Reply With Quote
Could you repeat that?
It's off season, have fun with this what-if:
Two trades changed the dynamics of the west last decade, Shaq to the Heat, and Gasol to the Lakers. (I’m a real devil with the Gasol trade, as you will see) I already posted a hypothetical Kobe for Tim trade in 2003 here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=327
That, and the debate in that thread over who forced Shaq out of LA led me to become fascinated with the following hypothetical situation in 2004. Who cares if salaries don’t work or not. This is really going to mess with everyone’s mind because some favorite and hated players get traded away, or don’t. Hey, it’s all about your team anyway, isn’t it? The last 6 les are now “unofficially” up for grabs.
Here’s the criteria
1) Summer of 2004: Tim Duncan is traded to the Miami Heat for Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant
2) Phil Jackson stays with the Lakers. Shaq agrees to give the reins of the team to Kobe. Both Kobe and Shaq put up numbers as they did in reality. Derek Fisher leaves for Golden State. Payton stays, Malone retires. Lakers remain a two man team, filling holes in the lineup from the stock available.
3) 2005: Spurs draft Bynum and Farmar. Spurs get Kwame Brown in 2005 for Butler and trade him for Pau Gasol in 2008. (Gasol has to go somewhere, right? So I play Devil here and send him to the Spurs). Assumption will be Spurs are not serious contenders until Gasol trade.
4) Mavs beat Golden State in 2007 playoffs.
5) Phoenix will not be trading Marion for Shaq
6) The Cavs won’t make the finals in 2007, east is too tough.
7) All contending teams remain unchanged except as above.
8) Everyone stays healthy. Tough to assume, but go with it, ok?
9) 6 les are now up for grabs from 2005 to 2010, Spurs give up 2, Lakers 2, Celtics 1, Heat 1.
10) 2010: LeBron joins the Heat. Duncan tries to extend his career like Kareem did. Bosh can go to the Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, or Rockets. Carmelo Anthony team status still undetermined.
Pistons fans should like this because the Spurs won’t be there to beat them in 2005.
Mavs fans should like this because they rule the west for at least 3 years.
Heat fans should like this because it keeps them compe ive longer and they may even win in 2005 and 2006.
Spurs fans might like this if they buy into the fact they are the current Lakers core with Parker and Ginobili replacing Kobe, and still have their better bench. If they win 2 of 3 LOB’s in 2008-10, they still have 4 les and a chance for more. I know no Spurs fan wants to trade Duncan, but if there was a time and a way to do it, this would seem to clearly put the Spurs at the top of the west now:
C: Bynum
PF: Gasol
SF: RJ
PG: Parker
SG: Ginobili
Bench: Odom, Blair, Hill, Splitter, Farmar? etc….
Lakers fans should like this because it shows Dr. Buss made the right choice to trade Shaq when he had value.
Suns fans should like this as no Spurs team is on hand to spoil their seasons for awhile.
Now three questions:
1) What do you think happens in 2005-2010? My impression is the west plays out like this.: Chances are the Mavs make the finals 2005-07 and probably win at least one. The Lakers last chance may be 2005 with a core of Shaq and Kobe. After that they fall off the radar a bit each year. In 2008 the Spurs begin to represent the west for 3 seasons, with tough fights with the Mavs who have more playoff experience. The east sees the Pistons and Heat fight it out 2005-07. The east wins 1 or 2 les. In 2008, the Celtics take over and reach the finals 3 years running. Spurs and Celtics probably go 2-1, but who comes out on top? Cavs don’t make a finals.
2) How do these revamped Spurs fare against either Miami or Boston in 2011 and on? Who can challenge the Spurs in the west now?
3) Would the Heat with Duncan today be better than with Bosh?
See it gets tricky now. If a Spurs fan says they will beat the Heat, they may be saying the Lakers in reality will too. See, it all comes down to team loyalty, thanks for reading.
Could you repeat that?
what a stupid thread, TBH..
it's a lot of ifs tbh
Kor I. Ellis wouldn't be the girl she is today, that's for darn sure.
what if the terrorists targeted Los Angeles instead of NYC?
Lohan & Hilton's who hoos would be obliterated.
Shaq>Duncan
Maybe. But I dont think so. And if that trade happens, Miami is still winning les and my guess Lebron is in L.A. Chicago or NY ... shaq at his best might be better but duncan had the longer peak. duncan is the all around better player IMHO, shaq a more dominant inside presence.
on point
tbh if Miami got duncan they would never be in the postion to get lebron. they would be building around wade and Duncan for the long term. Even if Wade gets hurt Miami won't have the worst record in the league. and if it comes down to Kobe and Shaquille vs tim and
dwyane I'm taking Kobe and Shaquille.
Quit Hatin'
I'm not so sure. Duncan would've been 28 if the Spurs traded him in 2004. That's his prime we're talking about!!!
Their declines are not evenly matched. Daddy has moved closer to the rim as the panic has set in, while Duncan has moved further away in the same mode of panic in search of freedom to get his shot off.
Watching them both like this is uncomfortable to say the least.
Spurs would be in Kansas City...
The Lakers will have to shoot 35 FTs in the 4th quarter, plus another 20 in the last 6 minutes of the 3rd, of a Game 7, to get out of the first round in 2010.
Then incredibly, shoot even more FTs in later rounds.
so do the big three come together in Boston or does kg stay on the twolves and Allen on the sonics? If it happens I still see them winning in 2008. As for 2005 rematch of the 2004 finals I think Phil, Kobe, Shaquille learn to coexist and figure it out to beat the pistons. 2006 lakers vs Miami. 2007 lakers vs Miami? 2008 the spurs come out of the west with the all international team pau, Parker, Manu but lose to the celtics. 2009 is hard spurs vs magic I guess it would be a good match up spurs win it though. 2010 celtics vs spurs toss up.
Quit Hatin'
- "No problem."
- "Ace Merrill" - "Stand by Me"
2005 NBA Finals: Shaq/Kobe Lakers v. Duncan/Wade Heat would be pretty exciting, Lakers win in epic 7 games
2006 NBA Finals: Duncan/Wade Heat beat Mavericks just the same
2007 NBA Finals: Lakers add someone to put them back over the top and get another le again over Miami
2008 NBA Finals: Celtics still win over either Spurs or Mavericks, great ECF against Miami
2009 NBA Finals: Dallas makes it to back-to-back NBA Finals but lose to Miami, Duncan 4th Finals MVP
2010 NBA Finals: Finally a Spurs-Heat Finals and Spurs win their 5th le, Ginobili finally wins Finals MVP
so in essence....trading Shaq is a blessing in disguise.
Depends how you look at it. Lakers are in better position right now to compete for a few more years than if they had kept Shaq. But as of today, based on what I think would have happened, the Lakers still would have won 2 les in the past 6 seasons. And they wouldn't have had the drop-off of seasons from 2004-07.
From a championship perspective, it's a wash. From the perspective of longer term contention, it's better now. But if the Lakers don't win another championship with this core, I wouldn't say it was a blessing to trade Shaq. From the perspective of Kobe's legacy, yes, it was good for Kobe that Shaq got traded.
I guess "so far so good" works for this scenario then.
.........the best you can do is win the last game played every June.
To those that have replied, thanks. However several are not clear on the criterea. Aside from the "changes" I made, every other team remains virtually
unchanged. This means Boston gets their big 3. I thought I said this in point 7)
Interesting take. 2010 would be the Spurs 3rd le, they gave back two. Even if the Lakers win 2 les, their window is closed in 2008 though. and a drop of of 2008 forward replaces the real one of 2004-07. Still Shaq could be taking the minimum with the Lakers this summer, allowing LA to sign Bosh, but then things get to hard to follow. As you point out, the future will decide depending on whether the Lakers win another. Still, a three year window in the hypothetical is a lot less than the real window of 2008-2014 when the Lakers contracts expire.
What do you think of 2011 and on in my scenario?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
