Its probably impossible to go very far without meeting someone who knows that we have just had a crisis over the debt ceiling and that S&P has just downgraded the US credit rating but I think its safe to say that you could definitely go a long way and not meet someone who can actually explain to you what actually happened and why it mattered.
I don't see how the situation gets any better when the people in charge of selecting our leaders have no clue what is actually happening and instead have their hearts set on making decisions based on bad soundbites from cable news or internet chain letters.
Of course this isn't new. The amount of people who actually can tell you what happened in 2008 are few and far between. There are definitely several books out there that go into great detail how the financial sector flat out screwed the United States (LOL buying CDS on the MBS you just sold me - thanks Goldman!) and the rest of the world yet I have no faith in the average Joe Chalupa on the street being able to explain that to you. , I have no faith in the average registered voter being able to explain that to you.
And how do you remove ignorance on such important events when its so widespread? I think its fairly impossible when the only means of doing so is mass media and mass media is rather complicit in spreading the lies. I flipped onto CNN for 2 minutes this weekend as I was channel surfing and what do I see? Bull hype about this new era of the US being downgraded by S&P and no mention of how S&P is full of it. What I would like to see is a clip of testimony from the ratings agencies in front of congress when they said that no one should use their guidelines for any type of investing purposes.
People are too damn clueless here for anything to change. If 2008 didn't change that, this sure as isn't going to.
"when the people in charge of selecting our leaders have no clue what is actually happening"
America has the lowest voter participation rate of any of the industrial democracies.
Even if there were higher voting rates and "intelligent, adult, informed" voters, Human-Americans have been and will indefinitely be disenfranchised by Corporate-Americans and the wealthy whose votes with $$$ carrry much more weight than H-A votes.
You don't worry about what you can't control. You don't outrun the bear, you outrun everyone else. In a country of 300 million it's not hard to grab a chair before the music ends. Natural order still exists in this world, hard work gets you to the top. Anyone who disagrees hasn't learned that fact of life that you are supposed to get knocked to the ground and bloody multiple times; that's what makes you strong.
Politics is a joke. It's fun to keep up with it, but it's almost pointless. You or anyone else is not going to change the masses. Not everyone is supposed to be at the top. It's never been like that in human history, it will never be like that. Accept it.
Last edited by ManuBalboa; 08-08-2011 at 10:31 AM.
Yeah, America is ignorant, and the average American is borderline re ed
You're just now figuring this out?
Good thread for smart ass fail, tbh.
Sorry senor but I wasn't gonna read the whole thing. I agree with it, just don't see the point in making a thread about it
Basically, spot on. Get busy attaining your piece of the pie at the expense of everyone around you or wax poetic about the way it should be to your own detriment.
The system isnt going anywhere. There are only two barriers for entry. Work ethic and the importance of ethics.
If you have the former and completely lack the latter, youre going to succeed.
It's not ignorance, it's laziness. Why waste time actually informing yourself when you can just pick red team or blue team and let them do your thinking for you? All the average American needs to know is that their team is always right and responsible for everything that is good, and that the other team is always wrong and anything bad that happens is their fault.
Staying informed is hard work. It's so much easier to just wave your pom-poms and cheer your team on to sucking less than the other team.
I believe people are getting more informed because of the last 2-3 years. Everyone saw what happened last November. Huge swing and more to come. With that said I wish they would ban all parties.
Agree 100%. Looking at the general landscape, you would think critical thinking gives you headaches.
So on the D-Day anniversary 2 young employees (in their 20's) asked my wife what D-Day was. After she explained one of them asked her "So who won WWII?".
That's a true story. The problem is even worse than you think it is.
Couldn't disagree more Jack. The part that I have bolded is what has increased in the last 2-3 years. Not actual research and thought as you suggest.
I would include the OP and a lot of the posters that posted in this thread.
Sure SNP has a record where it should be questioned. But to go on here an charade as a Populist demagogue claiming you know what's best for the people and this evil ratings agency is insolent, is quite entertaining when you're just being a shill for the Whitehouse.
Did SNP just decide to set these parameters by which the US should abide by in order to keep it's ratings arbitrarily, or is it maybe, just maybe, the largest purchaser of our debt (China) has been telling us for a good while that we should address our debt.
But what was important 5 years ago, what Manny and his ilk claimed was one of GW's errors was fiscal irresponsibility.
It wasn't long ago that the Democrats on having a historical midterm rise in 06 were elected because the Republicans were wrecking the economy and jacking up deficits. The Democrats promised to be fiscaly responsible, Barack Obama then later said that even rasing the issue of the debt ceiling needing to be raised was a sign of mismanagement.
That was your very own Barrack Hussein Obama.
Listen to these clowns every one of you and wake up.
1. They love to on Trickle Down economics ( wealth will trickle down to the poor, if we let the rich keep more of their money), yet at the same time believe that bailouts to the rich helped the poor! Try not to laugh..
2. They maintain the position that we should raise spending during a recession.... what's their position on spending during good times? Don't expect anything different.
3. They, the white house and the progressives are so busy using ad hominem attacks against people that question their spending habits for example ( Republicans, Libertarians, Cons utionalist, Buisiness men, tea party, SNP, Moody's, etc) because if they were to focus on spreading the message that we need to spend more to gain fiscal control it wouldn't fly with anyone who is not a political junkie, has a job, and manages their own finances.
4. Essentially, their plan is to use the federal reserve as an American Express card with no limit, crossing their fingers that the rest of the world won't find out what a huge scam our dollar is, and our economy has become.
There's your ignorance.
This.
Right or wrong, this.
I'd agree with pretty much all of this except you imply Republicans are innocent on the matter (maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how I read it). From 2001-2008, Republicans were spending irresponsibly and stupidly just like the Democrats have been since 2009. The only way there'll ever be a real solution is if the 2 party system dies, which isn't happening anytime soon, but it's why I'm voting for a 3rd party candidate regardless of whether or not I agree with him.
brah, I am no Wild Chodebrah. It's definately the republicans at fault too.
The tea party movement suggest otherwise.
I told my old man this one day - when the goes down, we need to make sure we have as much money as the rich and as many guns as the poor.
Maybe initially, and they definitely have an ideology, but it seems strange that they are willing to commit national suicide with the nation in order to get it done. This comes full circle back to the original point that people are so uneducated that they are willing to A) manufacture a crisis and B) be willing to use that crisis to the detriment of the nation (and their stated goals).
The tea party wants deficit reduction (I thought) and they turned down (twice) a $4T dollar plan to do just that. This "crisis" bared their collective asses and showed everyone that they are not about deficit reduction, they are about obstruction and ever lower taxes (even if it means that we will have to pay higher taxes later to get it). Basically the tea party is no different than what we have had over the last 40-50 years (outside of a brief moment from the mid to late 90's).
Tea Party = Democrat = Republican = I want what I want now and I don't give a that my kids and grandkids are going to pay for it.
I am sorry if I jumped around a bit but this pisses me off. I have a kid (and another on the way). I am 31, so this is starting to be my fault too. How am I supposed to explain to them that I allowed this country to stick them with a bill because we were too set in our ways. The Dems and Repubs were finally doing something right (I don't care why, as long as the right thing was being done) and the Tea Party decided to cry in the corner and it up.
What plan was that?they turned down (twice) a $4T dollar plan to do just that.
It's good to know nothing bad happened after 2008.
Thanks Manny
Time to start buying guns...
It's good to know nothing bad happened before 2008.
Thanks Darrin.
Grand Bargain is one, and if you don't believe either obama or boehner that they had something going then you can find a summary flyer for the second one here: Link
I am surprised that you haven't heard of either one of these. Not paying attention over the last several weeks, eh????
Wild spending went on. Then got accelerated under Obama.
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