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he's a better player. Doesn't possess longjevity Duncan has had. But his influence on basketball is far bigger than Duncan's
in all these 'lists' i see Bird usually put ahead of Duncan.
why exactly?
bird won 3 les. duncan won 4. bird had 2 finals MVPs. duncan has 3. none of duncans les were back to back. neither were any of bird's. Bird was consistently outstanding for like 9-10 seasons, then broke down and retired after like 12. Duncan has had 13 consecutive outstanding seasons and counting. bird has a slight edge in offensive stats, duncan has the edge in defensive stats.
what argument exists to support Bird over Duncan? just that he played for the boston celtics?
he's a better player. Doesn't possess longjevity Duncan has had. But his influence on basketball is far bigger than Duncan's
how so, in either case?
Bird won a ridiculous 3 MVPs in a row in arguably the toughest era of basketball in NBA history..all 3 of his MVP wins were pretty much undisputed, he won the voting by a HUGE margin..that's ridiculous when you do it 3 times in a row..his peak was higher than Timmy's IMO..also, while it may be unfair, the fact that Bird helped "save" basketball has a big impact as well..the main argument is the peak though, 3 consecutive undisputed MVPs combined with 2 les in between IIRC..
Timmy's my favorite player, but I don't think you can put him ahead of Bird right now..I don't think it's a significant margin, I think Duncan is very, very close, but I think Bird's 3-year peak puts him on top here..
because he is a better player?
larry bird is a consensus top 5 player among people who know basketball. duncan is a top 10 player. top 5> top 10
He's whiter, uglier, and fatter.
i dont think the 'toughest era' was one in which 2 teams split the les for almost the whole decade
you had two stacked huge-market franchises with all the media behind them rolling past everybody else.
bird's teams were much more stacked than duncan's were.
and what is the actual evidence other than 'he just is'
the only player post merger who is better than bird is michael jordan. it's jordan bird, then a big dropoff then u have magic , then others.
Bird was a stone killer. Most clutch performer, consistently, I've ever seen.
I was reading Joe Posnanski's very fine column on Tim Duncan in Sports Illustrated last month and came across a statement which jumped off the page and bit me on the nose. Concluding his homage to Duncan, Posnanski wrote He's one of the 10 best players in NBA history ... ''
"No bloody way," I screamed.
What am I missing here?
Off the top of my head I'd take Wilt Chamberlain (always No. 1, the guy averaged 50.4 points a game during the 1961-62 season), Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Bob Cousy ahead of Duncan. There's a quick 10 without as much as a three-second violation.
Nothing against Duncan, but you could also give me Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Julius Erving, Elgin Baylor, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and Kevin McHale. Oh, and let's not forget Bob Pet , Moses Malone, John Stockton and Isiah Thomas.
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.
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I talked to his coach, Gregg Popovich, after Sunday night's game. I asked Pop about Duncan as a top-10 player. Of all time.
"I think he'd be flattered and embarrassed by that,'' said Popovich. "I think in some ways he suffers from the small market, with the pop culture and all that. He couldn't care less about that. It's nice that some people rank him high, but we've had a lot of great players in this league.''
Duncan was predictably humble about the whole deal.
Told that he was ranked among the top 10 players of all time he said, "It's a bit shocking. I don't know what to say about that. I know my [style of] basketball. It's nice to be thought of as one of the top players, but I can think of a lot of great players.''
We went down my list. I started rattling off names.
"You got 12 right there,'' he said.
Tim Duncan is not going to fight about this. Even he admits it is absurd. He is a great player. He's just not one of the 10 greatest of all time.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...urs/index.html
Apparently your boy TD doesn't even agree with you.
dude look , i love tim duncan , that's why i am on this forum. but Bird is just better.and what is the actual evidence other than 'he just is'
Better scorer ( carried his team everytime when it's needed)
better passer( best nonpg passer of all time)
made all his teammates better( he basicly made Mchale , who gets at least 10 easy points per game from bird passes )
career 10 rpg guy with 2 other 10 rpg guy on the roster.
clutchest player of all time(made the more game winners than anyone i can remember)
That's a bit of a stretch. Mchale is one of the best post players to ever play the game and none of his moves were the result of any pass.
bird and magic in the 80s was kinda similar to lebron and kobe.
magic was 2nd fiddle to Kareem in early part of his career, like kobe was to shaq. then magic started winning mvp after kareem like kobe did in 08.
bird was like lebron(well cept that bird won rings). a point forward, who led his team in almost every stat category.
Bird's teams were more stacked, but his compe ion was tougher..
LOL @ Cobbler using Duncan's quote as an argument against him..you think Timmy is going to say he's better than any of those guys?..apparently you haven't followed him and how he acts..he's not Lebron..
Shaughnessy is an idiot.
But I agree that Larry Bird belongs higher on the list than Tim Duncan.
I know very well how humble TD is and how he shuns the limelight. I personally think hes a top 10 player if you looked at my list. I had read that article and thought it was interesting that BOTH he and Pop didn't think he was top 10. Apparently, you are wrong yet again. Go figure...
Tim Duncan in his prime was as dominant as Bird in his prime, just in a different way, considering his control of the paint on the defensive end. But Bird had that killer mentality, where he would be playing your team and you think "Bird isn't going to let us win". Only a few players in NBA history have gotten to that level. I've never felt it with Duncan.
I also think Bird was better than Magic. In fact it was never a real argument IMO, as great as Magic was. Magic won more championships with us, but in that era, dealing with the level of stacked teams that were playing, its going to be tough to win. Magic was playing with Kareem, and as good as McHale was he was no Kareem.
Bird was a once in a lifetime type player and compe or. Have to give him the edge over Duncan.
Wait, how am I wrong?..you actually expected them to say Duncan is better than any of those guys?..that would mean they have to actually name one of those players and say Timmy is ahead of them, which is something Pop/Duncan would never do..
You can't just say somebody is "wrong" when they aren't..you do that very often..
Pace. Even mediocre players by today's standards were throwing up 20 points a game/or double digit boards in those days.
No way a player like Kevin Willis gets anywhere near 16 boards a game today like he did in 91.
You were WRONG in saying I apparently don't follow him or know how he acts. I do follow and do know how he acts. So I CAN say you're wrong... because you were. Duh.
Why would they have to name any player? What a moronic comment. They couldn't simply say... Timmy could certainly be included in that group?
Bird by a pretty good margin. If Bird had a lick of athleticism, it would be even farther apart.
The guy named a bunch of players and asked if Duncan thought he was ahead of any of them..if he said "yes", are you telling me the reporter isn't going to ask him "which one would you take off?"..he obviously would..
He literally named names..when a reporter just says top 10 or 15 or whatever and doesn't actually name people, it's a lot different than actually naming a bunch of individuals as part of the list..seems pretty clear..
LOL @ "moronic statement"..I don't think I've seen a poster that drops so many insults that have nothing to do with the argument..
Oh.... I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were talking about a conversation you "think" would have taken place after the reporter asked Duncan if he thought he was ahead of any of them.... which of course the reporter did not ask in the first place.
You're a moron... That's why. Use a mirror.
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