In the regular season for PER:
Dirk's is 23.73 #15 while Bird's is 23.50 #19
In the playoffs for PER
Dirk is at 24.75 #7 while Bird is a at 21.41 #27
7. Dirk Nowitzki 24.75
27. Larry Bird* 21.41
In the season for WS/PER 48Luck_The_Fakers_
Dirk is #12 while Bird is #19
12. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2137
19. Larry Bird* 0.2032
In the playoffs Dirk is #5 in WS/PER 48 while Bird is #35Luck_The_Fakers_
5. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2067
35. Larry Bird* 0.1731
Correct advance stats fan?
Excellent points. I love Dirk's game but even he knows he aint better than Larry freaking Bird. I think his playoff run for one season, was up there with any of Bird's but bird dominated the NBA from 1981-1986 ...In the regular season for PER:
Dirk's is 23.73 #15 while Bird's is 23.50 #19
In the playoffs for PER
Dirk is at 24.75 #7 while Bird is a at 21.41 #27
7. Dirk Nowitzki 24.75
27. Larry Bird* 21.41
In the season for WS/PER 48Luck_The_Fakers_
Dirk is #12 while Bird is #19
12. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2137
19. Larry Bird* 0.2032
In the playoffs Dirk is #5 in WS/PER 48 while Bird is #35Luck_The_Fakers_
5. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2067
35. Larry Bird* 0.1731
Correct advance stats fan?
Obvious troll is obvious
Dirk is great.
But Bird is superior.
Bird absolutely s on Dirk
thats a stretch
... I see what you did here ......
Bird is the superior Aryan
Manu > Drexler
Reg season:
Manu: PER-21.7 WS/48-215 Drexler: PER-21.1 WS/48-173
Playoffs:
Manu: PER-20.6 WS/48-181 Drexler: PER-19.7 WS/48-134
Ginobili > Pippen
Reg season:
Manu: PER-21.7 WS/48-215 Pippen: PER-18.6 WS/48-146
Playoffs:
Manu: PER-20.6 WS/48-181 Pippen: PER-18.4 WS/48-140
CQFD
Dirk>Bird is like saying kobe>jordan.
Even Dirk knows Bird is better.
Pay no attention to this thread. Made by a butthurt Kobe fan who's angry his hero has relatively low advanced stats compared to other all-time greats, so he cherry picked this comparison in hopes that it would debunk PER and other advanced stats.
Not sure who the OP is but advanced stats done ned to be debunked. They are stats you should take all stats fdor what they are, a tool to enhance what you see with your eyes, not replace what is clear to see ...
It backfired, 'cause current players tend to have better advanced stats than their counterparts from older days except for Kobe.
I agree with you. The reason I bring up advanced stats a lot is because I believe them to be more reliable than per game stats when evaluating a player statistically. Per game stats would suggest that Elgin Baylor is a better rebounder than Kevin Garnett. I think rebound rate/percentage is the better stat to go by in this case.
Another example. Say you're a fanboy of Wilt and you're trying to convince me he was a better rebounder at 35 than a prime Kevin Garnett. You cite Wilt's 1972 season when he averaged 16.3 rebounds per game. The closest KG has ever been to that mark was in '04 when pulled down 14 a game. In the "old days" this would've been the end of the discussion. You would've proven your case. But when we look at the two player's respective rebound percentage for the years in question, we discover they're exactly the same, despite Wilt averaging 2 more boards a game. And in the '05 season, KG had a 20.3 rebound percentage, even though he averaged half a rebound less per game, so this would suggest a prime KG was indeed better on the glass than a 35 year old Wilt.
Of course there's no subs ute for the "eye test," but we also have to remember that perception is often clouded by bias and this is where stats, moreso advanced stats, can aid us into refining our opinions so they're more objective.
This would be a good point you made, except for the fact you actually believe Manu > Drex and Pip.
mvp
dirk: 1
bird: 3
finals mvp
dirk: 1
bird: 2
nba championships
dirk: 1
bird: 3
i love dirk, but he needs more hardware in this comparison. bump this thread when dirk has at least 2 finals mvp awards and 3 'ships like bird. dirk is the best european and maybe international player of all-time though, the michael jordan of europe. but even if one day dirk has 3 championships people in the us will still favor bird because he's american and they still think of germans as nazis. but i agree, right now bird > dirk no question.
Manu's PER is boosted because of the limited minutes he usually plays. Even in the playoffs, he would average around 30-33 min a game whereas Clyde and Pippen would go routinely go 40+.
I'm with Lefty. WTH. Dirk is one of the greats, but Larry Legend is a LEGEND. He had to play against Magic's Showtime Lakers not the dregs of the league that exist today. Larry is King - you can't compare, plus he was a great defender, trash talker and made his teammates better. Larry is one of the top few of all time and he has the resume to prove it.
Agreed. Someone needs to put Hollinger in his place. Too many intangibles and variables to factor in that are exclusive to a player's era.
methinks many responses to this thread were made without realizing the OP's point
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