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Definitely will be if he wins a ring this year. Shouldn't even be a question. If Dirk rings, so will he, but it will be more up for debate, cause he isn't as glorified(no slight to LeBron)
Among the All Time Greats.
Allow me to explain why. Lebron already has 2 regular season MVP's in the bag. Lebron has the better career averages across the board (PPG,RPG,APG,BPG,SPG FG,TS% and PER) both in the regular season and in the playoffs. At this point, Lebron has showed that he's the best damn defender in the league and obviously the better defender than Kobe at any point of Bryant's career. Kobe's biggest advantage is his scoring but Lebron has broke every "youngest" scoring record held by Kobe.
The only missing hardware is a championship ring and a Finals MVP and once the Heat wraps this series up in 5 maybe 6 games, Kobe doesn't have any case anymore.
People may argue that Kobe has 5 to Lebron's 1, but it's not about the total amount of rings tbh. Olajuwon has 2 but people don't have a problem ranking him ahead of Kobe, am I right? IMO it's all about how the player closed a series out and at this point, Kobe wasn't spectacular in the Finals during Shaq's era and while he definitely was the man in their last 2 le run, his numbers are pretty anemic in comparison to the other greats in the Top 1-11 category.
Lebron will have a chance to put up some historic numbers and I won't be surprised if he gives us one of the most dominating NBA Finals performance ever since Shaq ir perhaps Wade's performance in 2006.
Definitely will be if he wins a ring this year. Shouldn't even be a question. If Dirk rings, so will he, but it will be more up for debate, cause he isn't as glorified(no slight to LeBron)
At my lowest, when I'm down 13 in the third quarter of a Game 7|NBA Finals and haven't had Luva give me the dutch uncle treatment yet I wish it were as easy as C R says it is with his numerous strokes upon his keyboard.
But, it ain't.
Great troll thread.
You're absolutely one of the smartest guy in this board and quite frankly you are my favorite poster of all time and honestly one of the very few reason why I even come to ST.
At my lowest, when I'm down 13 in the third quarter of a Game 7|NBA Finals and haven't had Luva give me the dutch uncle treatment yet I wish it were as easy as C R says it is with his numerous strokes upon his keyboard.
But, it ain't.
But I disagree with you.
The proof will be in the pudding soon enough. The league has never seen a talent like Lebron even the greatest players of all time ( MJ,Pip and Bird) are quick to point out this kid will be the bestest evaaar. It's time to accept that opinion will be a fact.
No way does Lebron pass Kobe for career achievements with one ring. That's laughable.
Shallow and misguided.
Those of us that know what really happened know that Kobe put up huge performances against the toughest teams the Lakers faced each year of the Lakers threepeat.
In Game 7 of the 2000 WCF against the Blazers Kobe was the MVP of that game with a tremendous all around performance 25/11/7 and guarding Pippen into a 3-10 shooting performance in what was the real NBA finals. Blazers > Pacers that year.
Kobe dominated a great Spurs team in the WCF in 2001 and was the MVP of that series in what was again the real NBA finals . Spurs > 76ers that year.
In 2002 the Lakers/Kings WCF was the real NBA finals. Kings > Nets that year. In game 7 Kobe put up 30/10/7 .
Last edited by namlook; 05-29-2011 at 01:57 PM.
If we all say that Dirk will surpass Jim when he rings, we should also be fair to LeBron. He will surpass Kobe in the pantheon of greats if he rings this year.
Wow, Venti, so many stupid threads and comments.
cully FTMFW.
Thanks Venti & IronMex. I'm glad you guys use fair logic.
@ namlook, why the not? Kareem has more individual achievements and records than Magic, but people are too quick to rank Magic ahead of him.
All time ranking is not about individual stats. It's about individual stats and team accomplishments combined.
People rank Magic over Kareem based on their Lakers careers. Any objective and knowledgeable person knows Kareem > Magic for career achievements. Magic was the greater Lakers player but Kareem had the greater career.
Last edited by namlook; 05-29-2011 at 02:40 PM.
Career-wise, obviously not, but if he wins Finals MVP and has a standout Finals, he'll have cemented a higher peak..longevity, rings and the media are Kobe's main arguments..
Lebron statistically is better than Kobe. Please refute that.
Lebron has more meaningful individual accolades and will have some more than Kobe. Please refute that.
Lebron is a one of a kind of talent. He's a first in his generation just like Magic & Larry were, like Shaq was son on and so forth. Kobe's a great compe or but his skills are dime a dozen.
Now, I agree with you that team accomplishment must be taken into consideration so that's why I said if Lebron rings once, this debate is over IMO. The number or amount of rings will have no effect here because Kobe was not even great in 3 of those 5 championships (in the Finals).
If Lebron bombs in this series, then yes, I'll take this back. but if Lebron gives us one of those 2009 NBA Playoff performance where he had a 37.1 PER then its not even a question anymore.
+1. Kinda shocked Venti's gone off the deep end since the skunker.
Wilt crapped on everyone with stats.
All time ranking is about individual accomplishments (individual stats, NBA records, number of all stars games, number of all-nba teams, number of all-defensive teams, MVPs etc.) AND how many times you win it all. Those two things go hand in hand.
Complete bull . That's just ignorant. To put your comment in perspective, Phil Jackson has said Kobe is the more skilled player compared to Jordan.
Kobe's peak was spent playing alongside Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Brian Cook
Lakerfan bringing up the Kings series. IMHO not a great series to bring up because the Lakers needed help from the refs to win the series and they had two "top 10" players all-time on the team.
No, he won't.
/thread
But isn't LeBron the biggest choker post-Jordan?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152593
ChrisRichards
Nice ass shake CR:
Why you keep bringing that up? I don't think he choked, he was injured. That's a different thing.But isn't LeBron the biggest choker post-Jordan?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152593
LeBron was always better than Kobe.
A WHOLE le?Once Lebron a le this June, he will officially surpass Kobe
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