http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ke-plans_N.htm
With all of the focus on nuclear safety (power plants that is), people tend to forget that a larger threat comes from rogue nations/organizations. Having said that, I don't find this article to be surprising at all. Drafting a plan with local government for a disaster of this type would require collaboration with a local radiation safety expert or RSO from a facility which uses or produces radiation and is regulated by the NRC. To date, none of us have been consulted regarding a contingency plan. This fact remains despite warnings by our office and those of the DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office) which is a branch of Homeland Security.
To Washington's credit, they are beginning to take our warnings seriously now as evidenced by the passage of a recent bill establishing a pipeline to revive the US Nuclear Forensics task force. Among the provisions is the establishment of a Nuclear Forensics Fellowship. I'm proud to say that I've been approached about establishing programs here in Texas. Much discussion has taken place about the lack of coordination at the DNDO as well. Substantially more planning needs to be done at the local level, but this is a sign of good things to come.
Here are some links for those interested:
The Congressional Act which got the ball rolling:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Nuclea...ttribution_Act
GAO report on lack of DNDO effectiveness:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09257.pdf
A rather lengthy but non-technical pdf of what Nuclear Forensics is:
http://cstsp.aaas.org/files/Complete.pdf
And finally, from the Homeland Security page a description of the fellowship program:
http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/careers/gc_1292317372482.shtm
Enjoy......and if it seems like I'm recruiting, it's because I am.
Bear in mind that the "free market" determines the number of hospital beds in this country.
That number is woefully inadequate when compared to what might be needed in either pandemic or major widespread emergencies like a nuclear terrorism incident.
There are a few things that I don't mind subsidizing to get more of than would be normally ecomically supported, and this is definitely one of them.
We have very little slack in the system relative to the needs of many foreseeable events.
Who said technology is better for mankind when in fact it will ultimately destroy mankind.
On a side note: Where are all these so-called Scientists of ST when dealing with real issues like radiation and Disease? They seem to pop up as soon as there is a NASA or Evolution topic but can't be found when the hits the fan.
I was watching a Do entary about "Worst Disasters" and one was about Fire and how fire has destroyed many lives and millions of acres of land.
It had the Yosemite fire the Australian fire and many others...and so on....and personally it was rather depressing to hear many firefighters and others complain to the film maker about how they have to sit back and watch these out of control fires destroy massive amounts of land.
Then right after the Disaster do entary there was a film about how Man is so advanced today and how we can now send space probes far away to out of reach areas in the galaxy to take pictures and gather samples and how space is advancing rapidly that we can now start to build communities in space and on the moon etc......you should see these scientist talking its like a 10 year old kid describing his first Xbox 360 it's an obvious infomercial to get more kids into science and get funding and that's ok it's they're time on tv but you would think with all the "technology" we seem to have and the massive bombs we possess that can wipe out a large city we could maybe put some of that knowledge into some sort of water / fire re ant bomb to extinguish large fires here on earth?
nah..... that would make to much sense, and is boring and won't get you to tune into the discovery channel. Lets not worry about the Earth burning up right now we have discovered roach eggs on Pluto that need to be examined now.
Last edited by mouse; 04-14-2011 at 11:16 AM.
You say that as if an asteroid/comet impact would not wipe out people without technology.
There was a universe before humans.
There will a universe without humans.
There will be a definite point in time where the last human being will die, and our species will cease to exist in its current form.
Hand-wavy blaming of "technology" for that misses the real point.
Quite frankly, technology and getting off our planet into the solar system and beyond offers the best long-term hope for that point in time to be much farther in the future than it might be otherwise.
Common sense would tell anyone with a 8th grade education we could have a Nuclear war before a comet arrives.
or maybe that's just how i think.
Then why put a Billion dollar telescope in space that space will be there when we are gone. There was a Universe before the Hubble there will be a Universe after the Hubble. In fact why post in the politics forum there was a Universe before DST and there will be one after ST.There was a universe before humans.
There will a universe without humans.
So lets help speed up that day?There will be a definite point in time where the last human being will die, and our species will cease to exist in its current form.
Pointing out waste of time and money should be noted in today's world where people are dying and starving.Hand-wavy blaming of "technology" for that misses the real point.
Hope? What do you care? the Universe was here before Hope and will be here well after hope. (according to you)Quite frankly, technology and getting off our planet into the solar system and beyond offers the best long-term hope for that point in time to be much farther in the future than it might be otherwise.
You started thinking?
I really should learn to pass on the softballs.
How long do they bounce off your chin to determine the softness?
Precisely.
To enable us to be more aware of our surroundings. Perhaps we can learn a thing or two that benefits mankind.
Money won't change that. Only a paradigm shift will. Humans still think tribally. Nationalism is simply on a different scale.
The scheme envisioned really amounts to keeping adequate material and resources aside to respond to disasters like this, not building more hospital beds or more burn beds per se. It would take the form of a field hospital only a bit more sophisticated. Those resources will be kept out of any potential blast zone and be immediately mobilized after any event. Of course, there isn't a way to make a facility for 100,000 folks in one location, so airborne resources would need to be employed as well. It's a real doozy to plan for, but the current situation is untenable.
100,000 victims would likely be far underestimated if there were to be a blast near any metropolitan area, IMO.
The scheme envisioned really amounts to keeping adequate material and resources aside to respond to disasters like this, not building more hospital beds or more burn beds per se. It would take the form of a field hospital only a bit more sophisticated. Those resources will be kept out of any potential blast zone and be immediately mobilized after any event. Of course, there isn't a way to make a facility for 100,000 folks in one location, so airborne resources would need to be employed as well. It's a real doozy to plan for, but the current situation is untenable.
Background information from a good article put out during the Swine Flu brewhaha:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7514969
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009..._hard_pre.html
That is the kind of that worries more than a lot of things.
I would point out that the fatalities here only represented 5% of those who would get sick. If only half of the people that got sick required medical intervention/hospitalization, that would be ... bad.Flynn estimates that a pandemic flu outbreak today would result in 80 million infected Americans. If the death rate were similar to that of the 1918 flu, then a current flu pandemic could result in 800,000 deaths in the United States.
There are only 970,000 hospital beds in the entire country, says Flynn, "so clearly we'd have to find a much different way to provide emergency care for people outside of our hospital settings."
100,000 victims in a blast would be a *severe* crisis. 500,000 - 1,000,000 would incapacitate our health system instantly, and those figures aren't that far out of what one might expect if you were to detonate a low-yield nuke in a city of 10,000,000+
This refers more to a specific detonation of a weapon, and not of an accident, that would be MUCH milder, just to be clear.
Albert Einstein went to school at the Luitpold Gymnasium in Munich, Germany, where one of his teachers told him that he would never amount to anything. He dropped out of that school when he was 16.
You have proof mankind has benefited from the Hubble? or are you "hoping" and "assuming" it will? In that case it's more of a dream or fantasy and how do you call that science? You rather spend Billions in "hopes" that you find something in space that can help us on earth? What do you hope to find?To enable us to be more aware of our surroundings. Perhaps we can learn a thing or two that benefits mankind.
Why not ask millions of people who are spending 5,000 a month on overpriced medications so they can live if they would trade that for a few Photoshopped pictures of space.Money won't change that. Only a paradigm shift will. Humans still think tribally. Nationalism is simply on a different scale.
Will this cost any money?
The scheme envisioned really amounts to keeping adequate material and resources aside to respond to disasters like this, not building more hospital beds or more burn beds per se. It would take the form of a field hospital only a bit more sophisticated. Those resources will be kept out of any potential blast zone and be immediately mobilized after any event. Of course, there isn't a way to make a facility for 100,000 folks in one location, so airborne resources would need to be employed as well. It's a real doozy
Still going for the "we never walked on the moon, etc" schtick, I see.
No, I agree with you here, and I'll bet most do since you said "could" and not "would."
So what is your solution? Aren't most the people that fit that profile in nations that we cannot go in, and food donations are stolen by the governments.
Yep, he always does.
Still going for the "we never walked on the moon, etc" schtick, I see.
Hey Mouse...
I forget. How old is the Earth?
I was never a huge "we never went too the Moon!" supporter I only pointed out some lies NASA said about Apollo 11 during all the heated debating people would read page 10-50 and assume I was.
Still going for the "we never walked on the moon, etc" schtick, I see.
If you carefully read most my postings you will see I rarely say something "will" or "did" happen 'for sure' I always leave the door open for other possibilities and discussions. People always seem to catch me on page two were I am having to defend myself and I look like I am stuck on a certain opinion when in fact it is the other way around.
I get this all the time. Seriously like when i see a talented comic on stage, or a talented artist online every time I tell them they should have an agent the always say..."will you be my agent" "Can you tell some agent about me?"So what is your solution?
I'm glad I didn't say to those people you should get a colon cleansing, who knows what they might ask me to do.
It's to the point now were I stop telling talented people how talented they are.
Aren't most the people that fit that profile in nations that we cannot go in, and food donations are stolen by the governments.
First off there are millions in the USA alone that are starving. it's not all about food it's about humans starving for education, healthcare, and shelter also. There are many in Iraq with no electricity or drinking water. We ed up they're country why not fix it. How about the Katrina victims who are still waiting for FEMA trailers?
When will the Gulf coast get cleaned? How come we don't spend money putting solar panels in all homes to wing us from Nuclear energy?
How come all these so called talented Scientist and NASA engineers haven't come up with a car that runs on the sun or water etc....
Everyday they lay off more teachers due to funding but it's all worth it that photo of Oort cloud made a great wallpaper.
About the same age as your standup material.
I really don't have an exact time or date on how old the earth is. What I do know it's not as old as the "very smart" Scientist claim it is.
It's like Velveeta... I may not tell you how it's made but I will tell you it's not real cheese.
Yeah, the 100k figure was an estimate of the maximum number of people you could triage in a given area (that's a loose term I know). The radiation triage proceeds differently than triaging flu victims though. Not everyone would receive treatment (the reasons why are for a different thread....). So the actual number casualties and the number of planned beds available to treat those casualties can differ by an order of magnitude in some cases.
So the most emergent cases come to the closest 100k bed "MASH unit", then so forth and so on. There would be multiple units since each region would have it's own.
Yes a lot of it depends on the weapon yield. For example, a 20kt weapon (which is on the order of what a terrorist organization is capable of producing themselves) would take out a over a square mile of a city. We plan for those types of incidents as well as those which would involve a blast up to 550kt, which is what was prevalent in the old Soviet nuclear arsenal.
Your estimates are by no means unreasonable, but unfortunately they can fluctuate quite a bit.
How many Einsteins were there again?
How many Bill Gates', how many Isaac Newtons, etc, etc......
Do you have any proof that any sort of current research has or will benefit mankind? The very purpose of any research is to figure that out no?
Why don't you ask the DoD to bring our troops home first? That would help our budget issues a lot more than shutting down a space telescope.
Of course. The key is that there's virtually no cost to maintain it. It's supplies, that's it. Most of the cost will involve periodic upgrades and checks on equipment. Mobile hospitals don't accrue appreciable costs until they're set up and running.
How many Buddha's,ALA's, Jesus,God's, are out there?How many Einsteins were there again?
How many Bill Gates', how many Isaac Newtons, etc, etc......
How many of anything do you need? I guess we should sit back and not protect the United states of America since according to you "how many 9/11's have we had"?
We don't need the secret service after all how many Presidents have been killed? JFK.Lincoln..ect..
We don't need to stop using nuclear energy after all how many accident's?
Chernobyl,Fukushima....
I suppose a parent who loses there child from having a pit bull in the house should not do anything since it was only one child they lost?
Your assuming there are only so many Eisenstein's and Issac Newtons because they were never discovered or made famous. For every Al Gore out there trust me there are 100s of Nbadan's you will never know of.
It's not about research it's about priorities and funds. You can look for all the black holes you want and find all the roach eggs on Saturn your hearts desire but how about finding a cure for baldness or Autism first?Do you have any proof that any sort of current research has or will benefit mankind? The very purpose of any research is to figure that out no?
If you and i was stuck on an Island would you want me to look for food and fire wood first or a new undiscovered leaf?
The Hubble went out before the Troops went to war.Why don't you ask the DoD to bring our troops home first? That would help our budget issues a lot more than shutting down a space telescope.
Solid work has a way of getting discovered. Since, according to you, people of Einsteins caliber are a dime a dozen why don't we have that cure for baldness yet?
I put it to you again, how do you know what sort of benefit space research will or will not provide? There's a lot more to be discovered in space than rocks and debris.
Before Korea, Vietman, Grenada, Somalia, etc? What about those crusades? We can ask the same question over different ages tbh.
I'd think you'd be on board with that idea.
Why cure baldness with the money wasted on a overpriced telescope every bald man in America could have many toupees.Solid work has a way of getting discovered. Since, according to you, people of Einsteins caliber are a dime a dozen why don't we have that cure for baldness yet?
I put it to you again, how do you know what sort of benefit space research will or will not provide?
The mere fact that I have to Google benefits of space research speaks volumes. How about what Space research has not given us.
1.99 a gallon Gas,cure for Cancer,Earth quake detection,Safer milk,meat,and water. Cleaner air,oil free coast lines,Collage education and healthcare regular minimum wage workers can afford.
Those are "benefits" man can use. Not some 3D color photo of Uranus.
Like what?There's a lot more to be discovered in space than rocks and debris
Before Korea, Vietman, Grenada, Somalia, etc? What about those crusades? We can ask the same question over different ages tbh.
First off gas was .35 cents - 1.99 a gallon during many of those wars.
Second we knew who we was fighting and why. unlike Iraq were we train the men to be Iraqi police during the day and they turn into the enemy by night.
What country you know of were you feed the women and kids one day just so they can strap a bomb on their bodies and kill the people trying to feed them the next day?
Point is in the other wars the people wanted and needed help. Iraq didn't ask for we occupied their country and ed it up.
Second: none of those wars cost 1 Trillion dollars.
maybe one trillion dollars is chump change to you and should be spent on some sort of new space age Windex to clean your Hubble lens.
The only idea I would be on board if maybe your NASA pals had a small town on the moon that had many jobs affordable healthcare, and radiation free milk.I'd think you'd be on board with that idea.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
