Rank Pop's roster fails

[TheChillFactor]

1. Richard Jefferson
2. Luis Scola
3. Derek Anderson
4. Hedo Turkoglu
5. Steve Smith
6. Nick Van Gangsta
7. Jackie Butler
8. Antonio McDyess
9. Beno Udrih
10. Ian Mahinmi
11. Chucky Brown
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Ime Udoka
14. Drew Gooden
15. Terry Porter
16. Kurt Thomas

Honorable mention: The Malik Rose extension

[GrandeDavid]

RJ is looking particularly damaging. He just is not a good fit with this team and his contract is ridiculously high to absorb this kind of awful defense. Shame about Scola...Jackie Butler, I forgot about him! I wonder where he is these days.

[kace]

1. Richard Jefferson
2. Luis Scola
3. Derek Anderson
4. Hedo Turkoglu
5. Steve Smith
6. Nick Van Gangsta
7. Jackie Butler
8. Antonio McDyess
9. Beno Udrih
10. Ian Mahinmi
11. Chucky Brown
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Ime Udoka
14. Drew Gooden
15. Terry Porter
16. Kurt Thomas

Honorable mention: The Malik Rose extension

a little too easy and unfair to bring players that everyone thought they would work (including RJ and Dice, who haven't even say their last words).

some others were very cheap so were worth the try even if with few chances to work (stoudemire, NVE, maybe even Gooden considering he was one of the only bigs avaible then and for just 6 months...)

Luis Scola, Ian are the ones where i really can't see why Pop has handled/handles the situation like he did/does.

[TheChillFactor]

i know what you're saying but all these guys were supposed to do much better than they did. i don't know how you leave RJ and mcdyess off the list given what i've seen through 1/2 a season. especially w/ RJ's contract....

[mystargtr34]

I think people over rate Scola. When a player is on another team you tend to take note of his obvious strengths and ignore his flaws. He's pretty much a poor man's David West and a homeless man's Carlos Boozer/Zach Randolph. Nice stats, but undersized, no length, mediocre defense, zero interior prescence on defense. He would solve very few of our problems.

Having said that, i would take him over McDyess in a heart beat who really doesnt do much of anything.

[Twisted_Dawg]

1. Richard Jefferson
2. Luis Scola
3. Derek Anderson
4. Hedo Turkoglu
5. Steve Smith
6. Nick Van Gangsta
7. Jackie Butler
8. Antonio McDyess
9. Beno Udrih
10. Ian Mahinmi
11. Chucky Brown
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Ime Udoka
14. Drew Gooden
15. Terry Porter
16. Kurt Thomas

Honorable mention: The Malik Rose extension

#5....Did you mean Charles Smith? He was I think Pop's first big trade and we got this crippled stiff with 3 years and $30 million left on his contraact.

[Chieflion]

Pop has the tools with this bunch. He needs to settle on a starting linup and a second five and go with the rotation rain or shine. It would be more productive in the long run. Stop tweaking this and that and let the guys play through it.

Start
Tony
George
Bonner
Blair
Duncan

First of the Bench

Manu
Mason
Jefferson
Mahinmi
Mcdyess

And for god stakes POST UP JEFFESON run the offense through him Mason and Manu

Give them minutes and let them play through the fricken growing pains

Simple

You all can see its just logical

Pop is such a blind

#1 thing about that proposed lineup

NO MORE ING SMALL BALL!!!!!!!!

Ya right....

[venitian navigator]

Ya right....

No way we can have that line-up...that's the case when small ball (or even a decent small forward) would kill us in an hartbeat...

IMHO the correct line-up should be :

Parker - Hill - Jefferson - Mahinmi - Duncan

then Ginobili - Mason (Hairston) - Blair (Bonner) - Mc Dyess

Reasons :
1) we need two 7 footers starting
2) Parker probably trust his french friend
3) that line-up should be very good for an up tempo style
4) Gino works usually well with Blair
5) our bench, this way, looks incredibly solid
6) we need to try something different

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I remember plenty of people here were looking forward to the development of Jackie Butler, myself included. I still think it's a really big shame he didn't work out.

[elbamba]

Tim Duncan, Manu, Tony, Bowen, Hill, Blair, Brent Barry, Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, Kevin Willis, Rasho, Oberto, Speedy all more then make up for any bad moves. I trust the Spurs judgment when it comes to talent. I do not trust pop as an in game adjustment coach. He sticks with the same plan and sadly this year, that plan is to have one player bring the ball up dribble for 15 seconds before making either a bad pass or a couple of bad passes and have someone shoot a bad three pointer.

Other coaches would find a way to incorporate Jefferson's skills into the game. He has them, we know he has them at a championship capacity as he was a major factor in those NJ Nets teams.

[dbestpro]

It is so amussing for people who want to blame RJ for the Spurs problems. Has he played great? No, but he has played as good or better than Bowen when you look at both sides of the ball. Where RJ is struggling is the switch back anf forth from small forward and power forward. It is screwing his game up just like Mason lost his game last year when Pop tried to run him at the point. Pop is an excellent x and o coach, but his constaint desire to have players play out of position makes everyone one step slow on rotation or in moving the ball, not to mention the scarifice that happens on the boards.

[dbestpro]

Pops greatest roster fail happened when he first got here.

The San Antonio Spurs, in an effort to fill the void left at the power forward position, recently acquired Charles Smith and Monty Williams from the New York Knicks in a trade for J. R. Reid, Brad Lohaus and a 1996 first-round draft choice.

The Spurs were in first place of the Midwest Division at All-Star break, but were still missing a consistent power forward since Dennis Rodman was traded to the Bulls at the start of the season.

[spurs10]

The starters last night looked good. As the game progressed, the Rockets were killing us both in the paint and on the perimeter. Tim seemed alone on defense on the interior. Their smalls were getting anywhere they wanted and dishing it out for open looks most the 2nd half. I wonder, when we are getting owned in the paint, why none of our bigs are getting to play. Is Ian too inexperienced to work into the system? His youth, length, athleticism, and energy seem to be something we need. Tim can't defend the basket by himself.

[Capt Bringdown]

Didn't Pop also deliver a "thank you" contract to AJ post '99 that turned out to be a up?

[sananspursfan21]

i'm beginning to think letting go of drew gooden will rank among the top. who would've known jefferson wouldn't be playing as good as he could.

[baseline bum]

Losing DA was one of the best things to ever happen to the team. DA would score 16 for you, but he'd give up 25 on the defensive end. His defense made Udoka or Manu look like Scottie Pippen. Plus, I can't imagine the Spurs being able to bring Manu in with Anderson in the mix.

[BackHome]

If Pops name was Hill he would have been fired allready.

[DAF86]

No way we can have that line-up...that's the case when small ball (or even a decent small forward) would kill us in an hartbeat...

IMHO the correct line-up should be :

Parker - Hill - Jefferson - Mahinmi - Duncan

then Ginobili - Mason (Hairston) - Blair (Bonner) - Mc Dyess

Reasons :
1) we need two 7 footers starting
2) Parker probably trust his french friend
3) that line-up should be very good for an up tempo style
4) Gino works usually well with Blair
5) our bench, this way, looks incredibly solid
6) we need to try something different

Every single word of this.

[slick'81]

porter played well if i recall

[spurtech09]

no more small ball damnit

[DesignatedT]

1. Richard Jefferson
2. Luis Scola
3. Derek Anderson
4. Hedo Turkoglu
5. Steve Smith
6. Nick Van Gangsta
7. Jackie Butler
8. Antonio McDyess
9. Beno Udrih
10. Ian Mahinmi
11. Chucky Brown
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Ime Udoka
14. Drew Gooden
15. Terry Porter
16. Kurt Thomas

Honorable mention: The Malik Rose extension

dont forget the spurs were trying all these players out while staying UNDER the cap, while other teams were throwing loads of money at the higher prospects.

[Fabbs]

additions

Finley extension 2007-
Rasho overpay

[angelbelow]

I think people over rate Scola. When a player is on another team you tend to take note of his obvious strengths and ignore his flaws. He's pretty much a poor man's David West and a homeless man's Carlos Boozer/Zach Randolph. Nice stats, but undersized, no length, mediocre defense, zero interior prescence on defense. He would solve very few of our problems.

Having said that, i would take him over McDyess in a heart beat who really doesnt do much of anything.

Good post.

[objective]

Scola overrated?

Sorry, but how the Spurs dealt with Scola probably cost them at least one le.

The key to Scola wasn't in his respectable rebounding (which has been better in the NBA), his savvy scoring around the basket like a supercharged Oberto, his solid mid-range jumper, and his offensive and defensive craftiness . . .

It was the fact that as a continuously contending team, the Spurs had limited opportunities to get good players as the years went on. They were consistently drafting towards the end of the first round, they were out of capspace, they didn't have any young players signed to use as trade bait . . . they were in a routine of signing guys in their 30s (Barry, Vaughn, NVE, Oberto, Elson) or young unproven guys (Fattie Butler).

The miraculous thing about Scola was that here was one of the top players in Europe, in his mid-20s, and the Spurs had his exclusive rights! Not only that, but he would be cheap, he was publicly asking for a 3 year deal between 9-10 million! That was insane! That a team always up against the cap had a useful piece right in their grasp for so cheap . . . the Spurs were freaking lucky.

Add to that the built-in 'corporate knowledge' due to him having a rapport with Manu. And Tim Duncan being his favorite player. And little things like him and Splitter being so close that a son was named after the other, that could have come in handy with trying to lure Splitter over the first time.

But the Spurs pissed it all away. They had a legit big-time rotation big man with multiple, legit skills who did all the little things people associate with being a winner right in their hands for cheap and they blew it.

They blew it so bad it warped the minds of kool-aid drinking Spurs fans. To this day people believe the anti-Scola trash leaked to the media and invented their own to build upon it. Go back and read the Scola threads and view a mass hysteria of buffoonery as people didn't only just claim Scola was overrated or too small, but sputtered garbage like "Scola demands to start! But we have Tim Duncan, he's our PF!" or "Scola is demanding the full MLE! That bas !" and other nonsense. Meanwhile Scola signs for less than the MLE and humbly comes off the bench at the start of his Rockets career. lol

And let's not forget the entirely bizarre line-in-the-sand . . . an insane insistence that giving 3/9-10 was unacceptable because it would have made Scola the 'highest paid second rounder in history'. It was so strange, it was like insisting that the Spurs shouldn't pay Scola more than the minimum because that would set a precedent of making him the highest paid player with long, greasy hair.

But the Spurs had a piece right in their grasp, for cheap, and they blew it. That's a huge roster fail and honest history books will reflect that.

Because the other players on the list mostly . . . were desperation moves. They were reaching, hoping for a move to work out. Derek Anderson, desperate and were lucky to get him on the 1-year deal. Steve Smith, desperation move when Anderson wanted to go to Portland. Hedo Turkoglu, last minute reaction to not wanting to pay Stephen Jackson. Richard Jefferson, last-hurrah reaction to being rolled in the first round. Kurt Thomas, desperation trade to counter the Lakers. McDyess, last hurrah attempt at a big man (makes more than Scola!). NVE, Stoudamire, Gooden, short term desperation. All desperate moves, but because of that they couldn't be held too much against the front office. Their backs were against the wall, some move had to be made, they made them.

Scola wasn't.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

1. Richard Jefferson
2. Luis Scola
3. Derek Anderson
4. Hedo Turkoglu
5. Steve Smith
6. Nick Van Gangsta
7. Jackie Butler
8. Antonio McDyess
9. Beno Udrih
10. Ian Mahinmi
11. Chucky Brown
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Ime Udoka
14. Drew Gooden
15. Terry Porter
16. Kurt Thomas

Honorable mention: The Malik Rose extension

There's one uva lot of revisionist history in that list.

I'm disappointed in Jefferson, but when you get him for nothing, is that really a bad trade?

Scola was clearly a financial decision and thus out of Pop's hands. He wasn't traded for lack of talent or fit, he was traded to avoid the lux tax.

The Anderson decision turned out to be a great one.

Turk crapped his pants in the 2004 playoffs and only became what he is today in 2007. At the time, he had to go.

Dice has been here half a season - he's been disappointing, but it's premature to judge him at this point.

Udrih??? He nearly lost us the le in 2005, and after he was traded in 2007 we went on to win it all. How was that a bad move?

Most of the rest of those guys were vet min pickups. So what?

I think the personnel department of the Spurs (which goes well beyond Pop) has done a mostly excellent job over the last decade.