I forgot that demonrats have to buy they cons uency, making democrats no better than s.
You're such a partisan dumbass.
Because people should be able to coalesce and flex their collective willpower should they so choose. Just like their employers can always fire them if they feel that willpower threatening. Just like people can choose to stand alone and try their luck. But to quote Simon, there's nothing wrong with group actuaries.
Whether this is true or not, is open for debate.
My questions are-
Why on earth the OP would express surprise that 'progressives' could possibly 'defend' special treatment for unions? It's the status quo.
Why should people who have organized themselves and argued themselves into a better position in life, as a result of their group's efforts, be prevented from reaping their own hard fought oats? To deny them the result of their collective work and will seems awfully un-American.
Last edited by balli; 01-17-2010 at 04:20 PM.
So you are ok with price fixing? What about cartels? I cannot understand why someone who works harder than everyone should get paid the same as someone who does the bare minimum. I also do not see where the incentive is for him to improve and advance?
I think the OP is surprised at how far the unions were exempt. Also Barry ran on a pretty conservative platform to get elected.It should be surprising to everyone how far left he has gone.
Do you actually want a decent discussion about this? Will you actually listen? Guess we'll see...
Some unions negotiated for so-called "cadillac" health care plans (which really are simply "good" health care plans, the kind we all deserve) in exchange for raises. It was a major concession on their part, and so it's a hard hit to ask them to scale back on these plans. But they need to, in order to provide health care for the rest of the country. What they agreed to recently was to do so, but to delay the date by which it goes into effect in order to give unions enough time to see their current contracts expire and and come up for renegotiation. This is perfectly fair. They're not getting off without being subjected to the tax, they're just getting time to adjust for it.
As for Nelson's agreement - he negotiated a good deal for his state. Perhaps you should elected a politician who fights for his state so well.
The health care bill will require sacrifices from everybody, which is why it's so hard to get through. But it is necessary if we want to avoid the current status quo bankrupting our country. The Democratic caucus is doing their best to negotiate the best deal they can for their cons uents, while keeping the larger national goal of curbing health care costs in sight. The Republicans are simply being obstructionists, and refusing to actually do their jobs, because the status quo benefits the fat cat corporations who fund their campaigns.
Also, do we need a little refresher course on what unions are in the first place. Organized groups of workers coming together to lobby for their rights. Without a union, you have no rights as a worker. That's just the honest truth. And don't think employers are ever going to change that - they hold onto that power fiercely.
The answer is not to bash unions, it's to support unions and encourage more workers to act as a union, to fight for their rights.
Don't worry, the death panels will kill the union members too.
Nice Kool Aid. People in non unions often choose which employer to take a job with based off compensation and benefits. To say that union workers give up more for their health care is disingenuous. The bottom line is that workers who perform the same job and are paid the same salary are going to be taxed at different rates depending on whether they are in a union.
As you said, the sacrifice should be required by EVERYBODY, not just non-union workers.
That was a pretty weak attempt and it says something about you that your "response" includes calling Repubs "obstructionists". You can call conservatives everything in the book, I dont give a . Repubs arent putting in special incentives for union workers. Im not in a union, I dont want to be in a union.
And I LOVE that you claim the repubs are doing this because "corporations fund their campaigns". As my favorite liberal, Arriana Huffington, already said, the lobbyists should have been Time's "Person of the Year" last year for the special deals insurance companies got in this "bill". In addition, UNIONS FUND DEMOCRAT CANDIDATES. THIS is why they got that deal, not because Democrats are looking out for their "cons uents".
This is so ing ridiculous and just shows some people will defend ANYTHING!!!! You make me sick.
Give me an example of something comparable. Show me an example where two citizens get a different tax bill based on something such as whether they are in a freaking union.
Tax bills arent a Palin invention to scoff at.
I was actually thinking YOU would be the one to try to defend this .
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